Dating, Relationships, & Sex, Theory & Essay

Why Cheaters “Win” At Relationships

“Running a mile in under five minutes and thirty seconds”

This was my response to an interview question about the most difficult thing I’ve done as an adult; a “safe” answer that 1) allowed me to segue into some faux self-depreciating discussion about my star-crossed college basketball career (I started off with “Oh yeah. I played ball in college a long, long, long time ago.” It’s not a game with my faux self-depreciation game.), and 2) was a lie.

Ok, it wasn’t a total lie. The 5:30 mile — a somewhat pointless feat of mental and physical anguish my college coach forced us to complete before we were allowed to practice — still haunts me. While others have nightmares about death or falling or getting chased by groups of especially irascible midgets with full clown costumes, thoughts of track shoes and stopwatches give me cold sweats.

But, while running the mile was definitely daunting, it’s nowhere near as difficult as breaking up with a woman — a completely draconian task I’ve (unfortunately) had to do twice.

What makes breaking up with a woman so hard for a man to do? Well, it’s always difficult to give bad news to a person you care about. More importantly, though, much of a man’s life (and much of a man’s “success” in life) is predicated on convincing women we find attractive to say “Yes.” — “Yes, you can have my number,” “Yes, we can have sex,” “Yes, you’re allowed to cum there” and so on. This ongoing socialization has left most of us somewhat ill-equipped to say “No” to a woman we’re even marginally physically attracted to and completely ill-equipped to deal with the guilt-ridden emotional fallout of telling a woman “You know those things you do — the things I practically begged you to do when you still weren’t sure if you wanted to do them to me? Well, I no longer want to do them with you. Sorry!”

But, when I reflect on each of those failed relationships, I can’t help but come back to this one act, an act that could have saved each and prevented my break-up anguish if I’d been willing to do it.

Cheat.

Yup, you read that correctly. The general sense of relationship melancholy preceding each of the break-ups? Solved if I spiced things up by occasionally stepping out. The feeling of “This isn’t working. Maybe I need to end this and explore other options” the aforementioned relationship melancholy eventually leads to? Not an issue if I decided to explore other options while still attempting to work things out. The inevitable frustration with the idea of monogamy? Cured if I completely eschew the entire notion.

This issue goes well beyond me. Even the oft-cited reluctance of many “good guys” — and “good guys” in this sense are eligible men interested in healthy and monogamous relationships — to commit can partially be traced back to how most good guys feel about cheating. Basically, you can argue that it takes longer for a person invested in monogamy to commit because they understand that commitment to be somewhat final, whereas a person not concerned with monogamy will “commit” at anytime to anyone.

In fact, if I’d been willing to cheat — and assuming I was either clever enough to never get caught or with someone willing to forgive my repeated transgressions –  not only would I have “saved” myself from having to break-up with a woman, I’d probably be married (with children) right now.

I’m assuming these last couple paragraphs — which can be interpreted as pro-cheating — comes as a surprise to those familiar with my work. From “five completely selfish reasons why i’ve never cheated” — an entry listing, well, five completely selfish reasons why I’ve never cheated on a mate — to “35 reasons why he cheated,” I’ve made no secret my absolute abhorrence for cheating.

That feeling hasn’t changed. I still abhor cheating, but I’ve began to wonder if this abhorrence is less due to what I thought was some moral code than just plain ole envy wrapped in a layer of self-righteousness. Maybe I just hate the fact that while I’ve had to deal with relationship acrimony and break-up anguish, cheaters seem to take the “easy” way out.

I mean, if you’re spending countless hours and sleepless nights cramming for a final exam while your roommate has a cheat sheet with all the answers, how soon before you either start hating that roommate or just say “F*ck it” and ask him to make you a copy?

Who knows? But, do you know why I lied when asked to name the most difficult thing I’ve done as an adult? I knew the real answer would lead to a conversation I just wasn’t interested in having, and I wasn’t prepared to share what it would say about me.

Hmm. Kind of reminds me of the reasoning behind the lie we tell ourselves when saying “Cheaters never win.”

—The Champ

Damon Young

Damon Young is the editor-in-chief of VSB. He is also a contributing editor for EBONY.com. He resides in Pittsburgh, and he really likes pancakes.

  • http://racialicious.com A Boy Named Art

    I dunno. I still think it depends: What are we defining as a “win” here?

    Figure it like this: My roommate’s ex-gf cheated on him for three months straight before she was caught. Within a year, she’d been just about ostracized from their entire shared social circle and started dating the kind of guy I can only describe as a Pirate Douche. I see her around some clubs these days, and there’s definitely something … gone from her eyes. I wonder what she’d say if I asked her whether it was worth it – and whether her answer would be honest.

