On “tha twittahs” a few days ago, I questioned how it was possible that Pitbull could still be relevant in any way shape or form and T-Pain can’t get a song on the radio. As was expected, folks rained down upon me (no pr0n, R. Kelly, or Mother Nature) the fact that Jay-Z killed T-Pain’s career with his track “D.O.A. (Death of Autotune)”.
Poppycock. Jay-Z didn’t kill T-Pain’s career. Changing musical tastes did. Jay-Z just made the right song at the right time to take credit for the demise. Think about this. T-Pain came onto the scene in 2005 with both “I’m Sprung” and “I’m In Luv (With A Stripper)”. For FOUR solid years T-Pain was EVERYWHERE on radio. “D.O.A” didn’t even come out until the second half of 2009 well after T-Pain was already on the decline; fact is, that’s a long time to sell karaoke for anybody. Yet, Jay-Z is awarded the victory for murking auto-tune and simultaneously T-Pain’s livelihood (though Mr. Pinnedherazzdown did release and sell albums since then, just not nearly as successfully as his 2005-2008 run). And it’s a false victory. Jay-Z just put the stamp on public opinion. Period.
And in contrast, 50 Cent absolutely did murder Ja Rule’s career. I’ll bet Ja has been constructing a voodoo doll in 50′s likeness since the moment he went to jail.
But Jay-Z killing auto-tune (1) is first up in the line of not quite victories wrongly decided by public opinion.
Here are a few others.
2. LL Cool J besting Canibus in their “battle”
Make no mistake, Bus’ “2nd Round Knockout” was by far leagues better than LL Cool J’s response record “The Ripper Strikes Back”. Canibus lost OVERALL because his career sucked. First he blamed Wyclef for creating the the dismal Can-I-Bus album, which was actually terrible. After that travashamockery, people kind of assumed that because Canibus career sucked despite his abilities, that LL Cool J – who has released more clunkers of albums than dope ones, let’s be real – couldn’t possibly have lost. Even now I’ve got somebody telling me that LL won that battle. He did not. But the people spoke and it was so. Even if it wasn’t.
3. Jay-Z vs Nas
Look, I liked “Ether”, the sheer venom in it made it a worthwhile listen. And it was the resurrection of Nasty. For that I’m happy. But the ONLY reason Jay “lost” that battle (he didn’t) was because he released “Super Ugly” and then tried to take it back. John Coffey. That’s the ONLY reason. “The Takeover” is SUCH a better song overall. And Jay didn’t resort to rote disses like “you’re gay” and “you suck” blah blah blah…he hit Nas where it hurt…with facts. And with only one vesre. But because “Super Ugly” comes out and people were happy to hear Nas so inspired, Jay “lost” that battle to Nas. Never happened.
4. The NAACP versus The n-word
Oh wait…the NAACP didn’t win did it, public opinion or otherwise. My bad. Those n-words were trippin.
5. The McRib’s existence vs common sense
Look, there is no motherf*cking reason why The McRib should exist. I’m fairly certain that even the marketing staff at McDonald’s is baffled by this one. But for some reason, despite the fact that its 1) not a rib; 2) is mystery meat; and 3) comes with pickles and onions; every time they drop the McRib, people lose their sh*t and buy them at an alarming rate making health care practioners who run HMOs happy. So somehow, the McRib continues its reign of terror on our arteries (kind of like the Baconator) because the people have created a false sense of demand for a product that nobody in their right mind needs. See also: The McGriddle. If McDonald’s isn’t the devil, then I don’t know what is. But the McRib stays around anyway. Because we have willed it so. Shame on you.
Alright, those are a few examples of false victories decided by the court of public opinion. What else do you have? VSB, let’s call out the fakers, posers, and bullishers.
And yes…I fully expect to get a gang of comments disagreeing about Jay vs. Nas. You may disagree with me. You will be wrong.
WHAT!
-VSB P aka THE ARSONIST aka MR. DO YOU WANT A VICTORY! aka GIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRL HE A 3
I love the fact that 50cent wasn’t able to end Rick Ross’s career. He tried and failed miserably. By the way, Does McDonald’s still use the ‘pink slime’ in their burgers?
Thanks, for resolving the site issues. I thought that I was going to have to find a new website to read today while working:).
Peace!!!!!!!!
hell, i thought i was going to have to find a new site to read today. lol. these things happen.
i think if this was 2003…or if 2009 was 2003, 50 would have definitely deaded Rick Ross’s career.
Me too!!! I felt like I was going through withdrawals.
“By the way, Does McDonald’s still use the ‘pink slime’ in their burgers?”
I actually meant to look up whether Mickey D’s officially responded to these claims, but I got lazy. Blame it on, um… McDonald’s itis. Yeah, that.
I think they just brought back the pink slime fairly recently.
Ninjas stay making up ish all the time. I guess that’s where this Jay-Z destroyed Autotone narrative came from. From Jay’s own mouth:
http://www.sohh.com/2009/06/jay-z_on_t-pains_unexpect.html
He didn’t mean any harm, he was just embracing the record…I’m not saying autotune is wack…I’m not saying that, I just put a soundtrack to it, I put a voice to it. If people wasn’t feeling this way then the record wouldn’t work the way it would…The culture is bigger than the politics.
So there it is, the movement came first, then Jay-Z spoke on it.
men lie, women lie, quotes don’t like most days.
Men vs Women. We all know who wins…. (Women). *drops mic*
men.
WRONG. We have poon.
Poon >>>>> Peen
while i do agree. poon gives you a disadvantage.
emotions.
False. Emotions are an advantage. When you deal with them.
BOOM.
Expressing emotions is not the same as dealing with them.
POW
” Expressing emotions is not the same as dealing with them.”
Game…blouses…actually shirts in this case…
It’s kind of funny, poon is indeed more valuable than peen. But men are far greater than our peens whereas women barely surpass the value of their poon, that’s why the gap between a regular man and a famous man, is much bigger than the gap between a regular woman and a famous woman.
Great point.
Peen is only made great when it acquires poon. Which is greater, the land or the seed? Women are the land and you ninjas are just seeds. Bwahahahaha!
Obviously you’ve never heard of Jesus.
My logic is unassailable, Peen holder!
Can you give an example of this? (gap btwn great man and average man and great woman average woman)
…But men have power…Boo yah!!!!!
