Dating, Relationships, & Sex, Theory & Essay

Deconstructing the Destructive Tendencies of Men Towards Relationships

We never mean to hurt you. Seriously. We don’t.

We just have no clue what we’re doing. Well, we know what we’re doing, but we have no clue what we’re doing.

Let me back this train up a bit before it gets rolling. Back in March, I was a panelist in the MadameNoire series, Ask A Black Man. In said series, I made a statement that was easy enough to digest at the time but over the course of time I’ve really thought about why it’s true. What I said was this:

“I’m not a bad buy, but I’ve definitely made some bad guy moves.”

I dont remember what this was in response to but I think that’s the case for a significant portion of us menfolks out here. The truth is, most of us aren’t really bad guys intending to lie, cheat, and be the most inconsiderate people ever. To the contrary rather. I’d wager that most guys want to be stand up people and be viewed favorably by everybody they come across. There is definitely a segment of the male populace that couldn’t give any less f*cks if you stole their soul and sold it to Robert Johnson for a bag of skittles. Those individuals do exist.

But again, that’s not the majority. Most of us want to meet nice women, sleep with most of them, but fall in love with one who we can’t wait to settle down with and hear a little person call “mommy”. Some of it is programming, but a lot of it is our natural desire to procreate and have live in protection-free lovin’.

But the line between single and married is a journey full of pratfalls, bad decisions, and regrets. Especially for men. See, most of us well-intentioned individuals, again, have no clue what we’re doing.

Sure we know how to spit a little game and get second and third dates and bed a lot of women. It’s really not that hard if you have even a little bit of personality and talk to you.

Quick side story: A few years ago, an ex-girlfriend of mine who by this point was a good friend of mine (it can happen), was listening to me talk about my various dating situations and a few involving women who just did not f*ck with me anymore. She listened without saying much, save for a few “mmhmms” and “why did you do that? okay” here and there. After about 10 minutes of the convo she said, “P, you know what your problem is, you have no clue what you’re doing. It’s like you want everybody to like you and you don’t want to hurt anybody so you end up pissing more people off in the process. Is the truth that hard? It can’t be. You’re telling it to me. But at some point you have to realize that sometimes you have to let people hate you. But even before you get there, you’ve got to make better decisions upfront and realize that for every one of these small bad decisions you make there’s another person at the end of it wondering what the hell happened and why? But no, you just fly by the seat of your pants and hope it all works out only to ultimately create enemies out of women who would make valuable friends to you if you’d just been straight up in the first place.”

Well, damn. And ouch. Not that I’m sure they’d all be “real” friends in that I do think that once I entered into a relationship, many would just fall off. But her point wasn’t lost on me.

Back to the lecture at hand. When dating or single according to our FB profiles, many guys will entertain the whims of a lot of women. Not just the ones he’s interested in, but also the ones paying him attention. What’s a little convo going to hurt? Nothing. Except we all forget that time means a lot to women. You give a woman you don’t know an hour of time on the phone she will likely view it as time you could have spent doing something else but you chose to spend it with her. Texting good morning everyday? Yeah, dumb move if you’re not feeling her because many women assume that makes them special. It’s nothing to send that text but they don’t know that you’re not going out of your way to think of them. Again, nothing bad buy about it, its just that we don’t view time and/or attention the same way.

So say we’re doing this with muliple women. They don’t know. Why should they? The right hand doesn’t need to know what the left hand is doing. Both men and women subscribe to this ideology. But instead of ever having a conversation about what’s really going on, we just decide to forego it and see where things go. With everybody. And naturally, one tends to stand out above the rest. She’s usually as poison as she can be…you know the rest.

Now none of this is a problem. Until it becomes one. At some point the women are all going to ask you what’s up and you can give them all the same line but this is when bad decisions come into play. See, not wanting to hurt any of them we find little ways to reassure them that we care and that they’re around for a reason. What’s the reason? Who knows. But we never say that. Why would we? The truth might hurt.

That would suck.

We pretend we care about these other women, except we don’t. Or at least not until its too late. All we care about is not hurting them. That’s not caring, that’s selfish. Instead of being straight up with them we hope 2 things happen: 1) that they’ll just go away on their own if we stop talking to or seeing them as much; and 2) that they never end up having to be hurt by being confronted with the half-truths and lies we’ve told. Some if it isn’t even lies. Some of it is delusion on the part of the women. I will always believe this. But that doesn’t absolve me from providing the clarity needed to temper some of that delusion (all of it isn’t going away…let’s be real).

So instead of handling the situations up front and being clear and fair to all the women we may or may not have been dealing with, we just deal with the aftermath. Women aren’t stupid. They realize eventually and they get pissed and upset because two things women hate more than anything are being ignored and not having full information. The third which ties with them both is believing there’s another woman in the picture which fuels the first two.

Now again, even after all of that, none of this intentional. It’s all done out of hopefully not hurting any particular woman. Except, we do more damage this way than we would by being straight up. And we KNOW this.

We KNOW.

That’s the worst part about it. We know better. Most of us know what we’re doing even if we don’t know what we’re doing. It’s not on purpose but the end result is the same. By attempting to be benevolent through selfishness, contempt and animosity unfold. Sure we’ve got a woman who is probably unaware of all of the drama around her because of him (or in rare cases ends up being apart of it…maybe that’s not so rare) and we’ve decided to be true and real with this one, but how many women did we break on that journey?

We’ve all got pasts and men and women have done things that we’re not proud of to people who didn’t deserve it. But most of it could be prevented on the front end. Some of this is just part of the game. You can’t make an omelette without breaking a few eggs. Hearts get broken all of the time. Again, it’s part of the game. And what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger. But how the hearts get broken is the problem.

You keep trying to play it cool and eventually you turn cold. Hopefully we meet a woman who makes us care enough to straighten up before that. But that doesn’t change the past.

Even if it isn’t on purpose.

You might think that this is a young man problem but there are men of all ages doing this. And women of all ages getting caught up.

If you ever get to a place in life where a sincere apology doesn’t help, you need to re-evalute your life and what made that apology moot. And that assumes you intend to do so. To be fair, there are times when an apology will do more harm than good.

Again, the worst part is that most men going through these things are the good guys. The ones who do care about women and want to get married. But good guys give a damn. And giving a damn means you try not to hurt people. And trying not to hurt people means you don’t be straight up. And not being straight up means you hurt people. And hurting people means you made some bad guy moves.

This is no excuse nor is it a plea to justify the non-sense that many women have dealt with due to many of our issues.

This is my interpretation of the situation.

Damn damn damn James.

Church.

-VSB P aka THE ARSONIST aka MR. REALNINJATALKIN aka GIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRL HE A 3

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Damon Young

Panama Jackson is pretty fly for a light guy. He used to ship his frito to Tito in the District, but shipping prices increased so he moved there to save money. When he's not saving humanity with his words or making music with his mouth, you can find him at your mama's mama's house drinking her fine liquors. Most importantly, he believes the children are our future.

  • Toria

    Hearts will not be practical until they can be made unbreakable.