    • http://twitter.com/#!/legitimate_soul legitimate_soul

      ^Truth. I have seen a guy be ostracized by the group for being the “cheater” and no one wants to be a pariah or the outcast.

    • Cris Until I Find a Clever Name

      ok…Pirate Douche? Now that’s an interesting analogy right there! LOL

      And homegirl would probably tear up if you asked her that because she already knows what she did was foul

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

      “I dunno. I still think it depends: What are we defining as a “win” here?”

      pirate douches notwithstanding, I’m really referring to cheaters who cheat successfully — those who dont get caught

      • Imperfect

        Do “successful” cheaters really exist? I mean, even if we don’t know, we always know.

        • IET

          “Do “successful” cheaters really exist?”

          I think it depends on how we look at the term “cheat.” If you’re in an open relationship then you are doing what some people would call “cheating.” You’re simply not lying about it.

          So then “successful” doesn’t make sense because you’ve flipped the paradigm of monogamous relationships to open. It’s all semantics really.

          • Yoles

            @IET

            cheat (cht)
            v. cheat·ed, cheat·ing, cheats
            v.tr.
            1. To deceive by trickery; swindle: cheated customers by overcharging them for purchases.
            2. To deprive by trickery; defraud: cheated them of their land.
            3. To mislead; fool: illusions that cheat the eye.
            4. To elude; escape: cheat death.
            v.intr.
            1. To act dishonestly; practice fraud.
            2. To violate rules deliberately, as in a game: was accused of cheating at cards.
            3. Informal To be sexually unfaithful: cheat on a spouse.
            4. Baseball To position oneself closer to a certain area than is normal or expected: The shortstop cheated toward second base.
            n.
            1. An act of cheating; a fraud or swindle.
            2. One who cheats; a swindler.
            3. A computer application, password, or disallowed technique used to advance to a higher skill level in a computer video game.
            4. Law Fraudulent acquisition of another’s property.

            So by the definition of cheating, persons in an open relationship are NOT cheating on each other…

        • whykendra

          yes, in 2 ways:

          1. they never get caught

          2. they get caught but their SO stays with them and they reap the same relationship benefits they would have had they never cheated

        • kamakula

          Impossible question to answer. By definition, if we knew of a successful cheater, then that means said person has been found out.

          As Donald Rumsfeld or Gin Rummy would say, there are known knowns, known unknowns and unknown unknowns. This is one of those things that will always remain an unknown unknown.

      • http://twitter.com/fixedwater fixedwater

        I don’t know, I think in the sense that cheaters win at not having the relationship meloncholy – ok, yes, they win. But they lose at so much more – money (extra honey means extra bread) time (QT spent with each, strategizing to avoid getting caught, etc.) quality (its difficult to get 100% out of a relationship that you are only giving 30% attention to).

        • whykendra

          if they have some strategic planning skills they could develop a way to get the most desirable relationship benefits from various people. utilize the benefit singularly from whoever exhibits them the best without actually having to commit full time to any of them.

  • http://www.twitter.com/Stank_0 Stank_0

    I think men have a hard time for a few reasons. Women are generally the ones that decide if the relationship will begin so the end is generally at their discretion.

    Men are generally flexible within the confines of said relationship. It generally takes extreme external stimuli for us to act. So being the initiator is kind of foreign.

    This is just a thought but I don’t think men are sufficiently cruel enough. We are used to being rejected b/c of societal expectations that men make the first move. So gettin shot down becomes something you endure.

    I haven’t witnessed sober men just dismiss an “attractive” woman before. They’ll tap dance around the fact that they aren’t feeling you but they won’t say it.

    • niksmit

      That tap dancing and flexibility stuff sounds pretty cruel to me. Methinks the word you’re looking for here is maturity or maybe integrity. Folks who cheat because they’re too cowardly to break up are lacking both.

      • Cris Until I Find a Clever Name

        As someone who was cheated on in her last relationship, I must MUST co-sign this statement: Folks who cheat because they’re too cowardly to break up are lacking both.

      • whykendra

        i always got the impressions that cheaters wanted to have their cake and eat it too. how often do they actually want to dump the girl they’redating? in most scenarios ive seen, they wanted both the relationship and the side play.

    • sol

      that tap-dances is just emotionally cheating. did they still fuck up if they imagined all the possibilities in their mind? what about if they not only allowed themselves to fantasize but still found excuses to be around the person in question to give their fantasies more fuel? tap-dancing is just another game and some times it can do more to turn you on than old fashioned sexing.

