Dear Champ: I’ve been casually dating this guy for a few months now, and I’m beginning to develop feelings for him. Ok. I’m lying. We haven’t been “dating” really, just having sex once a week or so. Yes. We are the dreaded f-buddies. Anyway, my feelings for him have grown, and I want to know if it’s possible sleep your way into a man’s heart?
This question recalls a pretty colorful conversation I had several years ago with a couple of high school kids. We were discussing the idea of college, and although they were both college-bound, they argued that a college degree wasn’t a prerequisite for success; citing the careers of people such as Bill Gates, Naomi Campbell, and Wiz Khalifa as prime examples. (Yes, I do realize that this was probably the only time in recorded history that Bill Gates, Naomi Campbell, and Wiz Khalifa were cited in the same argument. Thanks for asking.)
While I conceded that A) college isn’t for everybody (If it was, it would be free.), B) it’s quite possible to be successful without a college degree, and C) having a degree doesn’t ensure success, I told them to think of degrees in basketball terms. Basically, trying to make it without a degree is like shooting a j from half-court. Sure, there’s a chance that you’ll make it, but your odds increase the closer you get to the rim.
To continue the analogy, contested three pointer = college degree, wide open three pointer = master’s/professional degree, foul shot = PhD, and lay-up = being born into the Bush family.
Ok, what was my point? Oh yeah, the “sleeping into a man’s heart” thing.
Anyway, while it’s possible to sleep your way into a man’s heart, it’s also possible to make a half-court jumpshot while blindfolded, covered in honey, and running away from a gang of especially angsty warthogs. Also, for most guys, you’ll probably have to sleep together approximately 600 times before the “heart” thing becomes a consideration. Since you’re having sex once a week or so, at this rate, he’ll completely smitten by June of 2024.
My advice? The f-buddy relationship is an inherently doomed proposition that isn’t for the faint of heart, and it sounds like you need to end this arrangement before you end up busting the windows in his car.
Dear Champ: Why is it so difficult for people to understand the viewpoints of those that have experienced differently than them? After trying to drive my points home in the Nice Guys Finish Last blog, I have never felt so isolated and misunderstood in my life.
Because the idea of a black man having actual dating struggles is the complete antithesis of the prevailing idea that we’re all carefree mandingos with limitless romantic options, I understand why it’s difficult for some — and by “some” I mean “some black women” — to have any type of empathy or sympathy for a black “nice guy” finishing last, especially since their own dating acrimony has been widely publicized, scrutinized, and politicized.
It’s almost like a white guy complaining about racial discrimination and intimidation. Even if he’s completely justified in his claims, it’ll take him getting actually murdered by a clan of Hebrew Isrealities outside of The Gap before anyone actually says “You know what? I think he had a point.”
With that being said — and if you are who I suspect you are — there’s a way to give a viewpoint without being preachy, condescending, and antagonistic, and I’ve found that many “misunderstood” people haven’t quite grasped that. Because of that, what could have been empathy ends up being annoyance, and your words and feelings get lost in a self-defeatist haze of “I don’t want people to hear my story. I just want them to feel like sh*t for sh*tting on me.”
Dear Champ: Is there a way to tell if a man is packing heavy equipment or not?
He has a big tool belt? I don’t know. I mean, from my vantage point, it seems like women run the option gamut when trying to figure this out, using pretty much anything from “hand size” to “the way he drinks milk” as a concrete indicator of a guy’s equipment.
My personal favorite is their self-fulfilling “confidence” prophecy. Basically, if a confident guy is proven to be blessed, he’s genuinely confident because of his blessings. On the other hand, if a confident guy is proven to be, um, cursed, he’s overcompensating for his shortcomings.
Basically, everybody is wrong about everything, all of the time. (and by “everybody is” I mean “women are”)
Dear Champ: I’m a newly single, attractive 36 yr old woman with 3 children. I recently separated from my husband after 18 yrs of marriage. I’m not looking for a relationship now, but I’m interested in dating. How do I go about meeting handsome, nice, respectable, and available men?
A couple games into my freshman year, we played the University of Kentucky on our home court. This also happened to be one of the years that Kentucky won the national championship. Now, although we weren’t exactly slouches, we weren’t on Kentucky’s level, and it showed. We kept the game somewhat competitive in the first half, but their size and talent just proved to much for us to handle, and we ended up losing by 30 points.
Predictably, when we had our film session the next day, our coach was pretty upset with us. But, midway through the film session, he stopped the tape, hit the eject button and said “You know what, guys? I can’t bullsh*t you all anymore. That team has five guys that are going to play in the NBA, and they’ll probably win the national championship this year. You guys gave a great effort…but they’re just much, much better than us. There’s no shame in that.”
I’m telling this story because it would be a disservice for me to gas your head up with some pseudo inspirational “Just get back on the horse, and things will take care of itself” type of speech, ignoring the fact that your baggage — your martial situation (not yet divorced), relative inexperience with dating, and kids (I know kids aren’t supposed to be referred to as “baggage,” but in the dating sense they’ll be considered us such) — is probably going to make things difficult for you. This doesn’t mean that dating will be hopeless. There are available and worthy men out there, but you just might have to do a bit more work — online dating, attending events out of your usual comfort zone, etc. — to find them.
With that being said, I have two things I want to add
1. Wait until the divorce is final before you start thinking about getting back out there.
2. Wait until the divorce is final before you start thinking about getting back out there, and then wait another three months.
Half of your life has been spent being a wife and mother, and since it probably wouldn’t be a stretch to assume that this is how you’ve defined yourself, I’d advise you to take this time to learn a bit more about yourself. Travel if you’re able to. Get a few new hobbies. Hit the gym. Go back to school. But, don’t run out and try to fill your “void” with TNAN (The Next Available N*gga).
I’m also suggesting to wait a bit before you get back out there because I’m assuming that since you got married at such a young age, you probably didn’t experience the same opportunity to be young and carefree as most others. And, people in these types of “delayed youth” situations tend to act out –and act irresponsibility — when they finally get the opportunity to, something your responsibilities and (assumed) dating nativity don’t really allow you to do.
Relax and take a few deep breaths before you decide to get in the pool. The water can be quite cold, and I’d hate to see you drown because the shock wouldn’t allow you to swim.
*You can contact Dear Champ at Formspring.me/AskChamp and contact@verysmartbrothas.com*
—The Champ
First comment?
Arguably less useless… I bet money the lass in question one knew your answer and wanted as they all do, the reason why it would take 600 times, minimally, to cop a feeling.
She needs to read “He’s Just Not That Into You”
“Arguably less useless… I bet money the lass in question one knew your answer and wanted as they all do, the reason why it would take 600 times, minimally, to cop a feeling.”
The best advice I have ever gotten on the subject of trading sex for love came from a guy friend in his early 20’s when I was still in high school and a virgin.
He said that for men sex is a biological urge like using the bathroom… they are grateful that the toilet is there for use, but its not a place that they would want to spend the night… let alone a lifetime.
That shut down my interest in casual sex…
Because as an observation I found out he was right ~JS
“He said that for men sex is a biological urge like using the bathroom… they are grateful that the toilet is there for use, but its not a place that they would want to spend the night… let alone a lifetime.’
truer words never spoken – skins is like air
I just got through trying casual sex. It’s not for me at all, but it was a learning experience. but do guys really think of women this way? That’s sad.