    This is exactly why I never assume I’m the only one, or that we are more than just cool until dude decided to make that clear. Babe got his feelings hurt when I asked if we were together, but I have learned to assume nothing.

    That being said, some girls are dumb. And female feelings cause us to want to believe we’re the only one all the time because most likely the man in our life is the only one. Damn oxytocin.

    • Tanny

      I first heard that quote while watching The Wizard of Oz, very true about our hearts. Easily breakable.

    • chameleonic

      i assume the worst.

      • Rewind

        As you should. At all times. Until you have proof that it’s better.

        Keyword is PROOF.

        • chameleonic

          which is why my standards are so high. you make yourself known to me.

          • Rewind

            Exactly.

            • http://qupsi.wordpress.com QuPsi

              Whoa, always assume the worst? Definitely can’t agree with this.

              How about you just assume nothing at all? Assuming a person is the devil incarnate can be just as bad as assuming they’re god’s gift to earth.

              People are going to show you their own character, good or bad. It’s our responsibility to be strong enough to handle it, good or bad. If you’re a mature strong person, you won’t need to psych yourself up to prepare for the worst, cause you’ll be strong enough to roll with the punches. Further, you’ll be wise enough to know from the get go, this may not work and this may also be the absolute best there is.

              If you’re entering in a relationship “assuming the worst”, you’ll never be prepared to handle the best. Hell, I’d go as far as to say you won’t even be able to recognize the best. I’m not saying where your heart on your sleeve, but you don’t need to build a 10 ft steel wall either.

    • Ms. Bridget

      +1 on assume nothing. Took a while to get there tho.

    • Adonis

      @Toria

      That being said, some girls are dumb. And female feelings cause us to want to believe we’re the only one all the time because most likely the man in our life is the only one. Damn oxytocin

      Good quote

    • Cookie

      Damn, damn, damn James…This is too funny, because when men act this way (deceive, lie, cheat, etc.), and women, in turn, react because they are hurt, this is usually when men pretend to have NO CLUE as to why she (or in this scenario, they) are behaving this way…and say that women are crazy

  • She Who Reads

    “When dating or single according to our FB profiles, many guys will entertain the whims of a lot of women.”

    This is the moment men begin to hurt the women they are talking to/dating. Instead of giving a whole shot to any girl, y’all give a piece of a shot to a lot of girls.

    • http://testorshia.blogspot.com Tes

      ^^^And BOOM.

      • Yoles

        went the dynamite…

    • http://twitter.com/kjnetic Sith King Jordan aka Bruce Lil’ Wayne bka 2 Fitted Hatz

      should males date around?

      • http://testorshia.blogspot.com Tes

        Sure.

        But let the girls you’re dating around with, know you’re dating around. Let them decide if the guy is worth sharing temporarily (for the “lucky” one who gets him) or not.

        • DG

          I agree, to an extent…

          I don’t think it’s imperative to let someone know right away that you’re dating around (unless she asks). The first few dates should be just that…dates. I know some folks do not feel comfortable seeing more than one person at a time, but I think that both men and women should be able to date around and see what’s out there.

          • http://testorshia.blogspot.com Tes

            Boundaries have to be made though; like the difference between dating and dating exclusively.

            Do men not like to make boundaries with women?

            • DG

              Do men not like to make boundaries with women?

              Depends on how we see (or what we want from) the woman…

              How many dates should occur before the decision is made to date vs. date exclusively?? Honestly, I think that’s part of the problem, because it’s different for different people. Some people want to date exclusively after a couple of dates…

              Maybe some kind of date threshold should be established….as in you have to go out on at least 5 dates before you can have any expectations for exclusivity.

            • msdebbs

              That’s because they want you to give 100% while their shelling out 20% since their spread so thin…selfish jerks.

              • lurkyturkey

                #preach

                men want it all while giving the bare minimum…or nothing

              • http://www.todisspits.blogspot.com MicTheMessenger

                I don’t think that’s true.

                You call us too selfish, but maybe i call y’all too selfless.

                First off, i believe that men and women have two completely different scales. What might be 100 to might only be 20 to me, especially depending on where we are in life.

                Second, several of the women i’ve known (on whatever level) came in the game ALL IN. Ummm…excuse me miss, but we just met in the student union TWO WEEKS AGO. And let’s be honest. If you choose to give the dude any part of yourself, homeboy ain’t gon turn it down. That’s like offering me steak, and you know I like steak. I’m going to eat the sh!t out of that steak. It’s part nature. Otherwise, men of the nice nature wouldn’t have this issue.

                Protect your neck in these streets. A person can only take from you what you offer.

                • GirlSixx

                  “Protect your neck in these streets. A person can only take from you what you offer.”

                  #Benediction!!!!

                  Let the church say Amen!!

                • Demondog 06

                  Truth to power my friend!

              • GirlSixx

                And that’s why WE should too. Never put all you eggs in ONE BASKET straight out the gate because not everyone is 100 upfront about their dating situation, and quite honestly nobody owes anybody ANYTHING until “The Talk” has been had.

        • https://twitter.com/#!/IluminatiNYC Todd

          Agreed. They should at least know what they’re signing up for, even if they don’t need a complete rundown of the competition.

        • Rewind

          But isn’t dating a weeding process? I mean honestly, though I always say people should ask questions…why in anyone’s right mind think if they date someone…IT IS JUST THEM ALONE?

          I’m a guy. There’s no such thing as ME BEING THE ONLY GUY if I ask a girl on a date, because 30 other guys did the same thing during the week, and 5 of them, including me got a shot.

          This is where it gets confusing for me, because that is an extremely harsh assumption, to believe it is just you who is special if someone asks you on a date.

          • http://twitter.com/kjnetic sith king jordan

            *enters kitchen*

            *grabs croutons*

            that’s partly what i was getting at.
            but, it’s whatever. all the more reason to…

            nah, i’m U-chillin.

            *exits kitchen*

            • Rewind

              It’s because people don’t want to seperate Disney logic from reality, and that shyte has no place here. I can’t do it.

          • Toria

            They assume because they want to be. Nobody wants to think they aren’t special and if you’re giving them the right attention, it makes them feel special. How does that make you look if she assumes you’re able to make multiple women feel this way simultaneously and she falls for it too?

            Dating is a weeding process only if you make it known that you are dating. Some chicks assume you are courting not dating, and that’s a whole ‘nother bag of worms.

            • Rewind

              That’s the problem. There should be no such thing as “make it be known that you are dating”. You’re dating because you don’t know each other. You’re dating because you still talk to your ex. You’re dating because you have numbers of girls or guys you haven’t spoken to in months, but if they hit you up, it’s ON!

              Come on now, at some point, we are too grown to be this clueless.

              • Toria

                Completely agree with you. All I’m saying is everyone needs to be clear on the terms of the relationship (in whatever capacity that is) in order for everyone to be on the same page.

                This is why I always assume we are just dating and that I’m never the only one. But people believe what they want to and go with the things that make them happy even at the expense of their better judgment.