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

      “Men are generally flexible within the confines of said relationship. It generally takes extreme external stimuli for us to act. So being the initiator is kind of foreign.”

      what usually happens is called “the iceberg effect.” basically, while the woman who’s getting broken up with might just see the surface, there’s a ton of sh*t underwater that’s been lurking there for a minute; stuff that was kept beneath the surface until it got so big that it couldn’t stay there anymore.

      • http://twitter.com/fixedwater fixedwater

        That can usually be said of any break up. It usually is the straw-camel scenario for us, women too.

        • kamakula

          Or sometimes it’s the camel breaking the straw’s back. . .

    • sunshyne84

      um maybe for you…

      Committed guys certainly have no problem initiating things with other women aka me.
      I don’t know about women starting the relationship either. We are usually ready before you and waiting for you to give us the word and make it official.

  • Leila

    “A person invested in monogamy to commit because they understand that commitment to be somewhat final, whereas a person not concerned with monogamy will “commit” at anytime to anyone”

    Co-sign with this. I see it all of the time. I have one guy friend who believes that he’s single until he’s married and doesn’t feel obligated to be faithful in relationships and easily goes from girlfriend to girlfriend…..Monogamy is tough. I wouldn’t cheat, but can see why people do…

    • sol

      i don’t believe in monogamy for myself…. at this point in time…. i’m 21 yrs old, and while most of my peers are dreaming about that fairy tale sig other that will come along and bamn-true-love-for-life to occur are so busy in this cycle of committing and grieving that they’re not really living their lives romantically.

      Maybe I’m wrong but true love is a fairy tale, no matter when or where you meet the ‘special’ person there are things you will have to settle on for them. This ties into your point because frankly how are you going to commit to one person when you know you’re in a unique time in your life when you can meet hundreds of people just as good for you. The right person will come along at the right time… and the right time (to me at least) is after you’ve at least discovered all you have to offer.

      Monogamy is just another form of security, just like life insurance and car insurance only its love insurance. People spend years from their lives cultivating a relationship that may or may not work out just so when they’re old and gray they know somebody can still love them.

      • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

        “i don’t believe in monogamy for myself…. at this point in time…. i’m 21 yrs old, and while most of my peers are dreaming about that fairy tale sig other that will come along and bamn-true-love-for-life to occur are so busy in this cycle of committing and grieving that they’re not really living their lives romantically”

        are you male or female?

      • WIP

        At 21, I think seeking monogamy is probably a waste of time. Those ready to settle down are few and far between. Unless you’re at BYU or something, I think you have the right idea.

        • Classy6ft5

          “Unless you’re at BYU or something, ”

          lol…you dumb.

    • http://bit.ly/hzDdDA I’ll give it a try

      Me and some of my coworkers were having that whole “if you’re not married, your single” discussion last week. And one of my married male coworkers pointed out “its not called adultery until AFTER you get married.”

      As someone who’s been cheated on before, I thought cheating was the absolute worse thing you could do in a relationship. Now the older I get, I’m trying to understand the reason moreso than the action.

    • LSQ

      I feel both sides of this argument, but as a man, until I have made a vow (doesn’t have to be marriage, just a promise will do), it ain’t cheating.
      Also, the definition of cheating truly should get a re-work. (is it fluid swapping, chex, heavy flirting, what???)

      • http://www.kineticculture.com NubianEmpress

        @LSQ

        #cosign…your word is your word, because at the end of the day a marriage is a relationship. I think cheating is definitely fluid swapping…all that emotional sh*t is a pre-cursor to other things, so its not as bad but will still get you a side eye.

      • whykendra

        cheating is whatever your SO says it is. and your continued participation in the relationship without negotiating the terms means you agree to them. so if she is okay with you kissing other people then that is not cheating. and the same in reverse, is it okay if she flirts relentlessly with other dudes? if yes, then you’re good (because she def does).

        @NubianEmpress also, emotional stuff does not get a side eye. it loses one. as in ill cut your face. to me (should be most) having an emotional relationship with someone else is ten times worse then chex.

        • http://www.kineticculture.com NubianEmpress

          @whykendra

          you just scared the sh*t out of me…..lol. i like it though.

    • Deeds

      @Leila, but in regards to that argument, why would I trust that person to be my husband. If they’ve proven themselves untrustworthy, why would someone marry them.

      • WIP

        Exactly. Being married doesn’t matter. If you’ve agreed not to screw, kiss, lick, suck other people and you do it anyway, that’s cheating. It’s pretty-straight forward.

  • Mo-VSS

    So I don’t think cheaters stay winning. I guess it depends on what one considers winning. If winning is not being monogamous or leaving a trail of hurt behind, then sure. But if winning is openness and honesty then no, they don’t. I used to cheat and it was not fun when u see the hurt it causes others.