I would take this as a commentary on women, but just a statement of fact so to speak. Sex being a physical response to most men is an evolutionary by product.
Oddly enough that is actually encouraging.
What they are saying is that men need more than sex to develop feelings for a woman. They need relationship. Women need relationship in order to feel comfortable in having sex with a man. Theoretically, with a little time and patience both can achieve the same goal and end up in the same place.
.
I meant to say.. I would NOT take that as a social commentary against women.
“She needs to read He’s Just not that Into You”
Yes… Or the Qur’an, Bible or somethin’.
“Biological urge like using the bathroom”…
Yes, this is the best way to define casual romps. No, it isn’t the best way to define the way men think about it in general. Depending on the scenario both genders can have the same reaction.
Well hell if that doesn’t define men and casual sex then IDK what will…
*Takes note of 2024 * So there is hope? I wont even be 40 by then.
keep hope alive and sh*t
Your candor is refreshing. And (I think) your advice to the newly-single 36 year-old woman with 3 kids is dead on.
Related to the first topic, I would also be interested in knowing your (and anyone else’s) thoughts on “getting it out of the way”….this conversation has come up soooo many times in “very smart” circles over the past few weeks with, of course, no resolution. If two individuals are feeling each other, but there is clearly a level of awkwardness and sexual tension that is making things uncomfortable, does it make sense “get it out of the way” so THEN you can move on to really getting to know the persons hopes and dreams, lol….or is that an oxymoron?
I feel like this is a topic that VSB may have covered before…if so, please point me to that post. Thx
I say DON’T get it out of the way. Sexual tension will have to be dealt with individually because, too many times, women have been fooled by the guy’s argument to “get it out of the way”, and then found out that, once they did get to know him, they didn’t like him, and now that’s another dyck she can’t take back…
I say DON’T get it out of the way. Sexual tension will have to be dealt with individually because, too many times, women have been fooled by the guy’s argument to “get it out of the way”, and then found out that, once they did get to know him, they didn’t like him, and now that’s another dyck she can’t take back…
I would highly suggest you actually get to know each other if you plan on having anything beyond a sexual relationship. If you’re just curious about each other sexually and you really aren’t concerned with whether or not there could be more, DO IT! Be forewarned, men kind of have a tendency to have their brains clouded by snapper so if you drop that thang on him and he starts talking less and trying to beat more, don’t be completely shocked.
LOL girl it is very possible to snatch a man up with great poon. I see it done everyday. I see tons of
stupidmen with women who don’t compliment them at all…then I find out she’s a good cook and gives good head. lol Guys fall for tricks and p*ssy all the time. Sad.Wow I sound so hood right now. My bad, I’m listening to Weezy 6’7 right nah.
LMAO @ SFG.
but you speak truth.
i’d go off about how ‘good girls’ stay single and cold while certain chicks stay at least booed up for the winter..but that would just make me a bitter angry black woman right?
*doesnt await confirmation before nodding head
so i keep myself busy with projects, travel and have skype dates with dudes i’ll never get to smang in real life. lol.
If you can’t beat em…. But really though, the extra fertilization those chicks receive probably isn’t making the grass any greener on that side.
if i cant beat em.. then sleep with a dude on the 1st date and to never be upgraded past jumpoff status? hmm.. sounds appealing..but i’ll pass.
guess i’ll stick to marathons of the wire and missing the NFL once its gone.
I just went to a wedding where the girl gave it on the first night WITH another woman, I told you that remember? They’re in love and got married. It’s really just s.ex for men…it’s what comes with it that makes them fall.
Nope…this dude I was friends with got it in with his now wife on date one. He really liked her though so he kept dating her and it worked out.
Definitely not the norm, but I’ve witnessed it first-hand happen.
I’ve wanged out women on the first date that I dated afterwards. I’ve met women that were wack and I attempted to beat anyway. In all reality, if a dude doesn’t see any future in you and you don’t put out, you won’t hear back from him. If you have some potential, you can put out or hold out and he’ll still call you back the next day.
I’m right there with ya. I tried joining ‘em, but if you don’t decide you’re into casual sex on your own, you DEFINITELY won’t like it once you do it. You’ll just keep trying to make your jumpoff your dude and he’ll keep enjoying all the effort you put into the “casual” relationship while he does nothing.
After my last disastrous relationship, I thought I’d try the casual thing. I thought I must be doing something wrong in the relationship area, so perhaps casual was good. It was never my thing and I didn’t see the value in having sex with no connection when masturbation existed, but I tried it for the last six months and, as I knew, it’s NOT MY THING. I’m glad I explored, but it was a, basically, painful experience to put yourself out there repeatedly with many dudes who would never care about you, let alone love you. That didn’t feel nice at all.
So, don’t do it, lol.
“Many dudes”? How many?
O.
LOL. Wow. No comment. I guess I did kinda put myself on blast, lol. Not MANY. A few. Several.
*Gives KKC Mr.Spock raised eyebrow look – while taking a step backwards…*
O.
KB,
Speaking of The Wire, I’m watching it as I type this, Season Four. As for what you and the ladies are talking about…
Please note that SFG mentioned things about the gal did outside of sex to keep the guy – most notably, cooking. Now this isn’t as big an issue for Black Women as it is for many White Women, but it still is worth noting that a Woman who has knowledge of Cookery instantly bumps her overall point avg.rating up versus gals who merely rely on their bodies alone. That, along with other Wifely Arts, makes the difference btw a Woman being a Wifey, or a Sidejawn.
I’m just sayin’.
O.
@ Mr Obsidian
I hear you. I do. I’d like to think im wife material. heck..was even recently told im wife material..but i try not to even pretend that the features/attributes i have are any different from the many vsss (very smart single sistas) out there and that it entitles me to a man.
i could start listing my features, but could be accused of embellishing/hiding behind the anonymity of the internet. which would be a fair accusation. i do have some references though via this site’s community. lol.
at the end of the day, the person who wants to have and keep all parts of me, inside and out will win. until then, i’ll keep busy, take advantage of having chefs to help me grocery shop and run my football pool.
hehe you said smang.
(at least this way you wont get a cootch contusion *shrugs*)
Dead @ Cooch Contusion!!
@Gem
im still looking for a carpenter.. tee hee…
Like Meech said, the grass aint greener boo boo. The whole good guy/girl finish last theory is why work for what you want when you can get it easy elsewhere. That’s why the idea that you can’t eff/cook into his heart is true and false at the same time. Many people don’t see that wolf in sheep’s clothing because they do/say what they want. It makes it harder for good women like you. You don’t want those guys anyway. There’s nothing wrong with getting your physical needs met if you can handle it…You’re real with yourself and that’s all you can be at the end of the day.
@smartfoxgirl
I have to disagree.. temporarily a girl will get a guy with good poon, but I dont know many sexi-in they way into marriage and long term relationships..
and thats because I dont care how good the s.e.x is at some point it takes a back seat to life and if all you offering is that?
it wears out. literally
Of course I agree with you
I was being funny. I do see it but these men are often easily tricked or lacking life knowledge. lol
You gotta understand that some dudes are just simps and all it takes is some attention and they will wife up whatever random boogerwolf with some good chewing (and possibly good credit) that comes strolling along.