                • Rewind

                  And that’s why people fall for the trap. It isn’t even hard to look at one’s own life and see we got a lot of unresolved business with people who pop in and out of our lives. Rare is a person who doesn’t have that. So even if you are dating, if one of those people pops up, what do you do then? People forget that stuff.

      • Iceprincess2

        Sure, but just be up front about it. That’s what will seperate the women from the girls. A grown woman will not only be able to handle it, she will appreciate your honesty. I think a lot of guys lead a woman to believe she’s the “only one” cuz yall are afraid yall won’t get the p*ssy otherwise. You’d be surprised how many woman would still deal with you even if you made it clear that yall aren’t together. Instead yall wanna be Drake, “tellin erry girl she’s the one for me, & I ain’t even plannin to callllll…” Smh lol

        • nillalatte

          tell’em again ice. I don’t think they believing. Sometimes, depending on the woman, the man can’t handle/doesn’t know how to act when they run into a woman playing they own game- throws dude for a loop. he becomes intrigued and shyt. they dont believe in unicorns cause they are so elusive, but they do exist. tell em again. :)

        • https://twitter.com/#!/IluminatiNYC Todd

          The problem is with that is a lot of dudes are on their Jerry Sandusky steez even if the chicks are of age, if you get my drift. Men act like there’s a nani depression, and the only known source are immature chickenheads. *smh* I do agree with your statement though.

          • Rewind

            It’s not even just that. Men & women are both playing the field, assuming information, not asking questions, making bad decisions, and getting mad at each other when they should be getting mad at themselves.

            So in the end, I’m trying to figure out where we got to a point where we all put ourselves on a pedestal that screams “I deserve to be treated special” when we do things to prove THAT IS A LIE.

            • Ms. Bridget

              If someone doesn’t explicitly say, we are a couple, will you be my girlfriend, the only safe assumption is that we are not exclusive and we don’t give each other exclusive treatment.

              • Rewind

                But that’s still dating. Nothing is established except liking the other person.

                Honestly, when you meet someone, they got history. So do you. You get no confirmation that their history is relieved of it’s duty unless they say so, and the same goes for you. So that’s why I think it’s stupid to assume anything unless everything is set out on a table as a plan of what happens next.

                • Ms. Bridget

                  I totally agree.

            • http://overthestory.blogspot.com Angie G.

              This is truth.

        • Sweet GA Brown

          +10000

          I respect honesty. And that is what is attractive to me. I never assume a man is only dating me because a man is single until the day he gets married. As am I.

          Once a man was telling me that he wasnt obligated to no one because he wasnt married. He was paasionate while telling me thins and it sunk in and stays with me. That was a valued lesson I learned.

          • Adonis

            @Sweet GA Brown

            “I never assume a man is only dating me because a man is single until the day he gets married. ”

            Women would avoid single motherhood if they took this ideology as gospel

        • http://www.todisspits.blogspot.com MicTheMessenger

          Hi, my name is Mic and I date around, but i’d love to make you a point on my circle.

          • demondog06

            i mean really though…….

            that completely up front ish sounds good in theory…

            • http://www.todisspits.blogspot.com MicTheMessenger

              …til get a drink in your face and a bad rep. And a bad rep means that one is no longer considered a good guy.

              can’t be mad at a pirhanna for wanting to be a trout if it means he’ll swim in the fishing pond.

      • http://twitter.com/kjnetic sith king jordan

        If you say so, ma’ams.

        *exits post*

        • Iceprincess2

          Welp, at least you left the kitchen for somewhere a lil cooler lmfao. I respect that :-)

      • chameleonic

        no. make up your mind and dedicate yourself to a life with one woman.

        • http://www.todisspits.blogspot.com MicTheMessenger

          I agree! But it’s the selection process we’re talking about here.

          There’s just SO MANY of y’all to choose from! So much variety! like pokemon or some ish.

          For real tho. Do women go through the same thing? I know based on traditional gender roles alot of women wait to be approached, but yall i still got options because women get approached by men everyday. So y’all GOTTA be able to relate. Our perspectives are just different.

          I mean at the end of the day, the nice guy procedure might be kinda wack. And nobody’s perfect.

          • http://www.todisspits.blogspot.com MicTheMessenger

            And although we be hurting the ish out of y’all, we do wish all the women we encounter end up with someone who will throw flowers and candy and rub your feet and drink your bath water and take care of you watch basketball wives with you. It’s just hard sometimes to dismiss another person off the island.

            • chameleonic

              lol. i think as a woman the only time ive had to select from several men is when several are interested and i have a decision to make. the ultimate test, the FINAL test is….’this is the life i want.’ i dont think i hurt men but i think measuring up tends to break more than a few. some wont even try. funny thing is though, the few who meet the standards are very off putting…

              ‘holy sh*t you made it…i have no idea how to handle this…’

              but from a males perspective i imagine the selection process is a lot more frivolous because every woman wants to let you dip and dabble on the CHANCE you wanna be with her on some sweet, romantic comedy ish. i imagine men take full advantage as opposed to setting a standard. i imagine they egg women on for pleasure and amusement because a man cant choose a wife when he himself is not prepared to be her husband. dating isnt a selection process its a chess match of carnal desire.

              • http://www.todisspits.blogspot.com MicTheMessenger

                i think depending on where you’re at, the chess match can be fun, but only if the two parties are up to it.

                And it’s funny you talk about setting a standard, because i used to be that guy. but honestly, i got to college (an HBCU at that) and i was like, “this noble ish is for the birds. AND i stayed losing, cuz no one was trying to commit then. And i think guys are like that for a while (until like late 20’s).

                I think dating is frivolous for men because we don’t always date for marriage. We date for fun, until one day we decide we wanna get married then go and do it. Only exception is when somebody walks into your life that is simply too good to pass up (which happened to me at 22. Talk about dilemma).

                And hell, maybe it is a man fail because we’re supposed to lead and be a few steps ahead of yall (which is backwards considered that women are MUCH more mature).

                I don’t think we egg women on as much as we just like to have fun and chase yall around. And y’all like it to. The game changes when one person doesn’t wanna play anymore.

                And maybe the issue is the fact that for men, love is game until its not.
                For women, love is never a game.

                • chameleonic

                  lol! @ that noble ish is for the birds. i bet it is with free, delicious a*s just sitting around and being thrown at you, and perhaps this chase/catch thing is enjoyable for some but id rather just plant myself, get caught, and see how we measure against one anothers desires. not for fun. for keeps. decades of bliss and weathered tribulations.

                  until isht gets real and a dude actually puts ‘for keeps’ to me. then its like heeeey how bout we slow ALL the way down and give me a little room to compute you. and this is always my shortcoming. i am SO shook of just enjoying a man with my heart on my sleeve. even when hes CLEARLY serious i just tell myself hes having fun. and if hes just sport dating theres no reason to even entertain a hope im his one and only. silly.