    It seems like cheaters win cuz they “get their cake and eat it to,” but in the long run it doesn’t Pam out that way. Especially not when you actually care about someone. While cheating isn’t the ultimate sin in my book, the effects can be extreme to the injured party.

    o guess if you ate talking about just a relationship thats one thing. bit a marriage…nope, cheating is too much of a risk to take lightly. House, kids…all that can be lost in an instant messing around w/stray kitty. So, again “winning” depends on what one wants out of life and that particular situation. Cheating may be a temporary solution to keep one content but rarely does of end well when folks find out.(and don’t they always find out???)

    • Mo-VSS

      Where is the edit button when you need it. Smh!

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

      “It seems like cheaters win cuz they “get their cake and eat it to,” but in the long run it doesn’t Pam out that way. Especially not when you actually care about someone. While cheating isn’t the ultimate sin in my book, the effects can be extreme to the injured party.”

      what if the other person never finds out?

      • WIP

        Lies weigh on the soul. Unless you’re a sociopath, that guilt will affect you. This has been my experience. Even if I’ve never told it, it’s in the back of my mind. When I’ve come clean about lies, the lightness I feel is invigorating. So even if a cheater doesn’t get caught; IMO he/she will still be left with guilt. I’m not saying they’ll be ready to fling themselves off of a bridge, but, as we’ve said here before, peace is an invaluable possession.

        • Thereluctantsocialite

          Cosign! Can’t beat peace of mind…

        • Caballeroso

          There must be something to this whole “come clean” concept. I was watching an episode of The First 48 this weekend where a couple got into a domestic dispute. Cops were called. One was taken into custody for battery. While in custody, the genius said to the cops something along the lines of “Oh, by the way, if you go back and check the basement, there’s a body buried there.” Now he and his partner are in custody. All I could think was ‘What a dumbazz!’. I didn’t think coming clean was THAT important, but I guess I won’t know until I’m in a situation that warrants it.

        • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

          “So even if a cheater doesn’t get caught; IMO he/she will still be left with guilt.”

          again though — and you alluded to this in your comment — you’re assigning how you’d feel about a certain situation to others. and, i don’t think a person has to be a sociopath to not feel any guilt about cheating

          • WIP

            Well not really. I ain’t no type of psychology major (so I’m just going off of what I’ve heard) but I thought that was a common trait of “sociopaths”- no conscious.

            Also, “cheating” can only take place when there is an agreement to be monogamous. So if you can easily lie and betray someone that trusts you with no regret whatsoever, then you probably like to watch the baby chicks get eating by snakes on Youtube too. I’m just saying, you got problems.

        • kamakula

          Hmm, sounds like your soul needs to hit the gym or take lessons from Wee-Bey and learn how to carry some weight.

          • WIP

            LOL, so you suggest I strive to get make my soul similar to that of a drug-dealing murderer. I’ll take it into consideration.

            • kamakula

              Well, just the part that needs to carry weight

      • Mo-VSS

        There’s always that “they won’t find out,” clause many like to exercise when debating whether or not to cheat. I say many times that folks do find out. But for argument’s sake, if they don’t it still affects the relationship because often times the cheater behaves differently and it can be a rough time for the relationship. Maybe with folks who don’t have that kind of conscious it doesn’t show, but for many that’s not the case.

    • http://www.kineticculture.com NubianEmpress

      ““It seems like cheaters win cuz they “get their cake and eat it to,” but in the long run it doesn’t Pam out that way”

      i chuckled :) sometimes you be feelin it so much when you write…

  • DQ

    Everybody gets their comeuppance one way or another. We may not always be around to see it, but whatever investment you put out there, you eventually get “your return”. So to my mind’s eye Cheaters don’t win, (or lose for that matter).

    In terms of relationships, there’s no easy way to do a hard job; whether it’s staying in the relationship and working it out, or breaking up and writing off your investment. I just believe it’s hard for dudes to break it off because if honor and character means something to you, then keeping a commitment means something as well. It’s a type of promise. And coming to the realization that you cannot keep the promise and the result will be that you hurt the one you were supposed to “protect” – that will eff with you.

    Conversely if you never had any intention of being true to your word, than breaking your word is a matter of time and convenience not conscience.

    • resIpsa

      i, resIpsa, affix my co-signature, _____ here.

    • Cris Until I Find a Clever Name

      I thoroughly co-sign your post!!!

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

      “Everybody gets their comeuppance one way or another. We may not always be around to see it, but whatever investment you put out there, you eventually get “your return”.”

      hmm. how true is this? sounds like something we tell ourselves to make us feel better for making the right decision.