True you have poon…but there’s more than 3 billion versions of poon. If there were 3 billion Benzs in the world, they would all be dirt cheap and common. However, the truth is that the illusion of poon-power is a consequence of all the lies that men tell women everyday.
Poon always wins. Sorry. Thanks for playing.
Wins what exactly?
Everything. Poon wins by comvincing Peen that physical strength and a limited ability to emote and communicate are powers. Then Poon convinces Peen that he should use his “powers” to serve Poon. Peen cannot refuse cause more than anything, Peen wants Poon.
I have to say that I think 50 Cent gets a lot of credit for ending Ja Rule’s career the same way Jay-Z got credit for destroying Auto tone. In both cases I think the people were tired of something first, and were just waiting for someone to be the face of the movement.
Outside of the people he signed, 50 hasn’t been able to derail a single career since then (except his own). His attempts on Rick Ross (who seemed like he was an even easier target than Ja Rule) failed miserably.
LL on the other hand, NEVER won a single lyrical battle, but won EVERY career war. No one who ever battled LL, lost lyrically, but no one who battled LL ever had an upward career trajectory. Kool Moe Dee, Wyclef, Canibus, hell you might even add Ice-T (musically) – all of them effectively out of the music business.
i dont know. Ja Rule was flying pretty high when 50 cent came onto the scene with Wanksta.
look at it this way…Ja Rule’s album The Last Temptation came out in Nov 2002…and went platinum. he still had top 10 singles and was nominated for Grammy and won a source award in 2003. like dude was STILL. making dough and doing his thing. “wanksta” was on the 8 Mile soundtrack in 2002 and did the slow burn but eventually everybody started laughing at Ja cuz he couldn’t retaliate properly and then poof vamoose son of a b*tch, he’s out of there.
i think Ja was still winning when 50 cent ja rule’d him.
I agree. People were still rocking to Ja. I, for one, was not one of them. After his first single, I just could not. Him and Ashanti, two of the most untalented artists to ever get lucky and sign a deal, started coupling up and it just made for fantastically bad music.
If for no other reason than he killed Ja’s career I will forever love 50 cent. Oh…and I’m glad he didn’t kill Rick Reezy’s career as well. I actually like him.
You need more people….
Show of hands–
Who didn’t sing along to “Always On Time” or “Foolish” when they were on the radio circa 2001? Keep in mind that this was before Pandora and such, when radio was king….
I’ll wait…
Yeah but the Last Temptation was less successful than “Pain Is Love”. Yeah he did numbers, but he did less of them in (at least in initial sales) because people were already saying he was too commercial, he sang-rapped too much, and that he was trying to be Tupac.
I don’t know how much steam the Tupac argument had, but as for going commercial and sing rapping?
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1077/is_6_57/ai_84344864/
http://www.theboombox.com/2011/04/29/ja-rule-apologizes-for-leading-the-singing-rap-movement/
i honestly feel like if Ja Rule had come up with one more sing songy as hook song he would still been successful. especially since 50 ended up doing teh same sh*t, just not singing about love…
I bring this same fact up during EVERY 50 Cent v. Rule argument.
I don’t think 50 Cent destroyed Ja Rule’s career- Ja Rule destroyed Ja Rule’s career.
I wonder why LL never answered MC Shan’s “Beater Biter”.
I meant “beat biter” #effmyspelling.
It’s a good question. Maybe he just didn’t think he was established enough… though it should be noted, MC Shan’s career is over as well…
…coincidence? LOL ok I’m kidding that everything to do with KRS not LL.
another strange fact is that Marey Marl went on to produce records for almost everyone Shan battled.
Further adding insult to injury is that they sold more than anything he did for MC Shan (See: the triple platinum “Mama Said Knock You Out” by LL Cool J.
Which is probably why Marley Marl worked with them LOL. Deep down inside, I just feel like he could see the writing on the wall, that he was “backing the wrong horse”. I ain’t mad at him, he made the right choice in hindsight.
It’s funny though, while Marley made classic records in the Juice Crew, his biggest hits came from outside of the collective (See: Lords Of The Underground and Da Youngstas).
I’ve read a few interviews with cats from the Juice Crew saying Marley was ganking them too. #soyousayyouwannabeinshowbusiness
The ability to move properly vs. “fashion”. Guys with their pants sagged so low that they have to walk from side to side with theyre hips like a cowboy to keep them from fallin down.
we call that hood skiing.
LOL, hood skiing. Perfection.
*their
Wait, so we’re NOT supposed to like TPain anymore?
*Record-stopping scratch sound on my digital copy of Chopped and Screwed
… yeah, like… I knew that and 3hit.
Pitbull makes me angry. Very angry. I’ll pay Maxwell whatever whenever whomever to make him go away. I know he can do it. Canibus was the most wasted excuse for a rap career and talent ever found. I liked him and wanted him to win but apparently he didn’t get the memo that you can’t be a dick until you get to the top. Not on your way up there. Game, blouses… I mean LL.
It’s time for the NAACP to pick a new battle. Saying the n-word is so late aughts. They should be railing against the word ninja now or something. Black nerds are en vogue now. The day of the Geechie is upon us. (I have no point)
I have never tasted the McRib. Or the McGriddle. Or one of those BK “International” chicken sammich doodads. I’ve also never had a Big Mac so I’m not so much healthy as I am greasy-food sheltered.
s/n: What in da hell happened to the site last night? Y’all forgot to pay the light bill or something? Was it just my interwebs? I came by about 12:15-ish and the lights were off and there was all kinds of street parking available. Did not feel right.
we had some technical difficultues. but they’s married nawh!
lol. we good.
what nutjob said LL beat Canibus?
ive had arguments with peopel who tried to tell me this. real talk. i was on a long distance car ride and we argued about that one beef for over an hour of the 3 hour trip.
Note to self: No road trips with Panama.
my road trip convos are epic.
once on the way from Atlanta to Huntsville, AL…me and my boys got into an argument about whether or not Stevie Wonder had any vocal range. yeah yeah he can sing…but range? none.
this lasted for four hours b/c we didn’t have any Stevie CDs on us to verify.