                  • http://www.todisspits.blogspot.com MicTheMessenger

                    But you know, i think being shook is part of the thrill. The uncertainty is a rush. I think part of the magic of love is just jumping off a cliff, hoping someone will meet you halfway, and you fall together. Although i went through me chase/catch release phase, i eventually smartened up when the one i couldn’t live without came along. And even though im still learning this thing, at least i’m not in it alone. When we find the one we want (or just get tired of looking), we’ll put a ring on it. The goog thing about good guys is i think they’ll ultimately make good husbands and fathers that are committed to their families. It ties right back aorund into not wanting to see someone hurt, and by this time the selfish part is gone too because part of being a selfish family man includes being selfish on behalf of your family. Their happiness becomes directly tied with ours, and that’s a good thing.

                    • chameleonic

                      (._.) *genuinely lets that lesson about men set in*

    • http://stanoffewwords.wordpress.com Tristan

      So y’all say.

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

      I actually disagree with this. You have no idea what you’re signing up for in the beginning as a male either. But people are people. At some point, somebody pulls ahead unless you view all women as objects you bone. If you have feelings they can and do develop.

      I think that at some point, over time, you do owe a conversation to whoever you’re dealing with though. THAT’s the point where men start to hurt y’all. We tend to hope we don’t have to have those convos.

      • Iceprincess2

        That’s true.

      • Rewind

        Exactly. this is about context of maturity. If you get wise enough to see a person as a real, flesh and bone, I-bleed-like-you-bleed human being…then you do learn how to respect someone off the back. But that doesn’t mean they are on the same page at the moment you say “Hello”. So that’s why the game is played, to weed people out. But in doing so, maturity dictates whether you should put shyte on the table from the get-go…or if you’re going to procrastinate, waiting for an easy way to get it done.

      • http://asiyah3.wordpress.com Asiyah

        “I think that at some point, over time, you do owe a conversation to whoever you’re dealing with though.”

        Yup! That was all I ever wanted from that guy. I didn’t open up the conversation myself because I didn’t want to scare him. Plus, I’ve come to find that whenever a woman says she’s confused or that she doesn’t want a relationship, men think she’s either full of BS/it’s game or take that as a challenge to pursue her even if he isn’t into her either. I just wish we would’ve had that conversation instead of him just forgetting I existed. Oh well.

  • Erin

    I appreciate this. I can see the depth in your analysis and it is greatly appreciated. Hopefully you’ll inspire someone who is currently lying to a woman in order to not hurt her to be straight up…in order to prevent her from getting hurt. I didn’t agree with the apology section of this. I do think a well timed, heartfelt apology is a priceless tool. The initial apology is just for diffusal purposes. The one that comes a year later.
    .once you see the affect your choices have had on this woman can make the difference in her healing. Hurt people, hurt people.it’s a vicious cycle.

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

      true indeed.

    • Rewind

      Ahhh…the “Drake” apology.

      Yea..that’s officially proof that we’ve grown up. At least a little bit.

  • http://testorshia.blogspot.com Tes

    Now that’s that sh*t I don’t like.

    Men stay saying they don’t want to hurt anybody, while hurting somebody. That’s like saying “I don’t want to stab you” while strapping a girl to a board and throwing knives at her.

    All this “I don’t wanna hurt you” sh*t is, for all the hemming and hawing, a cop out. You know how you don’t hurt me? By NOT hurting me. How do you not hurt me? Don’t let me think we’re something we’re not.

    *huffs and sits in corner muttering about those damned men*

    • Pseudonym

      ^^Boom TIMES 2!!!!!

    • nillalatte

      Preach on it my young sista with an old soul, PREACH!

    • AfroPetite

      Tabernacle!

      I always assume there are other women as not to get myself prematurely attached to the mere thought of an “us” occurring.

      Should he/I lose interest I will be able to recognize the signs as soon as they appear and make my exit stage left.

    • http://asiyah3.wordpress.com Asiyah

      Say it, Tes!

    • msdebbs

      Sits, huffs, and mutters in corner with tes.

    • That Ugly Kid
    • http://stanoffewwords.wordpress.com Tristan

      don’t wanna hurt you sounds better that “I like you and all but not enough to tell these other girls I hate to see them frown but I rather see you smiling, so ima do me and you do you (well not too much because I’m not going to want anything to do with you, double standards and what not), and u know if we both free sometime we should get up. OK Thanks bye.”

      • http://testorshia.blogspot.com Tes

        Sounds good < honesty.

        "You're not feeling me that way? Well damn…okay then." – a Tes response.

        The thing of it is, not only are the dudes who do this not being honest they're wasting MY time. By putting me on a team of chicks when I'm clearly a single player, they take up all my energy and time and things I can't get back.

        • http://www.todisspits.blogspot.com MicTheMessenger

          You’re not a single player til you’re a single player.

          Tes i got mad love for you but (don’t you just HATE that “but”) it is what it is. Although we’ll all still feel how we feel, the problem is that we don’t want y’all to be hurt at all.

          Forgive a ninja for trying to NOT be a dog and still being a dog. WOOF.

          I guess we need to learn that you can’t defy nature. The main reason dudes do this is because we don’t wanna be the dog @$$ ninja that intentionally hurts women because they’re selfish. At the end of the day, the law of self-preservation will ALWAYS prevail. A man will pick himself over you, even if he doesn’t want to admit it. Blame us for deceiving you AND ourselves. That guilt and self-loathing for hurting someone you didn’t wanna hurt is a bish all on its own.

          Somebody has to be hurt to some degree. Just make sure it ain’t you.

          • http://testorshia.blogspot.com Tes

            Mad love to you too, homie, but (and yes, I do hate the “but”) “it is what it is” isn’t good enough for me. Especially when I’m the one always ending up hurt.

            • http://www.todisspits.blogspot.com MicTheMessenger

              Then homie, you’re gonna have to grow some claws.

          • jaytee

            to me, intentions don’t matter in this context. you’re in the same boat as dude who is an ‘intentional’ a-hole. you’re both dishonest. and both of your actions result in hurt.

            • http://www.todisspits.blogspot.com MicTheMessenger

              Well if the word forever ain’t in the context, hurt is inevitable.

              And it’s not dishonest. You already know that every dude that approaches is tryin to get in your draws. He damn sure ain’t tryin to cuddle and watch popcorn.

              And who ever said anything about dishonest? By omission, maybe. But let’s be honest. That boomerang is gonna hit EVERYBODY. For women it just hit in dating.

              And intentions ALWAYS matter. They’re the main reason we go through wahtever means we go through. Dudes ain’t running around breaking hearts for fun.

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

      I agree to a point. Be real here, while there are some guys who will indicate to you that you are way more than you are, there are also women who will make a lot of assumptions about where they stand, and usually very early on.

      So let me fix this: “Don’t tell me we’re something we’re not” is a lot more accurate than what you think. I can speak to you once a week and see you one other time that week and there are women (and men) who will inflate that into a true blue courtship.

      perhaps the response here is that both sides need to be honest with what’s really happening and act accordingly.

      • Iceprincess2

        Ding ding ding! That last paragraph FTW!