@davidruffin..
i am so mad you said boogerwolf. LMAO!!!!!
If you wanna know the size of his jank ask for a pic. Technology has removed the guesswork…lol As far as effing your way into a dude’s heart–good luck with that. Do not get into a FB situation if you know that you’re the kind that can’t handle it. This goes for dudes too. Either way ish can get real ugly, real fast.
Co-sign on the peen pics. Shoe sizes? Thumb to pinkie span? Length of his middle finger? #weoffthat.
*daps* chica.
you already know!
I think a reference object needs to be included in the picture as well (like a quarter or a baby giraffe) because I dont know how many times Ive ordered things off the net, that were actually a lot smaller than I thought they would be.
@ Teezy,
Yup! So true! *laughing*
@ Teezy…lmao!! There was a kat on twitter who was displaying his jank next to a glade can and a comcast remote…bwhaaha Personally, I don’t need any objects to compare, I’m a pretty good judge of “character”.
LOL well you are a far better judge of “character” than I . Iimma need to see that glade can becuz I would be trying to do some complex aspect ratio calculations.
I love it when my people understand math!
Twitter is straight foolishness for this…wow! LMAO
Nothing like having someone say, “take the beast baby” and all you can see is a thumb! Womp-womp!
As a side question though….Do all men have a picture of their bald-headed yogurt slinger or are willing to take one?
I haven’t had anyone refuse to play show & tell. It never hurts to ask.
We know Brett Favre does…
“bald-headed yogurt slinger”
Can somebody come pick me up off the floor !!!!!!!!!!!
bald-headed yogurt slinger
why. must. i. die.
tezzybaby… what did i do to youuuuuuu??
lmaoooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
LMAO!!!! This was funny!!!
@ Tezzy
so true, i’ve gotten a few pics myself that told one story only to find in real life that the story was something else completely. angles and grease and lightening etc made something look like the actual Eiffel tower when it was actually just a miniature figurine of such… the reference object is the best look, now that really takes the guess work out of it!!!
@ Yoles
*cardiac arrest* @ “angles and grease and lightening etc made something look like the actual Eiffel tower when it was actually just a miniature figurine of such…
Another point of reference that is kinda depressing is a baggy condom. Yes, I’ve seen that before.
*dead* @ peen reference object
I think a reference object needs to be included in the picture as well (like a quarter or a baby giraffe)
I always snap mine standing next to a small Volkswagon.
LMAO sometimes i wonder why i e-quit you, ex-e-boo
*daydreams*
small volkswagon you say…
*books flight to Houston stat.
Did this kneegro just say a car??? CTFU!!!! I can imagine you saying this too…lol
*what up head nod*
Hey, Miss T-Lee
Dang….Brett Farve-ing the “paynus”….LMAO! Agreed on the FB situation.
Hey Legitimate Soul…long time!! I’m mad @ you using Brett Favre as a verb. LoL!! Yeah the FB situation is all fun & games…until someone starts whylin’ out.
Favre-ing, Favre-esque, Farve-tastic, Favre-appointing…
These all work.
If you wanna know the size of his jank ask for a pic. Technology has removed the guesswork
LMAO!! girl yes!!!! ask for a Favre/Yeezy or just get to feelin it for your dang self. no need to be disappointed once clothes start coming off *shrugs*
If he’s holding it with his thumb and finger its small. If he has his whole hand wrapped around it, well you can figure out what’s enough for you by what’s leftover.
So this is what objectification feels like. Not as bad as you all make it out to be.
I Do not know about that. Objectification is dehumanizing. Where as woman can buy natural implants to make themselves more attractive(lips,chest, glutes), guys will never have that 12×5 no matter how much money is in the bank.
So, it makes even less sense to objectify and humiliate men that have very little to no control over it. If this is seriously how things are weighed given a pleasure by measure ratio, then why not simply be deviant? Even in jest, the truth hurts.
Conservation is an important part of self worth.
and women can reupholster their Gines.
Women are jerks.
@Sage of Silence
“Women are jerks.”
My initial reaction is to laugh at your candidness. : )
But my authentic reaction is “ouch”! : (
We still like you, though. *pookie face*
“Women are jerks.”
Yep we are.
I’m perfectly fine with that.
I like the usage of the word jerk. We should bring it back.
You do realize, of course, is the reason why females have to, and CAN augment is because some man decided that it was a necessary thing to do?
So quit your whining..Don’t start none, there won’t be none.
Huh??? Implants are not gender specific. Although I think this is going to be gross… I have dissected many a male cadaver with some help in the nether regions. Guys can and do just as easily go get surgery for length and/or girth or whatever other physical malady burrowing in their mind.
I think most if not all women agree that it is the operation of the machinery thats most important (although I cant deny the role of size).
@CNotes I ain’t mad and I still love women. I’m not even saying that all women are jerks. And I will always have the utmost respect for women who are women. (Not trying to be anything other than a woman, I.e. ho/whore/man/slut ~#I’mjustsayin’)
@miss t-lee I’m glad you found my thoughts as self-affirming and have the self-respect to OWN it. I respect you for that. Also, I admire your honesty. Kudos.
@Medium Meech, What? I didn’t know it was retired. I feel left out.
@Tonya, sure BUTTTTTTT just because you CAN sell your soul to the D’evil doesn’t mean that you should or even endorse others or even Condone others in doing so.
@TezzyBaby, all I’ve ever heard was that there was “No way to responsibly and actually improve the male zhex organ.” I’m saddened that you’ve seen so much but happy that you are getting your experience in.
I just don’t know what to think anymore. Tezzy is ruining my perspective on the customizability of our bodies with plastic or the lack thereof. THANK YOU????
@Sage of Silence
I feel what you’re saying. : )
Of course anything’s possible. But how often do once-a-week f**k sessions turn into a long term relationship? I’m more curious about those probablities…
Aww man Champ. As soon as I read that question from “the nice guy,” I had the same inkling you had. And I agree with your response. I often lurk in the comment section and take in what’s being discussed. This particular “nice guy” never seems too “nice,” based on what I’ve read. Condescending and antagonistic are apropos descriptions. The self-pitying rants aren’t indicative of a gentleman who prides himself on being “the nice guy.” Just be nice for goodness’ sake, not due to some false sense of self- righteousness
I agree on your description of the “nice guy” and while I suppose there may be 2 or 3 nice guys in the world that women may not be attracted to, a particular scene in The Social Network comes to mind when Mark Zucherburgh (played by Jesse Eisenberg) was on the date with a girl and he insulted her. She said something along the lines of “for the rest of your life you are going to think women dont like you because you are too much of a nerd or smart, but its really because you’re an a-hole.”With that being said, nice guys are never as nice as they think they are.
“and while I suppose there may be 2 or 3 nice guys in the world that women may not be attracted to..”
and I make 4. *DiddyBops*
“With that being said, nice guys are never as nice as they think they are.”
does that mean if i’m a nice guy, should i just say i’m an a**hole so that i got the jedi mind trick thing going on? lol
No, you should just be nice. Just don’t be stupid when it comes to women. By stupid I mean don’t be so nice that she’s getting your money and driving your car to ANOTHER man’s house.