On my recent road trip I got to listen to teenage girls go batshytcrazy over Justin Bieber’s new song, Boyfriend, and One Directions, What makes you beautiful. Before that was Katy Perry’s, California Gurls. Is it a wonder I like to travel alone? lol
Umm recently had to listen to listen to Diggy Simmons album on repeat.(then had to pretend I wasn’t into it because everybody who was into it was a kid)
I leave my 3 yr old home alone so I don’t have to be subjected to the cautionary tale of Humpety Dumpety for the billionth time…
(before y’all call Rick Ross or one of Fiddy’s bodyguards — another example of Fiddy’s hypocrisy btdubbs– I don’t really leave her home alone, but I’ve dreamt about it…many many many times)
Over the past few weeks, I’ve passed through this site occasionally, and although I’ve found much of the commentary to be compelling, I’ve hesitated to comment on the various subjects (due mostly, to laziness) but, today, good sir, you’ve left me no choice. Anyone who believes Stevie Wonder doesn’t have vocal range, doesn’t know music. Although his chord progressions are somewhat deceptive, and may lead the listener to believe he’s not doig much, don’t be fooled, playboy. He’s got range.
See: Do I Do
Love Light In Flight
If you Really Love Me
These 3 Words
Part Time Lover
You Haven’t Done Nothin’
There’s a reason so few vocalists do SW remakes. Range.
That Is All. Back to lurking. Duces
Full disclosure: I grew up 5 blocks from LL Cool J, and I used to see him all the time when he was in town visiting his grandmother. Dude has always been mad cool to the old hood.
That said, LL won with Canibus. LL is the Robert Horry of hip-hop: he might be average to mediocre, but he has a knack of hitting those big shots when he needs to. Which makes the crap he puts out sound worse. It’s like “wait…didn’t you put out…I mean…WTF???!!!”
LL ain’t hit a big shot in eons.
Saying LL is average is blasphemous. LL has 3 of the top rap albums of all times. I think we in 2012 try to judge LL from 2012′s lense instead of the context of his time. I wouldn’t be wasting time rapping either if I was getting CSI money. What’s the point?
that would be well and good but HE keeps deciding to rap. and further…what are those 3 top rap albums of all time??
Mama Said Knock You Out okay…but what are other two top rap albums of all time??? I assume you’re including Bigger and Deffer and Mr. Smith. and i think those are both debateable. highly debateable.
It aint like you’re talking Ice Cube with the run of AmeriKKKa’s Most WAtned, Death Certificate, and The Predator.
The fact that you didn’t say his first album “Radio” makes your whole premise suspect.
LL is average. If he took whatever serum Micheal Jackson wanted and stayed 16 and kept rappin like that then yeah I’d say he was ok but he grew up and became that greasy lipped bastard with a kangol. After Pink Cookies (no homo) dropped, thumbs down
I only see him as Agent Sam Hannah of NCIS now. I can’t acknowledge any of the Headsprungesque f***ery.
Part of the reason Nas gets credit for the victory is that the whole beef started when Jay ripped the dead presidents line and built a whole (hit) song around it without any hat-tips in his direction. The whole “you made it a hot line, I made it a hot song” stuff was baloney.
eh…i think thats debateable as to why Nas gets credit. for one, why would that matter. it’s hip-hop. hell, even on “Takeover” he acknowledges that Illmatic was a hot album. i dont think Nas took exception to that. i suppose i could be wrong.
i think folks give Nas the victory b/c of Super Ugly and Jay looking petty. which means that Nas got to him. It’s impossible for anybody to convince me that “ether” was better than “takeover”. was it more emotional? yes. Nas was definitely upset. Jay was just stating facts.
Ok but its waaay easier to kill somebody with facts. It is what it is so u dont have to be creative. What jay did was just mean. Since nas didnt have any facts to say about jigga, he had to kill him in the abstract. Thats why nas gets my vote.
so you think its better to just lob random ass “you’re gay” statements that sound mad but really dont amount ot sh*t?
For the longest time I thought Nas won, hell I was team Nas when the beef was going on but when I listen to the records of that beef era. I think Jay definitely won. Like you said and I agree, Ether was a great track because of the venom not really because of the substance, if it was a playground diss battle it was like the kid with a bad retort when you called them out on some factual ish.
When it comes to Rap Battles, I think its not only lyrically winning that matters, its also about how your career progresses from there and how you can take advantage of being the right person at the right time. Nas is one of the greatest lyricists out there but Jay-Z is like the president of hip hop today so yeah, Jigga won.
I’m sorry, but when a song title becomes a verb, that song won. I still know people who says so-and-so Ethered someone. No one ever Super-Uglies someone. And that is Why Nas won.
this might be the best argument, but that just means Nas knows how to title sh*t. like say “hiphop is dead” another good name where he didn’t do much of sh*t to really back up the statement.
also, ether becoming a verb has as much to do with us as it has to do with Nas. good argument, but i cant give it to him on that alone.
hell, name one true stinging line in that song. Jay only had to respond b/c the streets are like everybody else…”ooooooooooh Nas got him!!!” even though he didn’t.
Jay had a sensitive thug moment.
Jay definitely won on paper but Nas won in the hearts and minds of hip hop heads. More than anything else everybody was just happy to have Nas back, closer to Illmatic form. Takeover ETHERS Ether anyday. I think Jay overshot. He was REALLY battling, like in real life. He wanted to bury Nas. You can’t bury Nas though. He’s a legend who unfortunately he does too good of a job burying himself SMH. Nas hardest reality-based punch in Ether was calling Jay-z a Stan. Dame Dash has gone on record saying that Jay-z has always had a weird fascination with Nas. A lot of Jay-z’s early stuff is CLEARLY Nas influenced. BTW this is coming from a dude that thinks that Jay-z is the greatest rapper of all time.
Also, there’s the whole Rockafella comment which few people outside of New York got the meaning of. The Rockafella Jay-Z named his label after really was a kingpin who died of AIDS and of whom it came out he was gay. Yeah, it was a “you’re gay” joke, but it was a damn creative one, and factually accurate.
” i think folks give Nas the victory b/c of Super Ugly and Jay looking petty. which means that Nas got to him”
You’re onto something, but Todd’s pointing out some undeniably relevant points.
“Put it together, I rock h*es yall rock fellas.”
See that lil history lesson from Todd actually makes this line even iller than I initially thought it was.