      • http://testorshia.blogspot.com Tes

        Uncle PJ, it’s a sore topic for me.
        The guy I “dated” two dudes back lead me on for a good six months. After the first week of dates he said “You know, you’re a good girlfriend.” Six months later he said “I didn’t want to you hurt you. You’re a good girl friend.”

        Its like I said above, sure the rejection hurts, but all that time he was trying to play house I had other dudes hitting me up like “I dig you, what’s up?” and I’m walking around like Boo-Boo the Fool saying “I’m spoken for” when I wasn’t.

        I learned though, so I can agree that intentions need to be stated up front. You may get rejected faster, but at least you can cut you’re “Brokenhearted” time way down.

    • Rewind

      Yea but guess what?

      You did it too. We all do it. We don’t even know when we’re doing it, and doing it well, but we’re doing it.

      It’s life. The hope is that someone can smack the sense in us early enough in life that we don’t leave a trail of broken hearts behind us.

      I never meant to hurt any of the girls I hurt, even if they hurt me. But I can’t take it back. I can just learn from what I’ve done. I could make excuses and say “well how come she doesn’t ask proper questions instead of just assuming”…but in the end, it’s my life, my choices, my mistakes, my regrets, my memories to reflect on to prevent it from happening again.

      that’s all I got.

      • http://testorshia.blogspot.com Tes

        I’mma tell you a story.

        The dude I “dated” two dudes back had a friend. Both of them liked me at the same damn time, but I had made my choice. The second I know the Wingman caught feelings, I took him for a walk and told him he was a nice guy, but not for me. He and I are still friends, while his d*uchetastic best friend is on my Hate list.

        Even the rebound guy knew from jump he was a rebound guy. Told him out the gate “We have nothing in common, but if you want to take me on a date, I’ll go.” The next day he wanted to be exclusive. Three days later, he “broke up” with me. *shrugs*

        So no, I haven’t done it. Now if a guy likes me and he doesn’t say anything? That’s not my fault. Closed mouths don’t get fed in my house.

        • Rewind

          Ok Tes. So you’re the exception. But clearly you know on the average, this almost never happens right?

          • http://testorshia.blogspot.com Tes

            If I had a nickel for every time someone’s said that to me…

            But I can see how, on average, it doesn’t end up that way. How does that get fixed though?

            • http://www.todisspits.blogspot.com MicTheMessenger

              It doesn’t.

            • Rewind

              What Mic said.

              Asking humanity itself to be responsible for anything is like asking any of the chicks from Basketball Wives to show their real hair.

              It’s not happening.

              • http://testorshia.blogspot.com Tes

                *sadfaces*

                • Rewind

                  But asking one person to do it is a totally different story.

                  Hence why we are having this conversation.

                  Now hug me.

                  • http://testorshia.blogspot.com Tes

                    *waits a moment*

                    *hugs*

                    Cause I don’t do sh*t on command, but when I want to.

                    And I just happened to want to so, ha!

  • DG

    Feeling a lil’ conflicted by this post, folk…

    The decent, altruistic part of me (80%) is nodding in total agreement and saying, “Yeah…yeah, fam.”

    However, the ##### in me (20%) is asking, “PJ, what are you doing? You can’t be revealing all that sh*t, man. In the name of all that is holy, stop snitching…”

    I’m a work in progress…sue me.

    • http://testorshia.blogspot.com Tes

      DG,
      You are requested to appear in VSB court on the charges of buffonery by the undersigned.

      X__Tes___

      Please appear periodically throughout the day as mandated by the Honorable Judge Judy Alex Brown.

    • msdebbs

      He’s not revealing anything a woman with sense already doesn’t know.

      • http://eboneeyes.wordpress.com Eb

        aye to the men!

    • Tx10inch

      However, the ##### in me (20%) is asking, “PJ, what are you doing? You can’t be revealing all that sh*t, man. In the name of all that is holy, stop snitching…”

      I know right? He all Rat pack ova here! Good post but you lettin em ALL IN PJ! *Points at heart* All UP IN HERE!!

      • That Ugly Kid

        “but you lettin em ALL IN PJ!”

        That’s what she said….

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

      LOL. I don’t view this as snitching. It’s more of a “we alll know this” so let me put it writing.

      Codification so to speak. Women know this too. Especially the ones who take a step back and evaluate their homeboys and their past relationships.

    • Rewind

      Nah B…let this happen.

      We need these women to get this shyte, because it’s getting old. The consistent fights about miscommunication and assumptions. If it was put on the table, and they at least attempted to hear our side of the story, we might not look like such azz-holes.

      Might not. Didn’t say it 100% full proof.

    • http://www.todisspits.blogspot.com MicTheMessenger

      i feel like somewhere, some ninja’s car windows won’t get busted cuz of this.

  • http://panamaenrique.wordpress.com Malik

    It took me a long time to figure out but the intent of my actions were only relevant to me because I wasn’t the one getting hurt by the moves I was making. I mean I can justify it and rationalize it however I wanted, but at the end of the day they still over there f*cked up because of it. Those justifications start to assuage your conscience less and less when you really desperately care about the people you’re hurting or intimately know the women getting hurt by other dudes.

    • http://testorshia.blogspot.com Tes

      *e-hugs*
      Oh Malik, with your dark, shining armor…

      • https://twitter.com/#!/IluminatiNYC Todd

        Don’t make me get the Scarlet Knight suit and joust. I rep my clique proper. :)

        • Tx10inch

          Their new uni’s on fiyah!

          • https://twitter.com/#!/IluminatiNYC Todd

            The Diet Coke helmets suck, but the uniforms themselves are fine. Flip the Red and the Chrome on the unis, and I think we have a winner there. :)

            • Tx10inch

              Nah, I’m diggin em. Of course they can’t touch Oregon…but, no one can.

        • http://testorshia.blogspot.com Tes

          I’m a lady who’s always down for a good joust though, so don’t tempt me. :)

      • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

        agreed.

    • Rewind

      Yup yup.

  • lovelyheartbroken

    wow! this speaks to my current situation. & its soo damn true. fuck men.

    • Iceprincess2

      Dang. That’s how u feel, ma? Lmao

    • Rewind

      Do better than that.

    • demondog06

      well…date other chicks……

  • Third Of August

    What’s good, VSB’s and VSS’s? Haven’t posted on here in a minute.

    All I will say is that I kind of agree with what She Who Reads said above….I was never one for giving a half-assed shot at multiple women. I’d rather give one woman a whole shot….but not in a “putting your eggs in one basket” kind of way, though.

    • That Ugly Kid

      Co-sign. If I’m talking getting into a relationship with a woman, then it’s only one woman. I know what it’s like to be jerked around. It sucks. So why does it make sense to do it to someone else? All it does is add to the cycle. Bad guy plays with innocent woman’s emotions, woman turns bitter, newly bittered woman plays with good guy’s emotions, good guy turns into Stevie J, rinse, repeat.

      • https://twitter.com/#!/IluminatiNYC Todd

        Bad guy plays with innocent woman’s emotions, woman turns bitter, newly bittered woman plays with good guy’s emotions, good guy turns into Stevie J, rinse, repeat.