Nice isn’t the catch all that men seem to think it is. It’s just one thing on the scale that helps. Like a beautiful woman…if that’s all she has going for her, while she may be great to look at, she’s not going to fulfill most men’s long term wants in a woman (or she might…but chances are most dudes want more than just a pretty face.) Same thing wth the nice guy….being nice will only get you so far.
Rule #1 of being a nice guy is not saying you’re a nice guy.
Hello!
Thank you for saying this…
Nice Chump.
“With that being said, nice guys are never as nice as they think they are.”
I agree..some of them are not nice at all…
With that being said, nice guys are never as nice as they think they are.
i definitely agree with this statement. having had my run in with more than a few self-proclaimed “nice guys.” what they meant to say is that theyre “lame guys who cant get a date” but have really good credentials (degrees, pedigree, and good salary). but they often times lack the social aptitude and/or personality to attract women and keep them interested. but because they typically lack any real self awareness, they will never realize that its their stank/awkward attitude that keeps them “finishing last”
*waving my church fan* Preach! You pretty much summed it up
Hi, everyone… long time lurker, first time commenter.
I have to agree with Dreamer here– I get suspicious when I see men who identify themselves as a “nice guy” because they often turn out to be the opposite. What’s really interesting about this particular letter is the fact that he felt “isolated and misunderstood” after “trying to drive his points home”. It makes me wonder if understanding and togetherness only come if people agree with him– I’d have a hard time thinking that the commenters here didn’t understand the points made, assuming that they were in English and were at least loosely coherent.
Champ, pardon me if I missed the earlier debate on this, but did you mean that black women don’t buy that black “nice guys” could have dating troubles because of the belief that black men in general have no problem finding someone to be with? If so, not so sure I agree. Can you clarify?
Mia
“Champ, pardon me if I missed the earlier debate on this, but did you mean that black women don’t buy that black “nice guys” could have dating troubles because of the belief that black men in general have no problem finding someone to be with?”
yeah, that’s exactly what I was saying. i dont think all black (and non-black) women feel this way, but I do believe that many black women assume that all black men have a much easier go of it in regards to dating than they do.
I would say that on average, black men probably do.
Wow. Not only where you right about the sympathy, but it seems that black women deny than nice black guys even exist in the first place. The pathology runs deep indeed.
Naw, we…well I, acknowledge the nice black guy. I’ve dated the self proclaimed “nice black guy” and what I’ve found is that he’s not nice. It’s like a woman saying she can cook just because it’s expected that, as a woman, you should know how to cook. She really can’t cook…but she proclaims her food the second coming of Bobby Flay and the Neelys o_0
It’s the same thing with self proclaimed “nice guys.” Much like the “cook” wants credit for boiling water, the nice guy wants extra credit for trivial things that any GOOD person would do. Opening doors, treating folks right, not cussing women out, paying bills on time, etc. Most self proclaimed nice guys think that because they are fitting the mold and playing the part that they are due something extra, and instead of developing any other interesting characteristics for themselves, they rely solely on the thier “nice-ness” to advance them to whatever imaginary level of dating success they feel they are entitled to.
Now, when a man is described as nice by other people, THEN what I find is tha he’s not only nice, but a good catch in other ways as well.
Yeah, that’s he same thing all the other ladies on the post are saying. But just because you all know of that one black guy that you actually dated doesn’t discount all the no account no game having nice guys working at the pharmacy that you guys didn’t date. I’m just going by the comments and everyone uses that one guy as proof that they don’t exist at all.
And nice guys probably complain so much because women complain about always dating unemployed dogs and talk about how they want to date a guy that sounds surprisingly like him. Yet, he is overlooked.
And to be fair, the parallel to the nice guy is the good girl with all the right credentials who doesn’t who can’t find a man becuase of “THE SHORTAGE”.
But I have no dog in this fight as I never play the nice guy angle, just observations.
I see your point. I agree. And I do acknowledge the existence of the nice guy though…the genuine ones and the self-proclaimed ones as well.
“It’s the same thing with self proclaimed “nice guys.” Much like the “cook” wants credit for boiling water, the nice guy wants extra credit for trivial things that any GOOD person would do. Opening doors, treating folks right, not cussing women out, paying bills on time, etc. Most self proclaimed nice guys think that because they are fitting the mold and playing the part that they are due something extra, and instead of developing any other interesting characteristics for themselves, they rely solely on the thier “nice-ness” to advance them to whatever imaginary level of dating success they feel they are entitled to.”
It’s hard to give the self-proclaimed nice guy a shot because they are so socially inexperienced… the reality is that it makes them in many cases incompatible.
I used to give these “nice guys” a shot when I was in college because I was raised with a you never know who can be the one philosophy and it was never a good experience because so many of them have entitlement issues.
And no matter how polite or gracefully you tried to back out of it they would try to guilt you or coerce you into seeing them again or giving them a kiss or more.
And many of these “nice guys” make you fear for your personal safety because the don’t understand social mores… and tend to get angry or over aggressive when they can’t get their way.
The one who shut it down for me was a guy who told me that he could have raped me if he wanted to but he was a nice guy and didn’t do stuff like that.
And I have heard various forms of ignorant, offensive and potentially dangerous stuff check listed by these nice guys that they would never do… then why the heck are you bringing it up.
This discourages you from giving a dude that you know you aren’t going to have a good time with a shot… and running if he tells you that he is a “nice guy”
The reality is you can’t date every guy that asks you out… you have to have some criteria for thinning the heard. ~JS
Don’t get me wrong I know REAL NICE guys and I date them… I have never been attracted to the “playboy”, the “bad boy” or the “arrogant” dude… I like my men nice… So nice black men do abound… except they don’t go around calling themselves “nice guys”… They just are.
really?
black women deny nice dudes exist??
where?
Um, most of the comments in this thread? All along the lines of “They ain’t really nice, just a-holes pretending”.
“Um, most of the comments in this thread? All along the lines of “They ain’t really nice, just a-holes pretending””
This only applies to self-professed nice guys… not real nice guys.
As it was stated upthread it is one thing to hear it from other people that he is a nice guy and it is another thing for the person themselves to tell you.
The guys we are talking about hold the opinion that they are nice when they are a-holes pretending
We believe that there are nice black men… a lot of us are in relationships with them. ~JS.
#whatshesaid
do you think black men have it easier in regards to dating?
Because they aren’t black men.
Because some men make it “LOOK” easy
because everyone likes to be little the efforts that others put in , in order to make themselves feel better
Because just like women of any color, men of any color can and will be fetishized and it is a potential denigration to the women that a particular man- under the voyeurs observation- may “get” with.
Because it is always easier to say the grass is greener on the other side rather than accept that everything comes with difficulty that those unfamiliar have no concept of how to deal with.
Shall I go on? no, the point is beaten to death twice by now, I just desired to be Henry David, YES, “Thoreau”….bwahahahahaha
@beautifuldaidreamer–Because I usually go in on said “nice guy” commenter I’m gonna have to completely agree. If it’s who I think it is, it’s not that he’s nice…it’s that he’s a douche masquerading as a nice guy. Maybe his life love lessons have been a bit dicey. I might give him that, but the way in which said individual comes off in this blog….this blog RIGHT HERE…I’m willing to bet my next school refund check that he is a LOT of the problem.