As someone else said Jigga won on paper but it was OBVIOUS that despite starting the beef Jay was clearly hurt by the buzz and respect that Ether brought Nas (the opposite of what Jay was hoping for by starting the battle) as well as the embarrasment it brought him. He resorted to punching harder (to the point that he sounded petty and childish in an otherwise solid diss “Super Ugly”) and exposing himself to be emotionally sensitive. In short, Jay wrote better bars and brought up more relevant facts, but Nas won. Perception/public approval is strange like that. It’s so weird to me how the reason Nas won was so subtle yet so obvious. I didn’t know Dame said that about Jay being infatuated with Nas but I got that feeling too. Reminds me of the movie Gangster Number 1. Jay’s the deranged sociopath and Nas is Freddie Mays. (Crosses fingers and hopes at least one person gets the reference)
eh…even knowing the facts behind that stuff doesn’t make it anything more than….”you’re gay”.
further, that whole named after a hustler in BK shit that died of AIDs and turned out gay is urban legend too.
@ Petey- I hear you, but “I f*cked your slutty *ss baby mama” is no more mature than calling someone gay in a creative manner…Hip hop is childish cause it’s run by egotistical dudes tryna be more popular than each other lol
Never knew that, now Ether makes a whole lot more sense.
^^^What Todd said…
“Because you-know-who did you-know-what with you-know-who
But let’s keep that between me and you (for now)”
In my head that pretty much deaded the whole beef. I’m on the left coast so I didn’t really here Super Ugly (the Jigga version), but pretty much nothing I heard from Nas’ side stuck in my mind like that.
Mcdonalds needs their azz beat. Mcrib jus goes to show that u can literally cover a piece of sh*t in bbq sauce & ppl will eat it. Their steak& egg bagel scares me too. Its not the texture of any “steak” ive ever had. And more grease then the bp oil spill. Gross. I’ll take a mango smoothie & keep it movin.
people need jesus.
easter.
http://www.theawl.com/2011/11/a-conspiracy-of-hogs-the-mcrib-as-arbitrage
This explains the McRib. In short, they can only afford to do with when pork prices are below a certain point. Otherwise, they’d either have to lose a couple bucks a sandwich or jack up the prices something crazy.
I always enjoy reading your posts. Your perspective is always fresh, interesting and insightful.
Carry on!
“5. The McRib’s existence vs common sense”
This one is TOO baffling. I’ve never had the McRib (meant to taste it before I swore off the swine but didn’t… care enough I guess), but it looks like it tastes like raccoon knees and gout. But, for those who have actually had it (which… at least ONE person has to come here and admit they love it given the numbers of ninjas who go batsh*t for this sammich), please tell me what it REALLY tastes like.
i feel like you could eat the mcrib and still not be eating swine. i’m not altogether even convinced that its actual meat.
High fructose corn syrup laced bbq sauce covered azzhole.
I don’t think there is nary an oink in a McRib. Some folks on twitter suggested tonton or werewolf but not swine.
There were also some mentions of synthetic blend of Yeti and Alpaca meat, I personally think there is a feral colony of Chupacabras on some secluded wild life preserve that find their way into a McRib or two… but that’s just a theory.
The McRib is basically a non-meat meat orgy.
“The McRib is basically a non-meat meat orgy.”
More like non-meat/synthetic-meat/undesirable meat gang bang. Not quit the same thing.
I can roll with that. Jay-Z and the Illuminati raise them in conjunction with the Dharma Initiative.
Aw, I miss Lost.
I’ve never had it and I don’t get the hype about it. I looks nasty, fake and like something that would cause your arteries to explode upon intake.
McRib is made from unicorn meat and glazed with crushed leprechaun
PJ…so you know I was daydreaming all last week about what you would write this week and wear in the next Ask A Black Man episode and then I log on this morning and was like jigga what!?!?!?
Don’t ever scare me like that again… I mean today is Easter Monday mannnnnn.
*heart flutters*
lol. dont blame me…i didn’t do it.
*krust the klown voice*
Can somebody give me a simpleton man’s breakdown about what Mr. Panama is talking about?! Please and thank you
Jay did you resurrect?! Muah!!!!!
no.
@ PJ
??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
^%&*&)(*&(*&**_
I am all kinds of confused.
@ Jay,
what or whom is confusing you?! The random shourr ourrrs, Panama’s ensuing 2nd language?!
@ Panama,
…………………………………………..//
Mami…me and you both but its ok because I like when a man can educate me on the ways of the world and stuff and I can act all damsel in distress and flip my hurr and bat my eyes and make comments like “oh really” “wow your brilliant PJ”…
in my case ma, I did not understand nuffin, I already have my boo Jay to bat my eyelids too. lol!
“Can somebody give me a simpleton man’s breakdown about what Mr. Panama is talking about?!”
Along with converting Rick Santorum to being any kind of sh*t, this is impossible.
slow. mutha f!cking clap on the jay-z nas thing
Ive said it since the beginning concerning Takeover an Ether
ive never had a mcrib but unfortunately i have noticed that (at least in the south) the people do seem to love that joint. Why I dont know. but even in high school the school lunch version of the mcrib was a favorite
po tpain. smh. I dont mind the autotune and DOA is one of jays worst joints…
slow. mutha f!cking clap on the jay-z nas thing
Ive said it since the beginning concerning Takeover an Ether
they don’t hear me tho.
I think I died a short death, I didn’t realize how much I lurk on this site until today. I thought I was going to have to actually do work while at work.
How about The Internet vs Verysmartbrothas. com This morning I thought the Internet won and finally shut you guys down. Thank goodness this wasn’t the case. Please don’t ever scare me like that again.
repeat after me…we will not lose.
My mom loves The McRib so I don’t think it’s pork. Maybe pork like or pork flavored but not real swine.
How about manicures vs everyday life? I pay a pretty penny for my manicure(my top girly expense)…don’t last 48hrs in my day to day.
Girl boxers/pum poom poom shorts vs bikini-As a woman with ample backside, a bikini turns into a g-string from step one. Team poom poom shorts!!
USELESS WITHOUT PICTURES!
I think it’s pork-flavored hot dog meat pressed into rib form.
Slavery is only synonymous with a certain colored people, please unslave my comment, it ain’t cute thank you!
i feel like you ask to be freed everyday.