      • Orange Star Happy Hunting

        “Unfortunately no one can be told what the matrix is, you have it to see it for yourself”

      • http://www.facebook.com/DrPhoenyx Dr. Phoenyx Austin

        I don’t think this is something we just tell ourselves to feel better- atleast I don’t. And I firmly believe cheaters (or people who generally lack integrity and character) eventually settle with people who are just as deceptive and/or opportunistic as them. The fact is that water seeks its own level. And if you were to objectively dissect long term relationships, you will find that in the vast majority of cases, the two people are more alike than dissimilar. So by that virtue, I believe cheaters always end up getting what they deserve in the end- someone just like them ;) – Dr. Phoenyx

        • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

          “So by that virtue, I believe cheaters always end up getting what they deserve in the end- someone just like them ;) – Dr. Phoenyx”

          thanks, doc

      • Freeze

        I completely agree with the Champ’s question. I think all kinds of people get away with all kinds of things with no, or very little, negative consequences.

        I look at it like the movie Precious–a lot of people enter and leave this world with nothing but misery heaped on misery till their dying day. Some people say, ‘hey one day your day will come’, but it never does. It’s the same with the cheating individual, sometimes they pay for it sometimes they dont, and that’s that.

        I’m like the Champ, I haven’t cheated as a general rule but as I’ve gotten in to my 30s I’ve wondered it this self-righteous ‘moral’ behaviour has caused me to miss out on some things…and I’m not just talking about good p****y. I wasted a whole lotta time trying to end relationships that should have just been killed! Maybe if I was more detached. Anyway, good post Champ!

        • Orange Star Happy Hunting

          Jusr because it appears you have gotten away with something in a natural sense, doesn’t mean you will not have to account for it, one way or another, hence in a supernatural sense you never get away with anything.

      • http://twitter.com/simplysope simplysope

        100% Truth, Champ. We all want to think that people who do dirt will finally ‘get theirs’, but truthfully, sometimes it doesn’t happen. At least not in the way we would hope. Instead of consoling ourselves in the hope that a cheater will ‘gets what’s coming to them’ al I can do is live my life the best way I know how. Worrying about anothers karma is tiresome. Now I have never been cheated on, but I’ve but hurt by others, and sitting waiting for the hammer to drop is just like hurting yourself twice.

      • DQ

        *how true is this? sounds like something we tell ourselves to make us feel better for making the right decision.*

        It’s universally true if you ask me (but it’s really just my belief and perhaps I should have couched it as such in my original response). How people view this topic may be heavily influenced by spiritual or philosophical perspectives (or in my case both). Now perhaps it would be better if I stated that our activites in life are eventually “balanced out” in the long run (which means maybe the cheater doesn’t get punished, maybe you get compensation. Or maybe it’s both).

        In any case, I do not regard it as a way to make ourselves feel better for making “the right decision”, rather I regard it as bulwark to keep us from fashioning ourselves, our outlook, and our decisions into instruments of vengeance. It’s a philosophical outlook that keep us from believing that we need to see and/or participate in the calamity of one that hurt us, in order to feel like we have received justice. The best revenge is good living.

        And I would MUCH rather concentrate on things that make me win, than things that make you lose. It will all balance out in the end.

    • WIP

      “Conversely if you never had any intention of being true to your word, than breaking your word is a matter of time and convenience not conscience.”

      We all hope we can weed out these characters before they have a chance to hurt us- and usually you can. Too many times we ignore the signs that a person is not honest.

      • j.ivy

        Co sign…

        And WHY do we ignore this? Because we like being “full retard” when we know that’s not winning either? Uggghhhh. Foolish fuggery

    • http://www.kineticculture.com NubianEmpress

      @DQ

      i cosign this post mainly because you used “comeuppance”, and now i feel like a bar wench in a Shakespearean play :)

      #imdone

      • DQ

        Bring me ale!!! :)

  • Tes

    I think we like to think that cheaters never win because it makes us feel vindicated and elitist that we have never done anything like that, and those who do are just losers. In actuality, cheaters bi-win, especially if they’re with a spouse who just keeps taking them back. They get the new car smell and the comfort of the old jalopy.

    Personally, I don’t think I could ever cheat on a person because I know what kind of effects that can leave behind. I have a homeboy right this minute, terrified of fully commiting to women and breaking many hearts in the process because a girl he was in love with cheated on him once (with multiple dudes, in multiple openings but that’s neither here nor there).

    I think cheating is a cop-out; the person is wanting the other person to find out and end it so they don’t have to. Sure, they come off lookin an @ss, but atleast the person was “less hurt” by what happened. I’d rather you break up with me than give me syphilis any. f*cking. day. Some gifts can’t be returned. Word life.