Sad thing is, when you tell him, he has a defense for it all. So, I say keep complaining, stay single and bitter and let the other men with better dispositions get at the women willing to have them.
Such is life!
“Because I usually go in on said “nice guy” commenter I’m gonna have to completely agree. If it’s who I think it is, it’s not that he’s nice…it’s that he’s a douche masquerading as a nice guy.”
and its hilarious!!!
LOL.
i aint eeeeeven gonna say a word.
*but sho is glad others had said what i dont need to say…
I’m clueless…who is Champ talking about? The Realest Leo?
#whenkeepingitrealgoeswrong lololol
Dayum, everyone else is trying to be all clandestine and sly, but we don’t play subtlety here @ VSB. #dead
I ain’t mad, I was expecting the call out sooner. :p
“#whenkeepingitrealgoeswrong” <- indeed
Pfft subtlety is overrated. I can guarantee if this conversation was taking place in real life/time I would be the one to be like, “WHAT YOU MEAN THEREALESTLEO?!?!” while everyone else shushes me, because he has entered the room behind me. -_-
Just keep being you, because I have found an e-sister, lol. Just consider it part of your charm, because I consider it a part of mine, lol.
Awww, tanks babeeee *Jamaican accent*…yeah it’s a part of my charm. Real life peeps love my honesty.
I figure I haven’t changed yet so this must be me and I’m more comfortable this way. lol
Ha!! Good goal. But on the real…dude sounds like he is a little bitter. Just a little. lol
LMAOOO @ when keeping ir real goes wrong!
LMAO really doe the only people who wouldn’t know who sent that question in are people who aren’t here everyday. And if I’m not mistaken dude has two posts pertaining to his situation and yet he still feels misunderstood and alone. No one’s gonna keep giving advice if its not gonna be taken and who has time to be throwing grown arse men pity parties?!? Certainly not me (in my E. Badu sanging voice)
” Certainly not me (in my E. Badu sanging voice)”
This^ had me dreaming of Ms. Badu, herself, singing that to a certain lion from a dimly lit stage.
Yes, thanks for alla dat!
DEAD… and bout to be late for a meeting messing with y’all!
LOL!! His name should just be part of the keyword link at the end.
I dont usually comment…
But that was simply uncalled for and just plain mean.
“Because the idea of a black man having actual dating struggles is the complete antithesis of the prevailing idea that we’re all carefree mandingos with limitless romantic options, I understand why it’s difficult for some — and by “some” I mean “some black women” — to have any type of empathy or sympathy for a black “nice guy” finishing last, especially since their own dating acrimony has been widely publicized, scrutinized, and politicized.”
@Champ. I completely agree. I think a lot men struggle being game challenged (I’ll be the first to admit. I am one of them. lol). And some bw won’t accept the fact that some men are game challenged. I think publicizing bm dating struggles isn’t as sexy as bw dating struggles.
“I think a lot men struggle being game challenged…”
Personally, when a person is use to hearing/experiencing “game,” spontaneity is refreshing.
Overall most women want a confident man- period (no innuendo implied).
Agreed. Be pleasant, break out a smile, and maybe, possibly, even…laugh.
[s/n: Many guys have the same smiling problem y'all complain about from women.]
And some bw won’t accept the fact that some men are game challenged.
while this might be true, i think the bigger issue is that many black women are looking for a guy who is assertive and direct. having “game” to most of us simply means a man knows how to approach a woman and get her interested in dating him. guys, this doesnt need to include lies, pick up lines (which should only be used for entertainment purposes only) or excessive/rehearsed flattery–it should be genuine convo that lets a woman know in no uncertain terms you’re attracted to her and are interested in getting to know her better.
theres nothing worse than a man who pussyfoots and bullsh*ts around and doesnt make a move. who has time for mind-reading and guesstimating? many of us want to be pursued and KNOW we’re being pursued. if we feel like we have to make the first move or that you are too passive, we arent likely going to be interested.
all that to say, its not some of yall black men are “game challenged” thats the problem. the problem is you lack confidence and directness.
So good game (aka game that you don’t realize is being run). Gotcha. Thing is, only a small percentage of the population will ever posses those skills, and since it is at such a premium in the black community, those guys will always have an abundance of options. Just as the bible says that it is nearly impossible for a wealthy man to get into heaven, the same can be said of the chances of a man with a wealth of options being a nice guy.
Thus, nice guys do finish last because if they finished first, they wouldn’t be nice by definition.
I Agree. This World brings the tough out of you. It is a heck of a lot easier to be rude and tough than to be sensitive emotionally while tough verbally. And creating that balance is something I’ve seen many struggle with and disregard.
If it wasn’t for meeting my father, I’d still be struggling with it myself.
I’m not struggling, I’m working towards it like a college course.
The difference is in direction….but let me not make this about fatherless boys.
It is about the balance of being progressive. But most get a pass as long as the only hurt the right people.
My question has always been: Why does this seem to be only the case with MEN? I have many female friends who have a lot going for them–car, money, good job, nice place, at least pleasant-looking–but they’re not the vile creatures that men often turn into when they have these things. And, as many songs as there are glorifying a woman that “got her own”, BEWARE of the dude who likes that song, because it means that that woman with everything going for her won’t get taken out or treated right because, after all, she “got her own”. Well, pardon me, but I feel just as entitled as the arrogant, male version of myself for relationship success, but I don’t get it because of “male rationalization X, Y or Z”.
You’re setting up a straw man here. Most “nice dudes” complain because they have all the things you just mentioned but still don’t get play. And as your girls up thread say “feel entitled”
With women who have those things, they turn into the same bitter incarnation as their male counterparts. Their script is closer to “Why is he dating that lesser chick and ignoring the beautiful chick with the PHD?”
The difference? We know that females care about that stuff. Always have. We have no idea why you think we want that in a woman. We would be more impressed with you professional degree if it were stuffed in your bra instead hanging on your wall.
I didn’t say anything about being “nice” or “bitter”. There are “nice” chicks (legit nice, not saying they’re nice but are actually throwing a pity party for themselves) that go alone, and there are “bitter” chicks that are driving men away with their attitudes the same way the “nice” men are.
I did not get my job or education for men. I did it so I could be self-sufficient. I’m asking why a man’s self-sufficiency turns him into an arrogant jerk, and a woman’s makes her a pariah. So you don’t care about a woman’s resume unless it’s in her bra? Really? I think that’s simplistic.
I guess the disconnect is that I don’t see a woman’s degrees making her a pariah. And I don’t really see anyone else making that argument either. The only women that fit that criteria in my eyes were the ones I described. And I explained why those guys become jerks.
And yeah, I was being flip about the degrees just to make a point. I admire an educated woman. But men are simplistic. Earning potential doesn’t do it for us.
*folds degrees and places in cleavage*
There goes a wise Woman…
O.
Here is a primary difference that goes back to the Bible of all books(I’m paraphrasing).
Men operate based on respect and everything he does in an outlash is related to his perception that respect is lacking.
Women operate based on love and everything she does in an outlash is related to her not feeling loved.