Panama,
I wouldn’t if my posts would post DIRECTLY….am I on your shid list?!
nope. i dont have one. apparently wordpress doesn’t mess with you though lol
this makes me think of the almost-false-victory of Nas’ Hip-Hop is Dead v. Um… hip-hop? In certain circles, that almost sparked a movement… then you had ninja’s like Luda claiming “it ain’t dead it just lives in the south” blah blah. I think it was supposed to be a battle that wasn’t really a battle but everyone wanted it to be a battle. My local radio station had a discussion with callers about whether or not hip-hop had died daily over a two week span. I think it was agreed upon that he did it for publicity and the world moved on…
I think it was more against the crappier Southern music than hip-hop in general. Though I agree with Nas with this one line “Oh I they like me–in my white tee
You can’t ice me, we here for life B!”
exactly…ninjas were hating on the South…while MAKING SOUTHERN SOUNDING MUSIC.
except Nas who just makse terrible sounding music
Oh my goodness! Nas didn’t some out in a shiny suit while touring with a retinue of flashing lights, big booty dancers and an ill touring band! He must suck by definition.
*Walks in the room* Sup y’all…. *Sets up Beta max and Mashitashi TV and presses play.* So you act like nas never made You owe me, Hate me now(loved the song and the video was pure ignorance[this ninja had baby tigers in the club]) or Oochie Wally?
Panama, I take it you really don’t like Nasir…
i do like Nas. i just think his catalog is damn near horrendous. Illmatic is obviously a great great great album. arguably greatest hiphop album. no argument from me there.
i’m definitely a bigger Jay, Biggie, Pac….fan
Nas makes better tracks. Jay Z has a better track record. You get consistency with Jay and occasional brilliance with Nas. Jay is the type of MC who got all B’s in school. With Nas, it’s either an A+ or a C-. With that said, takeover > ether. And Canibus clearly won the battle when it comes to lyrics. If you like LL and don’t care about lyrical ability, then say that and keep it moving. But to say LL won the battle lyrically? To quote Grant Hill from that anti homophobia NBA ad: You’re better than that.
Man, I been telling people about that Jay/Nas beef for the longest. Jay did A VERSE. Nas did a song and barely scratched Jay. Nas does have the occasional feature these days. Something has to pay Kelis’ alimony.
except he’s tryign to skip the country now to avoid paying over 6 mil in taxes too.
SMH, after Wesley and Redd Foxx ninjas still don’t learn.
Yeah I dont know about Jay-Z Killing Autotune, I think we were just oversaturated with T-Pain, he was in every song for almost 3 years. Cant be doing the same thing over and over again in the music industry. You gotta reinvent yourself constantly in the music business.
Canibus, lots of talent but just a mess.
On another note, I know we are all obligated to hate on Pitbull but people, he is a perfect example of reinventing oneself. Dude kind of invented reggaeton along with Daddy Yankee and co. When ish got stale, he took a break and came back strong with some house/dance music type ish that sells internationally. Say what you want but Pitbull is a hustla, Daddy Yankee probably kicking himself in the foot somewhere. lol. And you know with the right amount of liquor you be bobbing your head to some “international love”
Agreed. Say what you will about his lyricism, but he’s the new Master P in terms of sheer marketing genius.
i don’t pitbull but he also doesnt bring anythign to the table. im just more amazed at his relevance, however “pop” it may be.
@ Sir Fariku
ma broda you have spoken oo!!!! YES to PITBULLLLLLLLLLL-is he the gasolina dude?!
No. Gasolina is daddy yankee.
Pitbull did “Culo” the ubiquitious dance hit that had a lil Jon version and even some remix with Vybz Kartel in it
1. Agreed.
2. Agreed. Agreed Canibus’ career failed. Agreed he killed in the battle.
3. Nas won. It may not curl all the way over why he won, but he did. Jay won career-wise, and marriage-wise. Nas’s “Ether” won whether fair or unfair because ninjas was waiting for Nas to come with “some kind of heat”. Fair or not fair, “some kind of heat” by a respected lyricist who is the underdog and got a bit more pull in the underground (not necesarily successful or with the hottest songs) beats the guy who is consistently and commercially good & successful. I can go on, but I’ll stop. This debate is best in a conversation. Jay-o Feloney came at Jay too. It was good song, but no one cared.
The others I am not concerned about.
Since you brought it up, 50 has not killed everyone’s career. He did not kill Rick Ross’ or The Game’s. That G-Unot campaign was kinda’ funny. Plus, I was not feeling a black man coming up with any clothing lable called Gorilla Unit (Not guerilla, either!).
Oh and in the battle of “red” vs. grape. Red wins every.time.
Agreed on “red”. I hate grape flavor.
Jay-o Feloney came at Jay too.
Who HASN’T come at Jay-z at this point…?
Glad to see y’all paid your light bill.
“Alright, those are a few examples of false victories decided by the court of public opinion. What else do you have? VSB, let’s call out the fakers, posers, and bullishers.”
I don’t even know where to go with this but um…
1. Bluebell ice cream vs. store brand ice cream
So Blue Bell has the higher butter fat content. Fine. But Publix and Winn-Dixie make better tasting store-brand ice cream. I don’t know what the hell is in it. Crack maybe. People swear by BlueBull but I’d buy Publix homemade vanilla over BlueBell ice cream all day. BlueBell sucks.
2. David vs. Tami
He got kicked off the show and vilified, but she was clearly laughing. If you know what I’m talking about, you’re old.
3. Beyonce vs. B00ty
Because they made this record Beyonce has become the go-to standard for mainstream media referring to butts and being “b00ty”licious (arguably J-lo is referenced as often). I ain’t saying she’s not bad, but she does not have a “donk” as they say around these parts*. This lie about her “thickness” has been built up too far.
*She may be b00tylicious NOW- I know some folks get body after having a baby- and she may have been back when they first came out- she was bigger- but I’m talking about since that song came out.
I have to agree. She’s slimmed herself down quite a bit, and is no where near the shape she was when she first became a solo artist.
“It wasn’t not funny!”
Ok, so numerically, I’m old (relative to others on VSB).
My bad…didn’t mean to post a reply here. My reply goes with the David/Tami “Real World” flashback.
I can’t watch Real World anymore. That whole franchise has gotten pretty ridiculous. It’s like they have alcohol IVs. What happened to quality reality TV??
WIP we are >>>>here<<<<
Oh how I long for the days of the old school reality tv. It was actually Real World the season in NO that got me hooked and the rest is history.
“2. David vs. Tami
He got kicked off the show and vilified, but she was clearly laughing. If you know what I’m talking about, you’re old.”
Yeah, I’m old- don’t judge me, LMAO!!