    • DQ

      Bi-winning? LOL, I respectfully disagree Tes. Every action has a consequence. Sometimes they are not immediate, sometimes we’re not around to see it, but there is ALWAYS a consequence.

      • Tes

        I too believe in karma, however I’m not one to kid myself. The cheater finally being brought to justice is like that tree that falls in the forrest without anyone to hear; if I can’t bear witness to it, what does it matter to me then?

        • Yoles

          i agree Tes…. too little too late, consequences years down the road… hmpf

          • Anastasia!!!

            I like the new avatar, Yolanda!!!! :-)

            • http://twitter.com/#!/legitimate_soul legitimate_soul

              Ditto on avi! :)

              • Yoles

                well thx so much ladies…. i think that i’m now representing for the cougars up in this piece… i gotta do it right!!

              • WIP

                yes, cute pic

      • Kimmy

        I couldn’t agree more. I don’t think you need to wait around and watch for it…because then you are wasting your energy and life on someone who doesn’t deserve it, but I believe there is always a consequnce for mistreating people. Always.

    • http://twitter.com/bsquared86 BSQUARED86

      I gotta agree with you. Karma comes in and all that but in the meantime, they’re getting theirs. And cheating is definitely a cop out. Cowards cheat.

    • WIP

      Bi-winning? Not so much. Breaker-uppers come to the house and pack their items neatly in a box. Cheaters get their sh*t thrown out on the lawn, slashed, bleached, sold etc. New car small and comfort of the old jalopy? Old girl is gonna stay nagging his a$$- “where you going, who you gonna be with” and blowing up his phone, going through his pockets. How is this better than simply walking away? It’s just bad business all the way around. Cheating in relationships is a different monster IMO.

      • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

        “Cheaters get their sh*t thrown out on the lawn, slashed, bleached, sold etc. New car small and comfort of the old jalopy?”

        (some) cheaters who get caught, you mean.

        • WIP

          I thought we were talking about cheaters who get caught- people who cheat to sabatage relationships…

          Cheaters that don’t get caught pay a price too- peace, as I mentioned above. I think the smug smile and nonchalant attitude is a front that the “cheater” can put on to act like they got away unscathed. People that are good at cheating and lying are probably good at hiding their pain. People laugh and yell “if you ain’t cheating, you ain’t trying” to hide the fact they are scared of being a failure.

          • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

            People laugh and yell “if you ain’t cheating, you ain’t trying” to hide the fact they are scared of being a failure.

            is this at shotsfired at like 12 people in this thread?

            • WIP

              Ya I said it.

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

      I think we like to think that cheaters never win because it makes us feel vindicated and elitist that we have never done anything like that, and those who do are just losers. In actuality, cheaters bi-win, especially if they’re with a spouse who just keeps taking them back. They get the new car smell and the comfort of the old jalopy.

      Personally, I don’t think I could ever cheat on a person because I know what kind of effects that can leave behind. I have a homeboy right this minute, terrified of fully commiting to women and breaking many hearts in the process because a girl he was in love with cheated on him once (with multiple dudes, in multiple openings but that’s neither here nor there).

      I think cheating is a cop-out; the person is wanting the other person to find out and end it so they don’t have to. Sure, they come off lookin an @ss, but atleast the person was “less hurt” by what happened. I’d rather you break up with me than give me syphilis any. f*cking. day. Some gifts can’t be returned. Word life.

      ***nodding head at entire reply***

      • http://www.kineticculture.com NubianEmpress

        “I have a homeboy right this minute, terrified of fully commiting to women and breaking many hearts in the process because a girl he was in love with cheated on him once (with multiple dudes, in multiple openings but that’s neither here nor there).”

        A vicious slew-cycle. smh.

  • WorthwhileDude

    If you aren’t willing to end a bad relationship, cheating will definately help. Just make sure you get caught. Then she’ll be the one doing the breaking up and you don’t have to worry about letting her down easy. That, or she’ll take you back and you’ve dealt with the relationship melancholy and can come back home to her with a refreshed memory of why you don’t wanna be with someone else. Just don’t count on her actually taking you back, that’s just a bad gamble.

    I’ve had the good fortune to never have to break up with someone where the desire to end it wasn’t mutual. So take my advice with a grain of salt, it is wholly untested and not FDA approved. I am not liable to any adverse side affects up to and including death by psycho woman who won’t settle for slashing tires.

    • http://iamyourpeople.com/ I Am Your People

      If you aren’t willing to end a bad relationship, cheating will definately help. Just make sure you get caught. Then she’ll be the one doing the breaking up and you don’t have to worry about letting her down easy.