There is a book called “Love and Respect”, it would help if I wasn’t the only one reading it. Ha. Not my book, btw.
Whereas a man looks to find a woman to RESPECT him for what HE DOES FOR HER. A woman simply wants a man who will ALWAYS SHOW HER THE LOVE THAT SHE FEELS SHE DESERVES.
This fundamental difference does a lot to separate mindsets in this day and age.
It is easier to act out in a rage of petty stuff when feeling disrespected because we feel everything is supposed to respect us when it doesn’t-thats why most men see themselves as a king(I.e. King of their own castles-this is a hint). Where as women tend to already not expect everyone to love them as long as they are getting love from somewhere. It takes so much more to sour a woman. Not saying that they are better but they need less overall work than men do.
But the way society views the differences between men and women is so ridiculous that most of you A) won’t believe me and B) won’t do any research to see if I’m just some loud mouthed lunatic spouting ish I may or may not know about.
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
@Obsidian
Ha! Thanks! : )
“So good game (aka game that you don’t realize is being run). Gotcha”
No… its more of the intent of a guy using “game” if he is just trying to score no woman wants to be a part of that.
As in I just want to get the panties from any and every chick I see.
If he is using “game” because he wants a relationship where I come from we call that courting.
As in I really like this girl who is beautiful, funny and smart how do I get her to notice me so I can see if there is a possibility there.
Most women don’t mind if you want to be a better man for love especially for them in particular
What we don’t like is being hustled ~JS
I hear you, but we were talking about what attracted women, not what women wanted from a man. Since we can never truly no another person’s intentions then it’s the delivery and presentation that attracts women.
If it truly were intentions that attracted women then nice guys by definition would stay winning.
“I hear you, but we were talking about what attracted women, not what women wanted from a man.”
This is an excellent point… there is a huge difference in who you are initially attracted to and how the relationship proceeds. ~JS
Jhane,
There is nothing wrong with a Man using Game to procure purely sexual relationships with Women, and why this notion hangs out there that there is something inherently wrong with such a Man, is ridiculous. We say NOTHING if a Woman wants the same thing, indeed she’s touted as the living embodiment of the liberated Woman ideal. But for a guy to want the same thing and to make use of field-tested methods to do it? Oh, he’s a pariah. What a crock.
Look, the dating market is fierce and not for the faint of heart. Many of the same Women who talk all that jazz you just did above will turn right around and either do, or signoff, on some really foul stuff done to guys. We’ve all seen this happen, many of your ladies have done, right here in this forum. So let’s cut the crap. If a Woman is that determined not to get played, she’d best lock herself up in her crib and call it a day with her cats.
O.
“There is nothing wrong with a Man using Game to procure purely sexual relationships with Women, and why this notion hangs out there that there is something inherently wrong with such a Man, is ridiculous. We say NOTHING if a Woman wants the same thing, indeed she’s touted as the living embodiment of the liberated Woman ideal. But for a guy to want the same thing and to make use of field-tested methods to do it? Oh, he’s a pariah. What a crock.”
You mad nephew… Obsidian puttin’ the flavor in yo ear… LMAO.
Look I am a firm believer in grown folks making up their own minds about what they want to do with grown folks.
But dudes who have to resort to manipulation to get a someone to agree to something they don’t want then they are a bottom feeder… PERIOD.
There are plenty of chicks who are down for whatever… I just want those dudes to stay out of the monogamy pool.
And I guess you do have a sense of humor… cause this is the funniest sh*t I’ve read from you ~JS
Oh BS, Woman, you know not what you are talking about. Women have manipulated Men from time immemorial, so don’t even fix your mouth to attempt to lecture me or any other Man about “manipulation”. Like I said, when you or any other Woman stops manipulating Men in the myriad ways you do, THEN you can come back here on your high horse. Until then, maybe you can kick it with Mr. Ed…
And actually read the books we talked about earlier, you have a nasty habit of not doing your homework…
O.
“Like I said, when you or any other Woman stops manipulating Men in the myriad ways you do, THEN you can come back here on your high horse.”
Too be clear I don’t like manipulative women either… bottom feeders can be women as well.
My disdain is gender neutral for those who can’t get what they want without resorting to manipulative tactics.
I think if you can’t get what you really want by being up front then you are asking the wrong person or for the wrong thing. ~JS
Jhane,
When you go to interview for a job, do you wear what you feel like it? When on the job, do you tell your boos you think he/she is an A1 a**hole and jerk who couldn’t figure out their bunghole from a hole in the ground? How many people do you know do these things? And if they don’t are they too “manipulative”?
Like I said, actually read the books we talked about earlier. You truly do not know what you are talking about.
O.
“When you go to interview for a job, do you wear what you feel like it? When on the job, do you tell your boos you think he/she is an A1 a**hole and jerk who couldn’t figure out their bunghole from a hole in the ground? How many people do you know do these things? And if they don’t are they too “manipulative”?”
When I go on an interview I wear what is appropriate for the culture of the business or client.
When I find someone “difficult” in a professional situation I use tact.
And not sharing my every thought or acting on every impulse is part of the discipline of self-control with a touch of maturity thrown in to heighten the experience.
These behaviors are not considered the devious management of a situation for one’s own advantage… the actual definition of manipulation.
Displaying the behavior and an appearance consistent and appropriate for your environment is not only desirable but expected…
For adults at least.
And there is no inherant dishonesty involved. ~JS
Jhane,
Not only do you sopund incredibly naive, but in this particular instance, ignorant to boot. You know not what you’re talking about wrt Game, and it would really be nice if you and others who take issue with things you don’t like actually go and read the damn books I bring up here before you go to shooting off outta the side of your neck.
SMH…
O.
I am astounded and appalled by the arrogance and disrespect in this and many of your comments.
Your “game” definitely needs some work, imo.
UD,
And now here you come with overwrought indignation, not because what I said was true or not, but rather, because you don’t like it and the recipient of my slapdown happened to be a female. “I’m shockd – shocked!”.
Cry me a river…
O.
I didn’t argue any points with you because:
Jhane Sez did just fine in that regard, which is why you had to be dismissive in your responses to her. Your need to be right blinds you to other valid points of view.
That’s what you want. See above.
There was nothing “overwrought” about my indignation. I shouldn’t have even bothered with you because all I got was more of the same condescension and arrogance that you give everyone, men and women alike.
Instead of crying you a river, how about I build you a bridge to get over yourself.
Fin.
Ah, Urban Dismay is back for more, I see. I’m an accomodating Man. Shall we?
UD: I didn’t argue any points with you because:
O: You don’t know what you’re talking about.
UD: Jhane Sez did just fine in that regard, which is why you had to be dismissive in your responses to her. Your need to be right blinds you to other valid points of view.
O: And her need to spew stuff outta the side of her neck leads her to sounding ridiculous. Look here UD, you sound like a somewhat reasonable person, so I’m going to do you the favor of being blunt. I have no problem with anyone disagreeing with me, so long as they have actually demonstrated having studied the materials under discussion. I have consistently found that people cling to their ideology rather than the actual facts of a matter. When it comes to the topic of Game, I have studied the matter, and she clearly has not. Thus, I am fully in my right to casually dismiss with all manner of jeers and rebuke until or unless she goes back and does said homework. Mind you, she is still free to disagree, but at least I can respect said disagreement because it is coming from an informed position. Such as it is, it is not. Hence my dismissal.