But in all fairness, Beth instigated that whole thing by calling David a racist andd having Tami going along with it. So in the later years, Beth made herself look bad due to her two-timing back stabbing ways. So, David and Tami came out the winners…sort of…
Sorry, I meant “rapist”.
yeah Beth was a total asshole. Tami was too.
wow, you guys are super old… but somehow I know what you’re talking about.
Damn it.
So I see I ain’t the only one who watched Real World back in the day. Where is Melissa?!?!? That little asian afro-merican chick was too much for me.
You are so right about Publix ice-cream because it definitely has to have “that thang” in it…I mean seriously their vanilla ice-cream is the boom!!!!
Hello. And I had to repent for what I did to that Winn Dixie-brand birthday cake ice cream. I haven’t purchase BlueBell in forever.
Here’s what Melissa’s nutty self has been up to. She was a tragic mulatto if there ever was one, LOL!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melissa_Howard
I am old and I def remember the David/Tami fiasco. That hieffer was laughing and Beth blew it out of proportion. I see Tami is still as dirty as ever.
I’m convinced that the McRib is is nothing but a chemical cesspool of BHT, Hydrolzyed everything, monosodium glutamate and street drugs. I bet that’s why people crave it because there’s crack in ‘em
I would tell you what’s really into it, but as a former McDonald’s employee in the long distant past, I have been sworn to secrecy by the McDonald’s Corporation.
Thanks Skateboard for putting a stake in the Jay vs Nas “battle.” Although I am a self proclaimed Jay Z stan, I have been telling people for years that Jay actually won. While “Ether” is a dope song he really didn’t say anything that wasn’t debatable at best. While Jay stated seething facts. My fave line “Yeah, I samples your voice. You was loosing it wrong. You made it a hot song. And you wasn’t getting coin you was gettin ufcked then. I know who I paid God, Search Light Publishing.” OUCH!!!
“While “Ether†is a dope song he really didn’t say anything that wasn’t debatable at best.”
Come on fam, he said Rockefeller died of AIDS! LMAO!!!
lol @Perverted Alchemist, I guess you are correct there. But I don’t think that would “hurt” as much as some of the other jabs thrown.
1) Agreed. Jay-Z just hopped on the wave at the right time.
2) Wait, you can’t have it both ways. Either he won or he lost. You can’t say he won…and then he lost because his career sucked.
3) Nas won that battle dog. Sorry. Now, I would say this was the best hip-hop battle in the history of hip-hop, and what Jay-Z put out would have won 95% of rap beefs. It’s just that Ether is a classic of the beef genre. It wasn’t what he said, but how he put it together. Plus he did have some facts in there.
4) Call me when the NAACP isn’t a club of fogies patting themselves on the back for outlasting the Black Panthers and all their other competitors from the Civil Rights Movement. Oh, and they’re light, bright, damn near White leader makes them look like the bougie color-struck fogies they are.
5) http://www.theawl.com/2011/11/a-conspiracy-of-hogs-the-mcrib-as-arbitrage would explain it’s random appearance. In terms of the taste, it’s one of those foods that’s so fake that it’s kinda good anyway. Think of it as the Red Pop or Blue Raspberry Soda of fast food. It’s vaguely related to swine, but it’s vague relation makes it yummy. I’m not a McRib stan, but I know that there are whole websites dedicated to finding McRib sandwiches. That tells ya something there.
My personal take on the Jay-z/Nas battle is that Nas was the underdog. He was Joe Frazier and he got that one punch in that swole up Ali’s jaw and won. But Ali went on to become the most recognized face in the world. Also in the end Jay-z doesn’t care enough about what the public thinks to have won that battle. Like him claiming to dumb down his lyrics for commercial success, an act I will never forgive him for, what he was aiming for wasn’t neccessarily what we thought he should be aiming for. To all of the people that say that Nas won, think about how Jay-z felt when he heard Ether and think about how Nas felt when he heard Super-Ugly and Takeover. It HAD to sting Nas more because it was true. “Throwing comdoms in your baby seat…”, Nas getting raped for his publishing, his hit or miss career, supposedly Jay had video of him and Carmen(Nas’s baby’s mom). Jay-z is ugly but I’m sure he’s pretty de-sensitized to hearing that by now. Take the public out of the equation, make it a battle between two men, and Jay-z has a unanimous, undisputed victory.
+10
* 2
Take the public out of the equation, make it a battle between two men, and Jay-z has a unanimous, undisputed victory.
#score
I’m gonna have to say all the hype surrounding Miami once they acquired James and Bosh. Say what you want, but they won’t win this year either.
I still remember the pep rally the Heat threw after they signed Lebron James. I was wondering who’s brilliant idea that was. I will say this. No one will dare attempt such a thing for another 50 years at least. It was THAT bad. That they messed around and lost after that just makes it worse.
T- Pain’s “5 o’clock in the mornin’” was one of the biggest songs of any genre of music in 2011. Look it up.
It really was super successful. Probably more than its sample.
But he wasn’t singing the hook like he was in previous years… that was all Lily Allen. Different story.
What I need to do is recruit an army of naturally thick black women to end the careers of all these urban “models” with chicken legs and but huge fake azzes. That sh*t annoys me to no end. I wish someone would tell these scalleywags that if you don’t have the thick thighs and such to match, the azz looks ridiculous (in a bad way). I can see if you had thick legs but no azz, then yea I’ll give you a pass. As long as you don’t go TOO big. These heauxs don’t get it though.
In fact, I blame n*ggas. The thirsty dudes who be all over females no matter how excruciatingly irregular her body looks thanks to her cheap implants. In fact, it’s because of n*ggas that sh*t like this happens:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_FBS7j6lOsTc/SdRFwjKOowI/AAAAAAAADPY/3-tO2Zm3fI0/s400/Pebblez.jpg
Oh, and I think she also got MORE implants put in after this…
That pic was…nasty.
Yay, I get a pass! #Teambigthighslittless
Also, Diddy gave T-Pain points on his album Last Train to Paris. That album was also huge.
Regardless of who won between Jay and Nas, Nasir Jones gained far more from it than Jay possible could have.
LL had a serious argument as the greatest of all time between 85 and 96. Also, he has FAR more hits than misses. He’s one of the pioneers of multisyllabic rhyme in hip hop, except he never gets credit because he’s a light-skint lady lover.
i dont know if i agree tha tLL has more hits than misses. cuz his life since 96 has been a series of misses.