        That last phrase though…LOL

        • Marshal

          This is true, but you know the resident Male Bashers ain’t trying to go past “Bad Guy palys with innocent Women’s emotions and they get hurt and bitter”….. in Their Ideological Bubble, that’s ALL their is and No Responsibility for what they do After that point

          • https://twitter.com/#!/IluminatiNYC Todd

            Sad but true. For a few (though thankfully far from the majority) women, every time a man blinks funny at a woman is an excuse to rob, abuse and assault every man in a 4 county radius of their home. Though I’m wondering if they’re looking for an excuse to do stuff that they wanted to do anyway. *smh*

          • Kema

            Ok Marshall… I will confess. In my past life I was the not so nice or innocent woman playing with guys emotions. However I didnt do it because I was bitter. It was as Malik said “the intent of my actions were only relevant to me because I wasn’t the one getting hurt by the moves I was making.”

            • Rewind

              But at least you see fault in it. There are many women out there who are playing men like a fiddle and see nothing wrong until they are about to lose status, and then pull Hail Marys out their ass to keep it, digging in these men even worse.

              We already know the same thing happens vice versa, the point is when do we get that we already hurt so many people.

      • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

        There’s truth there.

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

      I feel you, but I’m more or less talking to the point where you’re even getting there. Maybe you all know right away when you meet a chick that she’s the one. I’d wager that most men don’t.

  • Juiciest Mango

    If you don’t want to hurt, and are genuinely a “good guy”, then why hurt?

    Makes no sense at all. If you want to eat buffet style, by all means, go ahead! BUT, let Miss Shrimp, Miss Fried Rice, Miss General Tso, Miss Foong Foong Wa Lobster Tongs, KNOW that they are NOT special. If anything, you are merely sampling the different platters on offer and are not interested in exclusivity.

    I strongly believe in, “Do unto others as you would like them to do to you”! How would you like it if she misled you into thinking you are/were the only grain in her rice when there are/were many more?! C’mon!

    • Third Of August

      Miss Foong Foong Wa Lobster Tongs? lmao

      • Iceprincess2

        Ooh ooh, I wanna be miss crab rangoon! Those are my fave!

        • Juiciest Mango

          lol, IP!!

          Miss Crab Rangoon you are.

    • That Ugly Kid

      Wassup with Miss Shrimp, though? She single? Is she into black dudes? Tell her I’m interested. Because I just KNOW she got a mean curve on her. Her name says it all….

      • Juiciest Mango

        Yes. Yes. I’ve heard she likes those with crater inducing abilities….

        • That Ugly Kid

          Oh word? So she’s down with Galactus The Ultimate Destroyher?

          • Juiciest Mango

            She’s been down since forever, ever.

      • Kema

        Miss Shrimp? *Sings off key* “Turn on the lights…I’m lookin for her too…I heard she keep her promise and never turn on you

        • That Ugly Kid

          You stay away from my Shrimp!

    • http://asiyah3.wordpress.com Asiyah

      Mami! I was asking myself the same question!

      I like your puppies <3

      • Juiciest Mango

        thanks!! Aren’t they adorable?! Love animos! :)

    • whostolethesoul1

      “KNOW that they are NOT special”

      low standards have redefined the word “special” for far too many…

      • http://stanoffewwords.wordpress.com Tristan

        people want to feel special even if they not….Why girls these days gotta boyfriend, boo, bestie, brother, and twin.

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

      I agree with the point being raised by your question. That’s where the “we dont know what we’re doing comes in”. Which is as destructive as anything. I agree.

      We just have to do better in that regard. And until we actually take a step back and look at it (as via posts like this), then we can’t.

    • Rewind

      It’s never that easy. And you know that.

      Look at any young man in your family. Look at the way your family treats him. Listen to how he talks with his friends. Now tell me when he is of dating age, that he will go the world of dating women with a correct set of tools to be kind, gentle, and caring.

      He won’t. Do you know why? Because he’s been given so much information about how to make HIM happy. No one else. Just him. But you on the other hand? Or some of the young girls in your family…yall had a totally different set of treatment you were given. And that’s why your expectations are different from a man’s.

      Only life really tells us we had it wrong the whole damn time.

  • Negro Libre

    This is the equivalent of a woman writing an article apologizing to all the guys who wanted her, but ended up being put in the friend-zone. My response is well, “chalk it up to the game and keep moving”. Rejection is a part of the game and it’s part of life, and it hurts like sitting down on a chair and having your ass drop flat to the ground while the back of your head hits the edge of the seat. Are you just gonna stay on the ground in pain while everyone looks at you pointing fingers laughing hysterically, or are you gonna straighten yourself up, get back on your seat and keep doing what you came to do in the first place?

    Men have to worry about rejection in the beginning whereas women have to deal with rejection in the end…”the first shall be the last.” Women have the power to reject a man’s advance, men have the power to reject a woman’s love and commitment. For every guy whose placed his head down in shame, or who has tricked his way to a woman’s friend-zone shield, there’s a woman with a large spoon scooping up Ben and Jerrys Ice Cream, watching some Kathering Heigel flick, just trying to hold on to whatever dignity she has left.

    That’s why this Good guy dialogue kind of makes me sick. The game is fair, and it holds no prisoners. I’m sure most women don’t want to hurt guys, but they still do because the guys ain’t got what the woman needs or wants. They might get friendship as consolation prize but hey that’s the way it is man. If you’re a hunter in this game of love and sex, and everytime you are hunting you keep rustling the grass and losing your prey, ain’t nobody going to feel bad for you. You have to go out there and go figure it out or die hungry. That’s this game, nothing is going to change no matter what you say or how much empathy people give you for your failures.

    That’s the plight for women as well, the game is “Men want more than one woman, if you want the guy to stay with you and only you, you gotta do stuff that drags him away from the pursuit of other women,” now some women choose not to play this game and take themselves off the market, others decide to be rebellious and just eff whichever guy they want, just like some guys choose to take themselves out of the game, buy sex or strippers, or just go through Jergens like they have Clayton Bigsby skin. You can deny the existence of the game, or view it as some form of conspiracy against your own fantasy, but like Bane said to Batman: “Ah, yes… I was wondering what would break first…Your spirit or your body.”

    The game is fair: there are losers and there are winners. Anytime you look at the other side and you’re like damn, they’re losing, you’re ignoring the people on your side who lose and no body gives two f*cks about. No one cares about the fat chick who has vaccum sucking lips but only gets calls or texts after 10:45 PM Thursday-Saturday. Nobody gives a f*ck about the dude who spend 4 hrs talking to his girlfriend about all her male problems while feeling awkward about the hard on he struggles to hide anytime he has this chick on his mind. This isn’t high school where everyone gets a trophy, and the truth is it’s hard out there, and if you want to be on the winning team you gotta stop whining and figure out what you need to do to win that gold medal you crave. When women start giving off sympathetic pu$$y, men should start giving up sympathetic relationships. Until that time, pursue the game or eat the dust…end of story.