UD: That’s what you want. See above.
O: Indeed; see above.
UD: There was nothing “overwrought” about my indignation.
O: Yes there was. Outrage is overrated.
UD: I shouldn’t have even bothered with you because all I got was more of the same condescension and arrogance that you give everyone, men and women alike.
O: When you bring a boy scout’s pinknife to a gunfight, that tends to happen…
UD: Instead of crying you a river, how about I build you a bridge to get over yourself.
O: Whatever floats your proverbial boat…
UD: Fin.
O: Hallelujah! I’ll drink to that…
O.
“all that to say, its not some of yall black men are “game challenged” thats the problem. the problem is you lack confidence and directness.”
I agree with you. I think in the past, I had this fear of rejection/failure which in turn killed the confidence part. Now I just don’t give a f*ck (about fear of rejection and confidence).
I think I have always been passive when it comes to starting relationships. But once I get comfortable with someone I’m pretty cool. As in the words of Ron Burgundy: “I don’t know how to put this but I’m kind of a big deal….I’m very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany.” lmao.
@Gem
The problem is you lack confidence and directness.
Shhhheeeet. Not me.
Gem,
I have a question:
Have you ever read any “pickup material”, such as books like The Game? have you ever attended a “bootcamp”? Ever been to a “lair”? The reason I’m asking is because I’d like to know the basis on which you make the assertions about the Game above the way you do.
Please explain?
Thanks.
O.
“To continue the analogy, contested three pointer = college degree, wide open three pointer = master’s/professional degree, foul shot = PhD, and lay-up = being born into the Bush family.”
Are we talking a college or NBA three here?
Either way, grad school is Gary f*cking Payton.
college three.
and, um, not sure if i get the reference to the glove there
I think the Glove reference is to say that Grad School is “difficult to get beyond”. Because being from the greater Seattle area, if there is only one thing you knew about basketball, it was that Gary Payton is the defensive master of this domain. It doesn’t matter if logically he isn’t the best but he definitely is hyped up around here. People will talk of his basketball prowess for decades, at least around here.
I was lost too. GP=wide open 3?
Gary Payton is the person contesting my three. I was gonna go with Olajuwon or something, but it usually doesn’t make sense for a big man to be guarding the perimeter.
This all made perfect sense at midnight when I typed it.
Thats what I explained. I got what you were saying man. Maybe I over explained it. Scratchin’mh …oh well.
Uh you didn’t seem very confident in definitively answering the tool belt qstn- shortcoming?
…couldn’t resist
***he, hee, heeeee****
resist deez
“I want to know if it’s possible sleep your way into a man’s heart?”
Yes, it’s possible, but only if he already likes you.
If he really liked her, wouldn’t he want her to be his actual girlfriend or be willing to spend more quality time (talking more, going places, etc) instead of just the weekly booty call?
@ AfroRina…It depends on what stage of life he’s in. He may really like her, but he may really want to continue dating and sport f-cking. If he’s of that mindest, he’ll do a lot of “relationship type” stuff with the girl he likes and can see himself with, but he’ll still knock off the club chick at random.
It’s not until he’s ready to make that move that he will. If she’s there, she’s the one he’ll make the move with. If not, then he’ll continue until he finds one he wants that one-on-one with and make it happen.
Mo
you truly are a VSS
*e-daps Yoles*
‘preciate it!
Everything you said was true.
I continue to say that men don’t necessarily end up with the woman they love the most, they end up with the woman they’re with and like the most when they are ready to make a commitment.
This is seriously bad advice but, ladies, if there is a guy you have a connection with (and make sure it’s a real, not imagined connection) who isn’t yet ready to settle down, stay in his life as a ‘friend’ (continue to do you but don’t share your exploits as they could bite you in the butt later) and cook him a meal every blue moon. LOL. I’ve seen firsthand how doing this could benefit you. Of course, if Mr. Commitment comes around in the meantime, dump Mr. Commitment Phobe.
That sounds like a great situation for HIM but messed up for her..She is supposed to wait around while he gets ‘ready to make that move’?
Naw I don’t think she should wait around. If he’s not ready then live your life and look for a guy that is.
It is kinda him getting the best of both worlds, but that’s for the woman in his life to decide. If she wants to stay around and deal with that, while keeping her options open, then she must do so with the knowledge that it’s not fair….but life stopped being fair in kindergarten.
So, it’s really a choice of what she wants to do. If she chooses to be the friend/f-k buddy in hopes that he’ll come around, then that’s HER CHOICE (choice being the operative word becauae these types of situations are not thrust upon women in the manner they would claim).
But, yeah like someone else said, if another man, equally engaging comes along and wants to lock it down, then her best move is to make that move with him and give up the waiting game.
*said like “Eat the Cake Anna Mae”* Write the book, Mo! Please and Thank you
LMAO…girl I think that’s gonna be the title of the 36 chapter book! Thanks
Cab setting them up for the okie-doke
Dang!!! did you really have to provide a link to the man, maybe he wanted some anonymity. Either way I was thoroughly tickled by that. I like your basketball analogy and I may have to come up with one on a subject I know something about with the kids I mentor. I just cant compete with the “Pretty Boy Swags” of the world. I dont know if I would put a master’s on the same level with a professional degree, but I would def. put a PhD as a foul shot.
I find the confidence idea to be pretty solid tactic on predicting size but it has to be the quiet, unobtrusive sort of confidence and you have to learn to tell the difference.
Good luck with the 1st plight.
“Dang!!! did you really have to provide a link to the man, maybe he wanted some anonymity.”
i doubt that. he intentionally gave himself away in the question
If his mama call him TheRealestLeo, Imma call him TheRealestLeo.
LMAO……I am so glad I wasn’t sipping my moscato when I read that cuz i literally did a laugh would have left the computer soaked.
Still laughing out loud as I type.
He aint never gonna come back to this blog
he’ll be back
lol!
I feel bad for laughing….
*time of death: when i read this comment.
Bwahah! Scoot over so I can die too. *muerte*
Is there room down there, because I need to join yall.
I read that this morning and I’m still chuckling.
@WeGottaDoBetter
No disrespect to anyone and I hate to spoil the party, but was it necessary to call him out? I too have been thrown off by TRL’s defeatist attitude, but really?? o_O
cnotes!!
i understand what you are saying.
i do..
i do…
i feel the same way. that was kinda ballsy to put him on blast, and with this being a blog that’s kind of a big deal, you kinda put a bigger spotlight on him than he ever put on himself, Champ.
not trying to run your blog, but now that i see how it is, i’ll do my darnedest to keep my whining and whimpering to myself.
Guess I gotta do better too. (work in progress)
Pete,
I don’t think it’s really a situation where you can’t express yourself. I get that folks can have it badly. However, when in the company (even in the e-company) of nitelligent folks of like minds and skin tone who have been there, done that and have a lot of legitimate solutions, advice, etc and it’s turned on a deaf ear almost in a way to continue down-trodden journey into love and life as the “nice guy”…it can be a bit off-putting, to say the least.
All that to say, I don’t think folks are looking to get mean-spirited in here. I just think it’s a bit tongue-n-cheek the way they rib him because of his attitude.