FAR more? No. But you’re broadly right. It’s just his missed aren’t just alright, but generally SUCK. That’s what makes it so bad.
How come no one mentioned Bad Boy vs. Death Row? Everyone thought Death Row was killing Bad Boy in sales and artists, but ask yourself: Which one is still around today?
let’s be honest with ourselves…Puffy is around way more than Bad Boy is. it only still exists b/c puffy is alive. it aint like that label is uber successful either. Puffy is successful.
but yeah…Bad Boy might def have a leg up on Death Row just for the R&B half of things. 112, Total, Faith. <—-ran the 90s
Don’t forget Carl Thomas in the early 2000′s.
Nah see, you mentioned Total, and I have to say that was probably the worst marketing jobs Puffy ever did (no Lox & no Craig Mack). They had a number one single on a soundtrack with 3 remixes and they couldn’t get an LP out within 12 months of that. The fact that he couldn’t capitalize on their buzz made me question Puff as a producer. 112, Faith, and Mary did things, but he definitely pushed his favorites over legitimate artists that could have had longer careers.
Um, Total went as far as they could with their complete lack of talent. When you sound wack ON THE RECORD, that’s an accomplishment.
Neither? I mean Diddy won against Suge Knight, but that’s about as much that came from that. Considering Diddy is batting .000 for Bad Boy artists not named Biggie Smalls it’s a really hollow victory.
To be fair though, he had Black Rob, G. Dep and Shyne (I can’t believe I just mentioned his name, LMAO!!!!)
& Loon. Whoa.
We can’t refer to him as Loon anymore. Out of respect for his religious beliefs, we have to call him Amir Muhadith.
I always wondered what in the hell is going on at Bad Boy to make people change their religious beliefs and confess to murders? LMAO!!!
I’m not a big fan of the Shiny Suit Man, but let’s keep it 100. The man had a second wave with Black Rob, G-Dep, Loon, Shyne and that whole bunch. Suge Knights what sh1t out of luck once Dr. Dre left.
Lebron James is Better than Kobe Bryant..
Which is bullsh@t to me, and it’s only because of Kobe’s bit%ha@@ness and arrogance, people have been trying to hand LeBron the “best player in the game” title ever since he came in to the league. If you go off of sheer production Kobe is still miles ahead of Lebron if not for the killer instinct alone, besides LeBron is too nice, Kobe is a straight up a@@hole but a ruthless assassain on the ball court
“Which is bullsh@t to me, and it’s only because of Kobe’s bit%ha@@ness and arrogance, people have been trying to hand LeBron the “best player in the game†title ever since he came in to the league.”
LeBron doesn’t display bit%ha@@ness and arrogance as well, tho? LOL
He does but Kobe’s been doing it for a lot longer and his diva qualities are more epic than Lebron’s. I’m a fan of the “basketball player” Kobe Bryant, not the “person” Kobe Bryant and I think that he is still the best player in the league.
Agreed. What you said is why I think the Kobe System commercials were spot on for me.
I’m not even a Laker fan, but people call Kobe arrogant, yet is it really arrogance if it’s true? So what he doesn’t have a winning personality. Being nice didn’t get him all those rings. Plus, Kobe is paid to win. Who cares if he doesn’t smile or blow kisses while he does it?
And there is NO comparison between Kobe and LeBron. I don’t recall Kobe leaving the Lakers once Shaq left. In fact, he managed to win on his own. Lebron had to take his talents to South Beach, and still hasn’t produced.
I think that being an a$$hole in sports, at least as far as competitiveness goes, is an asset. As evidence I’d like to introduce you all to one of the biggest a$$holes in sports history…..
Michael Jordan
But he had the whole media hype thing going for him, plus he didn’t live in the “information age”. But by all accounts Jordan was and is an arrogant d*ck. I think that players today are WAAAAAY too concerned with their image, I’m looking at you Lebron. Thats why I like Durant. They say hes just a good kid but nobody REALLY knows except for those that REALLY know him. He seems just quiet and private enough to keep it under wraps if he is. He’s not always looking to,for, and at the camera **cough**Lebron, Dwight Howard** cough. He focuses on BASKETBALL. And he’s ice cold.
I agree with your “players today are WAAAAAY too concerned with their image” comment, everybody wabts to be liked, just look at Dwight Howard for proof, he wants to be liked and doesn’t want to be thought of as a bad guy. Players like Jordan and Kobe are like you can call me an a@@hole but call me an a@@hole with multiple champions and a bank account full of Ben Franks.
Re: Jay vs. Nas (the never ending debate).
I like both artists, but there’s no way anyone is going to have me believe that Takeover went harder than Ether. It just didn’t. On the surface, it may sound like Jay had facts going in his favor but when you dig a little deeper, you find out different:
“From Nasty Nas to Esco’s trash….fell from top-ten to not mentioned at all….”
False. This only sounds good if you don’t know any better. At the time Takeover record dropped, Nas’ last record was Nastradamus. Even as a huge Nas fan I have no problems admitting that this album was straight butkus BUT it did go Platinum (in a month). So while Nas’s career was definitely on the decline, he was still hotter than most rappers out.
“Til’ your bodyguards ‘Oochie-Wally’ verse better than yours….”
Subjective. But for clarity, this whole song was trash so does it really matter?
“I showed you your first tec on tour with Large Professor”
Rumor. Absent Nas screaming out “OH EM GEE THIS IS MY FIRST TIME SEEING A TEC EVAR” we have no idea how Jay would even know this.
“I know who I paid God, Serch Llite Publishing.”
False. Refers to MC Serch’s publishing company. Problem with this bar is even Serch himself said it was lie (Nas did get paid). So either Jay made some very wrong assumptions or was just blatantly lying.
“That’s a one hot album every ten year average”
Subjective, and kind of pointless in the context of a rap battle. If you going to say someone is wack because they can’t recreate their first album (a certified classic), then by his own standard, Jay must be wack too. Name me one of his albums that is better than or even on par with Reasonable Doubt.
I’ll wait.
“Nigga I know you well, all the stolen jewels”
Rumor. No idea if it’s true or not and even if it is, YOU didn’t rob him so it’s irrelevant (see: Cypress Hill vs. Ice Cube).