    • Negro Libre

      moderation

    • http://www.twitter.com/mcnairian5 Fiveisthenumber

      That was some real ish.

    • https://twitter.com/#!/IluminatiNYC Todd

      he game is “Men want more than one woman, if you want the guy to stay with you and only you, you gotta do stuff that drags him away from the pursuit of other women,” now some women choose not to play this game and take themselves off the market, others decide to be rebellious and just eff whichever guy they want, just like some guys choose to take themselves out of the game, buy sex or strippers, or just go through Jergens like they have Clayton Bigsby skin.

      Wow…this is some real truth here. Though can I say that with the possible exception of the rebellious chick, all of the above are just giving up on the Game? It’s serious, and it’s sad.

    • Tx10inch

      Men have to worry about rejection in the beginning whereas women have to deal with rejection in the end…”the first shall be the last.” Women have the power to reject a man’s advance, men have the power to reject a woman’s love and commitment.

      That hit me like a brick for some reason. Good words.

    • http://www.twitter.com/black_yoda Black Yoda

      Boom. There ya go. Let’s stop pretending women have no agency here, that they have no hand in shaping the relationship landscape before them. Men know what they’re doing. And women do too. Man up. Woman up. Or STFU. :-)

      • Juiciest Mango

        o_O!!

        I’ll address you on the other side, “STFU”—->no less with a smile…..

    • Marshal

      +1,000,000 The Herm Edwards version of Explaining Relationships and Emotions

    • SweetSass

      Nope.

      First scenario… the guy does things to suggest they find said woman special. That they are the only one he is seeing. That they might actually be in a relationship. That is a lie.

      Second. Woman tells guy she is only interested in being his friend. He holds hope for otherwise????????????? No lying involved. She is up front… and gave him respect that she doesn’t see him as anything more than a friend.

      GTFOH.

      • Negro Libre

        Stop it with all your pro-female propaganda lol.

        1st Scenario:

        First off, why does the guy try to make the girl feel she’s special – because he wants some ass. Is she gonna give him ass, if he doesn’t make her special? No. Why does he tell the girl she’s the only one he’s seeing – well the alternative is “Hey, I got at least five other women I’m seeing and I want to add you to my list.” Unless you rocking a pimp hat and a Katt Williams suit, that’s probably not gonna work. That they might be in a relationship – well, as was said before, dudes always want more than one, and most women ain’t willing to join a harem and want to be “the one”, so why not lie.

        2nd Scenario:

        Guy comes by hollas at woman, woman says she only wants to be friends. Fine, good woman. Still the guy has gotten rejected, and women always say “Oh well I was respectful”, “Oh I was honest”, yet they still never go out there and go up to a guy they want and say, “Oh I want you”, nah they wait because they don’t want to be in the same position again. As far as him waiting around and hoping, don’t jumpoffs hope they will one day be girlfriends, then hope from there they will become wives. They might be dumb and delusional but we don’t view them as evil for doing so.

        Smh, the game is the game, you just want to have a monopoly on the woe-is-me or woe-is-women position, where men are your oppressors and the cause of all your issues in your love life. Which is fine, just know that when you put the clothes and all the expensive watches in the car and poor gasoline on all of that stuff and light it on fire, unlike Angela Basset, you will see some metal bars by the end of the day.

        • https://twitter.com/#!/IluminatiNYC Todd

          Don’t bother, Negro Libre. It’s a lost cause. Since her standard for male behavior is so high that even some members of Seal Team 6 who went to get bin Laden aren’t man enough, there’s no way for a mere mortal to compete. Maybe one day, she’ll loosen up her standards, but that’s asking a lot. Unless you’ve been sexually assaulted and tortured in the past year or so, yet still are doing well. Then you just might meet her humble, meager standards. ;)

        • Ms. Bridget

          What is the friend zone? Is it anything more than a man pretending to be a woman’s platonic friend in hope of one day getting in her pants? And this man is a victim? This has always confused me.

          • https://twitter.com/#!/IluminatiNYC Todd

            It’s more a woman keeping a man around that 1) she sees as nothing more than a friend when 2) she asks him to do boyfriend-like stuff and 3) knows homeboy wants to be her boyfriend.

            To flip it around, imagine if I had you cook for me, took you around to meet the friends and fam, knowing good and hell well I just want to smash, and I don’t want you to be the wifey. How would YOU feel?

            • SweetSass

              This happens all the time to women. Go over to Clutch and hear the lamentations.

            • Ms. Bridget

              I would feel like a fool, especially if you told me upfront that’s all you wanted.

          • Negro Libre

            Jumpoff = Friend-zone.

            It’s that simple. I’ve never meant a jumpoff who didn’t see herself as a victim, when she was with a guy who didn’t want to commit to her. And I’ve never met a dude who was in the friend-zone who didn’t see himself as a victim, and wanted a woman to give it up.

            Women get confused because here’s how they view things:
            Man wants only sex – He’s a nuissance.
            Man wants relationship – Good man

            Whereas with men:
            Woman wants only sex: YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
            Woman wants a relationship: F*CKKKKKK!!!!

            When you look at us thru your own eyes only you come to you false conclusions about us, and when we look at you thru our eyes only we do the same.

            • Wild Cougar

              the difference is whether you tell the person what you want from them. The man in the friend zone is always told. The jump off is never told. because if she is aware and participatsting, she’s not really a jump off.

              • Rewind

                No, not every man is told he is just a friend. Maybe some women give that courtesy, but quite a few don’t.

                Some women go as far as to say “I gave you hints”….but what good is a hint if it wasn’t put out for all to see?

              • Negro Libre

                What both you and Sweetsass are doing is you’re redefining terms based on a woman’s perspective, rather than their own independent meaning.

                A guy is in the friend-zone, based on what he wants to be not on what the woman declares him to be. The same way a jump-off is a woman who wants to be in a relationship, but only is getting sex out of the guy.

                The declaration or telling a woman something is simply the rejection. A woman tells you she only wants to be friends, that’s the rejection. A man tells you he only wants to have sex when you want more that’s the rejection.

                What happens afterwards is one party or another relying on hope, that the person they want will change their mind. Whether it happens or not, good luck to them. But just like one person always has a right to reject someone always has the right to pursue even if it leads no where. You’re not evil because you’re dumb, neither are you evil because you want to give something to someone that they don’t want.

              • That Ugly Kid

                “The man in the friend zone is always told.”

                Yeeaa, no. We are not. Don’t know where women are getting this from.

            • SweetSass

              Jumpoff =/= friend zone.

              The main difference is honest information.

              If you are willing to have the courage to tell someone she is a jump off to her face and deal with the consequences… that is the right thing to do. It is not ‘effective’ if your goal is being shady and trying to pull a fast one.

              When a guy is told “Let’s just be friends.” That is it. He is being given the option to stick around and get friendship or hit the road.

          • That Ugly Kid

            “Is it anything more than a man pretending to be a woman’s platonic friend in hope of one day getting in her pants?”

            No. It’s usually men who genuinely, really value you and want to be in a relationship with you, but just never really given the chance. Meanwhile, the female has him do a bunch of sh*t she knows he’ll do because she knows how he feels about her.