      Couldn’t disagree more. If you breakup with your gf, she’ll be pissed, but if you cheat, she’ll be HURT. Plus, you get the rep as being the jackazz cheater, which prevents you from dating anyone in her circle of friends/sorority/book club/spades party that you may have been able to date had you just broken up with her. My 2cents

      • WorthwhileDude

        Can’t argue with any of that except to say I’ve seen guys pull it off. Then again, I’ve never seen it used outside of a dysfuntional relationship because lets face it: the type of guy who might do it ain’t likely to get into many healthy relationships.

      • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

        “Couldn’t disagree more. If you breakup with your gf, she’ll be pissed, but if you cheat, she’ll be HURT. Plus, you get the rep as being the jackazz cheater, which prevents you from dating anyone in her circle of friends/sorority/book club/spades party that you may have been able to date had you just broken up with her. My 2cent”

        can’t you say the same thing about breaking up?

        • Be On It

          I don’t think it’s really true w/ cheating or breaking up. People will step to their friends’ ex if they think the benefits outweigh the cons. Example, there was this dude that was briefly with my undergrad roommate. They stopped dating, and you should have seen her entire circle of friends circling him like sharks (dude was fine. Like slap your mama FIONE). The only thing that stopped most of them from pursuing it was not any of our friendships with her, but the fact that she let it slip that occaisionally he had a hard time getting and staying hard. Killed most interest pretty quick.

          Personally, I think she put this story out jsut to throw shade, but that’s not something you ever want to run the risk of finding out is true.

  • Bri

    Why does it have to be all or nothing? There are such things as committed relationships that do not involve monogamy.

    • TheAnti-Cool

      Exactly.

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

      “Why does it have to be all or nothing? There are such things as committed relationships that do not involve monogamy.”

      this is true, but since only about .0001% of the population is able to effectively pull this off, i left it out

      • Yoles

        i think there are way more non-monogamous relationships out there but due to social stigma, effects it may or may not have on public life etc people in these relationships keep their relationships private

      • IET

        “this is true, but since only about .0001% of the population is able to effectively pull this off, i left it out”

        Is it me or does it seems that .0001% of the population seems to pull off the monogamy thing?

    • Imperfect

      That’s just nasty. Sorry. No monogamy = No commitment. If you aren’t monogamous, what are you committed to?

      • kamakula

        You are committed to a relationship together?

        You have friends right? You are committed to them. Not in the same way as with someone with whom you have a romantic relationship, but it would take some serious f*cked up sh*t for you to drop your friends right?

        I bet you are not monogamous, having just one friend at a time. . .

        • Yoles

          @ kamakula

          i agree… i have always found it odd that every other type of expression of love has no limits or bounds but romantic love only belongs to two people… parents can love each child, each child can love each parent, step-parent, god-parent etc, people can love limitless friends, family but once romance blooms, then a love has limits…

          • CNotes

            @Yoles

            While you make a very good argument, I have a hard time comparing romantic love to love that does not include sharing bodily fluids.

    • IET

      mmmmhmmm.

    • http://twitter.com/KitKatCuty84 KitKatCuty84

      What’s the point of a committed relationship with no monogamy? Is that really a relationship? It’s just two people that enjoy having sex with many people, and keep each other in their rotation. I don’t quite understand the point of labeling that anything other than another “friend with benefits”, if you’re not going to be monogamous.

      • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

        the open relationship thing seems to work for some couples. and by “seems to work for some couples” i mean “seems to work for some couples where the woman gives the man carte blanche to do what he wants”

        • http://twitter.com/KitKatCuty84 KitKatCuty84

          Then I’d have to agree with Imperfect (above) on that one: If you’re not monogamous, what exactly are you committed to?

        • Yoles

          i disagree…

          com·mit·ment (k-mtmnt)
          n.
          1. The act or an instance of committing, especially:
          a. The act of referring a legislative bill to committee.
          b. Official consignment, as to a prison or mental health facility.
          c. A court order authorizing consignment to a prison.
          2.
          a. A pledge to do.
          b. Something pledged, especially an engagement by contract involving financial obligation.
          3. The state of being bound emotionally or intellectually to a course of action or to another person or persons

          I am a non monogamous person in a committed relationship and i have no problem answering questions about it as long as i am not attacked… Commitment means so much more than sex and a relationship is also so much more than sex. I myself am polyamorous and my s/o is more swinger-esque but we make it work. We are in love and share our lives, we live together and talk and enjoy each others company, we are bonded and want to grow old with each other and even have a family. what i find funniest is most people automatically assume that a man has convinced a woman to let him have carte blanche. what about women who are not monogamous? what about people (women) that do not put limits on physical expression?

          • WIP

            “Official consignment, as to a prison or mental health facility”

            It just made me giggle that the terms for a being monogamous relationship and going to the crazy house are the same.