So basically Jay’s whole verse boils down to is “you dress stupid, you’re wack and I smashed your babymoms” to Nas’s “you’re wack, you look like J.J. Evans, and stop biting Biggie’s rhymes.” So, for me at least, it comes down to a matter of flow and that’s where Jay lost. IMO, Takeover was ‘eh’ but Nas RIPPED Ether.
But I do agree that ‘Bis destroyed LL. Only reason LL “won” is because he had the bigger name, and industry backing. Only thing Canibus had was Wyclef (LOL).
it absolutely did. lol.
And Serch absolutely said that he did get paid first and he cleared the sample off of the Dead President’s sample. Just b/c Nas ended up getting money from Serch possibly doesnt obscure the poitn that in order to clear the sample, Jay didn’t have to pay Nas for it.
I also think that poitning out that Nas is a failed rapper (at that point) b/c hes unable to put out a dope album, regardless of whether or not he could recreate Illmatic (not sure anybody would expect that) is fair game. Plus, he acknowledges that Illmatic is hot…it aint even hating..that shit is true.
But that’s standard protocol for the music industry. Hell, Jay-Z doesn’t own all of his publishing either so it’s very possible (and likely) that he’s been sampled before and didn’t get paid for it.
When someone samples an artist, they don’t get a check cut to them directly (obviously, unless they own the publishing). It’s another one of those things on the song that sounded good, but if you know better, you know that he wasn’t saying anything substantive.
Panama, put the joint down and back away from the computer…
L.L didn’t destroy Canibus? Wyclef ruined it? Stop man, just stop.
Here’s the deal, in a Rap battle it always goes to the judges. It’s always a decision. Why? Because the rappers continue to release diss tracks long after the public has decided who won (see: Ja rule, Benzino, MC Eiht)
Therefore it isnt he who punches last, but he who punches best. In the case of Cool James VS Private Canibus…… canibus….. you are NOT the father! LL sonned that dude on the first verse man. Everything else was a wrap after that.
“You don’t wanna borrow that, you wanna idolize
And you don’t wanna make me mad n….. you wanna socalize”
Now Canibus got with him on 2nd rd KO (especially the Farrakhan line, that was dope) But it was too late. LL had already won the match. Basically because he’s mean for no good reason (lol) then sonned him on top of that…… thus getting in his head. The judges called the match and it was over. Though both of them kept releasing diss tracks, it was already over.
Canibus was the “next hot ish” at the time. Everybody was hyping him up. After that LL verse, it was done. The judges lost respect for him. And respect is what a rap battle is all about.
Oh, and Nas VS Jay-z is a tie for the same reason. It looked like Jay had him on points, but you’ve got to knock the champ out to take his spot. And the Judges considered Nas the champ going in to the fight (Jay didn’t realize that until it was too late) So, split decision.
hmm…no.
Come on man…. If the LL battle never happened….He still would have shat on Wycleff? He still would have joined the Army? :-/ What, Eminem made him do it? Garbage albums you say? I contend that without the pressure of the LL battle he would have been content to continuously release albums the did “Alcoholics” level numbers (Which -plus touring- is enough to keep you in a new Benzo every couple of years) and guest appearances on east Coast/T-Dot albums.
I agree on the McRib though. The Hot Sauce/Taste ratio is very high for that food product.
When I think about it, Jay lost to the Mobb too. He got at Prodigy with the music, but I remember the Mobb being on stage at the Source awards calling him out (he was all types “soft” and “bitches”).
Jay was nominated, but nowhere to be found.
I know folks love Jay. I really do. Hell Obama and any half bougie person loves him. But Ether was an ass whopping. It was an ass whopping an Jay knows it, otherwise there would have been no need for” Superugly.” Otherwise he wouldnt have made up with Nas in a smart but see-through attempt to bring his greatest competition and enemy closer.
The beauty in Ether is not the production. Takeover with the Doors sample wins all day. Play the beats side by side – no comparison. But folks forget where Hip Hop fans were and how they were feeling about Jay at the time….and Nas touched on all the things that folks picked up on Jay. The Joe Camel line…..where I’m from folks were saying that at the time. The line about not getting girls because of his looks….I know all the ladies would saddle up with the dude now but I sure did hear hilarious things like this said from “Reasonable Doubts” on up to “The Blueprint.” The Rockafella/AIDS line…..I knew the story and me and the homies lost it when we heard this. The line about hating women….in the aftermath of Big Pimpin (you see how confessional Jay is now about this stuff) was a classic body blow. And the line about Eminem killing him on his own record…..come on! Who wasn’t saying that after hearing “Renegade?” Don’t let me get into the lines about Biggie.
When takeover came out I remember being out with a bunch of drunk friends riding in a car and all of us saying pretty much the same thing” Damn , Jay is locking this #it down. No comeback at all for Nas!” Everyone was saying the same thing. When Either came out I was with the same drunk homies feeling kind of bad for Nas even trying to respond. By the end of that song he had mouths open with his dissection, everyone calling in to the radio station and saying he “ethered” Jay…..and the flood gates of folks taking shots at Jay opened up after that.
Jay’s nice with his. God MC, right? Whatever. But he got his ass handed to him by an MC who had more to lose than him and an ear still to the street.
And the Blueprint 3 was garbage. I’ll play that last Nas album all day that fluff but maybe it’s where I am at right now. Ether.
That what is looks like to me. At the time ‘Ether’ dropped Jay was still looking untouchable, and many of his fans don’t want to admit that Nas came out of nowhere and knocked him on his a**. ALL he literally could do after that was talk about Carmen. He had nothing else.
False victories wrongly decided by public opinion?
How about Al Gore vs George W Bush. The popular vote went for Gore, but Bush was the final winner. (I almost typed “actual winner,” then “legitimate winner,” but neither one of those sounded quite right. LOL
Also, Gore couldn’t drop a decent diss track to save his life.
As a lady who loves Cool James, I have to say that he has a history of being destroyed on wax. Even though Kool Moe Dee hasn’t been heard from since shoulder pads were hot, he definitely won the lyrical battle aginst LL with “Let’s Go.” He said something to along the lines of “hung ‘em on your neck and rocked your bells…you wanna beat me, it’s gonna take a mircale – you got a lock on my jock like a pitbull.” I believe that LL came back with “Jack the Ripper,” but it was too little too late.
That Booty Wurk go hard though!
Disclosure: I’m a Hov guy.
Ether was by far a better record than Takeover.