            • Wild Cougar

              He does know how to say No, right? He’s not a victim.

              • Rewind

                While that may be true…that’s not exactly fair either.

                Any woman who tells a man what to do to get a woman’s attention usually repeats the lines of how to not piss a woman off, but also to be persistant in his pursuit of her.

                But when putting that logic to the test, things get murky and it never plays out the way we were told. So we end up making mistakes because we are working on the advice we were given, not realizing it was bad advice.

            • Ms. Bridget

              In short, it’s taking advantage of a his feelings. Gotcha!

          • http://asiyah3.wordpress.com Asiyah

            The friend zone doesn’t victimize men. I don’t see a problem with the friend zone. I only see a problem when anyone, male or female, puts someone else in this category yet doesn’t respect boundaries. Basically, when you friendzone someone yet use them to do couple things when you can’t find someone to do that with.

        • SweetSass

          Call a jump off, a “jump off” to her face. Show some courage. If she leaves… then that is her right. But LYING… is LYING… and makes you a scum bag. If she stays, well, she is as thirsty as you.

          Call a man to his face that is he only a friend. If he sticks around and does things like change your oil… he is a dumb ass. But he a dumb ass who was given the information.

          These two scenarios are not at all alike. One person is being given false info, the other one is being given brutally honest info.

      • http://www.twitter.com/black_yoda Black Yoda

        And what things does the guy do? According to PJ, simply talking to woman will be interpreted by her as trying to make her feel special. So maybe he’s not lying to her. Maybe she’s just lying to herself. Men and women both know the deal. It’s up to you to recognize it and act accordingly.

      • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

        yeah, im with Negro Libre here. you’re kind of full of sh*t with this one. don’t pretend like women are all saintly glittered fairies of truth and honesty. it’s not always the case and you know it.

        • http://asiyah3.wordpress.com Asiyah

          Mmmhmmm. And these women who do that ruin it for other women who don’t partake in said shenanigans. Let’s not pretend here like men have all the power and do all of the effed up things. Women are just as involved and just as guilty. And no, I’m not blaming the victim, but it’s one thing to reject a guy and say “we CAN be friends” (giving him that option) and it’s another thing to reject a guy, friendzone him, and request certain perks from him just because he likes you, which sadly, I see a lot of girls do. Men take advantage. Women take advantage. It’s tough out there!

        • SweetSass

          No, you’re full of sh*t with this one.

          Putting someone in the friend zone means sitting down and tell him, “I don’t see you as a romantic partner… just as a friend.” What he chooses to do after that either makes him a dumbass waiting for her to change her mind… or he can cut loose. If he cuts loose… she accepts the consequences he won’t be picking up her dry cleaning no mo.

          Being a LYING a$$ however, you are not giving the correct information for the woman you are dealing with to make her own choice to bounce or stick around and not be treated as well as she would like.

          LYING is the crux here vs. BRUTAL honesty.

          Honesty > lying.

          • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

            you right. b/c that always happens. EVERY chick who has ever put a ninja in the friend zone has been completely upfront.

            get off the bath salts.

            a lot of people end up in the situations they are in and realize it. there aint always some upfront convo.

            • SweetSass

              The “friendzone” is a result from being told “Let’s just be friends.”

              Prior to that… you are just some dude who knows a woman… who hasn’t slept with you yet.

              You aren’t owed shYt. She doesn’t have to be nice to you… she doesn’t have to sleep with you… you aren’t dating… wtf?

              So now… you guys are just defining ‘friend zone’ as any women who won’t f&ck you? Really? Wtf?

              Friendzone is a myth. It should be renamed… “you are rejected and move on with your life” zone.

        • forgot my name

          I don’t think that is what she said. The assumption is not that all women are “saintly fairies of truth and honesty,” but that in order to be “friendzoned,” at some point a woman had to make the guy aware that he was just a friend. Could the timing make this relevation just as callous as the guy who doesn’t know when to cut off communication? Definitely! But, Negro Libre doesn’t take issue with that. When he plays back the scenarios, he admits that the girl told the guy upfront that she only saw him as a friend. He seems to be upset that the guy will get vilified for holding out hope for a chance with his friend. Which is actually unresponsive to Sweet Sass’s comment which makes the point that lying to some else to get what you want (inducement) is different from lying to yourself about someone who doesn’t want you (delusion). It’s actually not even a gendered argument.

          • forgot my name

            I take too long to post my thoughts. ;)

          • SweetSass

            THANKYOU!
            THANKYOU!
            THANKYOU!
            THANKYOU!
            THANKYOU!
            THANKYOU!

          • Wild Cougar

            Exactly. Gender has nothing to do with it. You lie . you’re wrong. Period. End of story.

          • Negro Libre

            I’m glad you used the word “seems”, because your conclusion is incomplete and misguided.

            If you read my post about how a female jumpoff = a guy in the friend-zone for some more clarity as to what I’m saying. The guy just like the woman is a victim of the game, not of the woman herself: she just rejected him, which I never implied makes women evil (she took it that way, which is typical) because they want something more, but they can’t get it.

            She’s mad at guys who fall in the friend-zone because they don’t give women the upper hand to decide the guy’s fate (by with-holding the fact that they want her for sex, she never considers in addition that the guy might actually want to be in a relationship as well with her), in other words for lying. But that’s like men getting mad at jumpoffs who hide the fact that they want to be in relationships, when you’re just f*cking them. It shows an ignorance of a perspective and the ability to dispassionately make judgements about two people’s separate interests and how they collide with one another.

            She just wants power over a dude who’s into her, and she’s not willing to admit it so she hides it by victimizing her sex.

            • Ms. Bridget

              She’s mad at guys who fall in the friend-zone because they don’t give women the upper hand to decide the guy’s fate

              Did she say that? Or did she just disagree that friend zone=jumpoff? You’re reaching.

          • That Ugly Kid

            “but that in order to be “friendzoned,” at some point a woman had to make the guy aware that he was just a friend.

            This is not always the case. So, no. Us being told, “we’re just friends,” doesn’t happen as frequently as you think it does.

          • http://www.BlackLatinaFabulous.wordpress.com Maris

            “lying to some else to get what you want (inducement) is different from lying to yourself about someone who doesn’t want you (delusion).”
            THIS!!!!

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

      There’s a lot of truth here.

      • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

        ***nodding head***

    • Juiciest Mango

      Listen,

      I HATE what you have to say, but it’s the truth

    • Rewind

      Well gotdamn.

      The greatest story never told.

    • http://asiyah3.wordpress.com Asiyah

      Free Black Man,

      You spoke wisely. Carry on free spirit.

    • GirlSixx

      Ouch!!!!

    • demondog06

      leave it up to BM to bring some grown man real shitisim to the convo.

      personally i’m tired of the whining.

      this is the game people play it or sit the fuhcks down.

      we are all selfish a$$ creatures….ALL OF US…. dudes and chicks alike. it’s only when one doesn’t play by our rules do folks get there feelings all touched.