            • Yoles

              i thought that was funny too…

          • http://twitter.com/KitKatCuty84 KitKatCuty84

            I don’t understand this expression of love or commitment. It makes no sense to me. I have no problem with you or others who do it. But it’s completely unrelatable to me and my definitions of commitment and a relationship.

      • Tes

        Co-sign.

        How do you even approach someone with that I wonder?

  • http://twitter.com/#!/legitimate_soul legitimate_soul

    “In fact, if I’d been willing to cheat — and assuming I was either clever enough to never get caught or with someone willing to forgive my repeated transgressions – not only would I have “saved” myself from having to break-up with a woman, I’d probably be married (with children) right now.”

    ^Or you might have cheated with someone that’ll have you coming home to your pet rabbit boiling in a pot. Cheaters don’t win for the reasons you stated before in your other post. For the selfishness of the moment, cheating can have a person catching disease, their car and personal property destroyed, their relationships destroyed, or hurt through violence etc. Folks never know the extent of crazy and disrupt they are letting into their lives by being dishonest and taking part in a betrayal on that level. Ask Joey Buttafuocos’ wife about Amy Fisher shooting her in the head? Tiger sure wishes one mistress didn’t go to Gloria Allred and he had to pay he!!a to keep her quiet. That’s not even including his children possibly being raised in Sweden and the major millions that went to Elin. Steve McNair has unfortunately not lived to tell the tale. I don’t mean that to be flippant or insensitive, just honest in how it can all come crashing down. Those are lives and families effected and destroyed. By not thinking things through, you can start a chain of events that can cause a lot of pain and irreparable damage. Champ, I know you are against cheating, but I’m making that point in response to this post or idea that “cheaters win”.

    In terms of breaking up: Champ, I know you were speaking from the male point of view (which I respect) and wasn’t trying to act like break ups for women are easy…But just to confirm, it is painful for us too. A break-up can be painful for all involved even if that person needed to be out of your life. In some cases, some women mourn for what could have been, not what was (I can admit I have). In others, they love things about that person and not having that person around, whether they need to be or not, is hurtful. In other situations no one did anything wrong, but the feelings are no longer there. The idea of hurting or rejecting a good person is a horrible dilemma and some people stick it out hoping and praying that God can make them like a person because they are good. People labor with it and don’t want to hurt anyone. It sucks for all of us (again, I know your weren’t saying the contrary).

    • Leila

      “Just to confirm, it is painful for us too”

      It is especially if it’s a good guy. I’ve gone back and forth many times before ending it with a guy and it’s a really hard decision. You don’t want to hurt their feelings. The last time that I did it, the guy was begging me not to leave him and it really hurt.

    • JustForToday

      “It sucks for all of us (again, I know your weren’t saying the contrary)”

      I will take your word for it, but when I was on the receiving end, she seemed REALLY cold and clinical about it, as if it was not affecting her in the least. Folks tried to say “oh she will regret it”, yada yada, but she did not seem to look back one second. They say when women have an exit plan, she goes, and I believe part of that plan is to NEVER let the menfolk know how she is thinking or feeling about the situation.

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

      In terms of breaking up: Champ, I know you were speaking from the male point of view (which I respect) and wasn’t trying to act like break ups for women are easy…But just to confirm, it is painful for us too.

      yeah, i don’t think it’s easy for anybody. but, i do think it’s easier for women because most of you have more experience with rejecting people and saying “no”

      • http://www.kineticculture.com NubianEmpress

        @Champ,

        it’s not necessarily because we have more experience saying no, but because we have the emotional support and societal green light to cry about it, be sad, and recover. Women are also far more reflective and analytical after a breakup. Honestly guys have been socialized to fear and not deal with their feelings, rendering them stupefied at the prospect of an emotion-filled break up.

        • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

          good point

          • http://www.kineticculture.com NubianEmpress

            I know.

  • http://www.pinchmycheekie.wordpress.com Cheekie

    This is interesting. I’ve heard a number of times from guys that the bad feeling from cheating on your spouse and forcing them to break up with you is far easier than the bad feeling you get from having to make the choice yourself. It’s just… interesting… considering we’re the ones who can’t generally make a decision. ;)

    • http://twitter.com/bsquared86 BSQUARED86

      I knew a guy that would never initiate a break-up. He would sabotage the relationship (mostly by cheating) to make the women dump him. He would rather be a straight up a-hole than man up and just end the relationship. Crazy.

      • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

        not crazy. lazy and selfish, but not crazy, lol

        • DQ

          Funny, the last time I pointed out to some lady friends of mine that much of the effed up things men do, they do out of selfishness, it was rejected. For some reason they wanted it to be “self-esteem” issues that caused it. #gofigure