Just my $0.02 though…
dammit, how am I gonna spell “intelligent” wrong!
***goes to sit in the spelling corner***
I thought you meant intelligent+ninja= nitelligent. lol.
F-ck buddies can become serious if they BOTH want it. Usually though, the woman develops feelings and the man is happy with the arrangment.
Confession time. When I met my now bf, I just (and by JUST, I mean 1 week prior) had gotten out of an 18 month relationship. I wasn’t looking for another dude. In fact, if I wanted to be in a relationship I would have went back to my then ex. Anyway, I just wanted to have fun. Current bf is well built, sexy as hell, and great to talk to…in and out of bed. So, I had fun with it. Didn’t want anything more and let him know this. Not on some “game” type stuff but on some that’s I how I felt type stuff.
A few months later, he wanted to get more serious. I didn’t. We continued to hang out, date, have sex and get to know each other. I changed my mind, he was still willing and that was that. The point? A person in that situation can only express what they want and if the other person is willing, then cool. If not, you either cut if off completely, continue on and keep your options open or just wait and invest in them. Whatever a perosn decides, they have to know the risks involved and assuem those risks as they see fit.
The one thing women in situations like that seem to forget is that if a man says “I don’t want that,” no amount of chandalier swinging, honey dripping, toe-curling sex is gonna make him say differently. It’s on his time….and that may be never. Women who think they can “change” his mind with home-cooking, sex, and all things relationships are setting themselves up for failture. Assuming that the dude is honest after the expression of feelings occurs…it’s really the woman’s fault for allowing herself to get caught up.
@Mo..
this is why i heart ya..you rock!!
the same ppl who say that a FwB thing cant and shouldn’t turn into anything else, are probably the same folk that say LDR’s never work. are they both rare? sure. but there are always exception to every rule. the key is knowing what YOU are willing to put up with.
be honest and real with yourself and follow your instincts.
great comment, Mo. i have been in a few relationships that started out as F-buddy situations too (3 out of my total 5, including my current, so a majority. not sure how i feel about that lol)…and these were great relationships by the way. but, ladies, everything Mo just said (also see V.E.G.’s comment above) is the truth, so don’t mess up by doing it wrong.
i think it takes a different type of girl to have this situation work out for them, idk. i’m very much a hippie in a little black woman’s body, so i may have some personal qualities that make me prime for the F-buddy-turned-relationship scenario. if you know you’re not the type who can handle it, please don’t kid yourself and try. you will get hurt.
“i’m very much a hippie in a little black woman’s body”
You pretty much described me, too. Except in addition to being of the earth and one with the people, I wear dresses and heels everyday and drink beer and watch football.
LOL. But I, too, think I have personal qualities that let men go from seeing me as ‘f-buddy’ to ‘serious girlfriend’. I don’t know what those qualities are but, like you, I have had 4 f-buddy’s grow into significant relationships.
i feel very close to you right now V.E.G.
i knew i liked you for a reason
i know, “get a room”
VEG,
One of the reasons why you’re able to “convert” a Jumpoff into a relationship was contained in your comment above; I quote it back to you here:
“I wear dresses and heels everyday”
Do you realize that this puts you in the rarified 5% of Sistas today? That alone, is worth the price of admission.
O.
“The one thing women in situations like that seem to forget is that if a man says “I don’t want that,” no amount of chandalier swinging, honey dripping, toe-curling sex is gonna make him say differently. It’s on his time….and that may be never. Women who think they can “change” his mind with home-cooking, sex, and all things relationships are setting themselves up for failture. Assuming that the dude is honest after the expression of feelings occurs…it’s really the woman’s fault for allowing herself to get caught up.
***nodding head***
Exactly. FB stuff can work, it’s very possible. The problem is unrealstic expectations and ignoring the signs. Willing something to happen despite him saying it won’t. That’s how women get hurt. You can trick him with the poon, but expect a divorce. Also, you need to be real and communicate. You never know how things may end up. There’s no black/white rules to love, just probability. S.ex alone usually doesn’t last.
Actually SFG, LTRs that come about as a result of hooking up or FWB scenarios only happen about, I think, less than 20% of the time? Hardly a sound strategy if the goal is getting into a relationship. For more on this, checkout the blog Hooking Up Smart. Tell em Obsidian sent ya.
O.
All so very true. The only women who can’t make the transition are the ones who are doing it for the wrong reasons. It really is hard to wife a woman who tried to use sex to get a relationship. They seem really cheap and it makes them insecure and volatile.
But a chick that knows what she wants and does it for her own reasons… the guy will want you more.
Do ANY guys go for a relationship over being an F-buddy? I’m not into the F-buddy thing. I suppose you could say I’m not cut out for it, but I really just find it borderline disrespectful and hurtful. Why should we be having sex if we haven’t even figured out if we like each other? And if we figure out we don’t like each other AFTER we have sex, isn’t that awful? And then what about if one person takes the time and figures it out, while the other figures out they don’t like them, isn’t THAT awful? I’m taking a break from the dating (casual or not), but, in the hopes of avoiding bitterness, I’m curious if there are any guys who do it the old-fashioned way (aka meeting a girl, taking her out, getting to know her, THEN having sex).
Well, I guess having ovaries makes it hard to understand sex as an end unto itself and not as a mean to whatever emotional connection that should exist independent of it.
I didn’t say sex was a means. Exactly the opposite, I said DATING should be the means to reach sex, and not sex as a means to trap/catch a dude, or decide if you like one another.
Dating as a means to sex is even worse. Sex shouldn’t be a culmination. Dating should be a means to the emotional connection I spoke of. Using it as a means to sex is in effect making sex a proxy for that connection. Which is either as bad or worse than using it as a means to that emotional connection. Either way, you still aren’t viewing sex as an end unto itself.
Oh geez. Now we’re splitting hairs.
When I said sex, I thought it was clear that I was talking about emotionally connected sex (not booty-call sex), the physical intimacy that, when added to emotional intimacy gained by getting to know each other through dating, makes FULL intimacy. But dang, if you’re going to act like you didn’t get what I meant, you’re going to take the fun out of the debate.
Sigh, I def want you to enjoy this too, sorry if I was being selfish, I wasn’t trying to be, just got wrapped up in the moment. I get what you’re saying, I just don’t think you get me. Sex can be augmented by emotional intimacy, but there is no hierarchy of sex with intimate sex being the ultimate. Any kind of sex is going to be limited by your inhibitions and being in a relationship is one way to lower them.
The discomfort you feel when you’re not in one probably has more to do with your (read society’s) own issues about having sex outside of a relationship and not the fact that there is a lack of intimacy.
When I spoke abstractly of sex being an end unto itself, I was speaking of being able to enjoy it without the burden of inhibitions or prerequisites. Sex free of the burden of being a marker in a relationship. Uninhibited sex with someone new that you are highly attracted to can rival and sometimes surpass intimate relationship sex.
Seriously, having sex for the pure pleasure of the act is not the same as masturbation.
I’ve had mind-blowing sex outside of a relationship. During this period of self-discovery where I tried casual sex (sex without any emotional intimacy), it was quite awesome. I almost started crying once, which is extremely embarrassing and never happened the one time I was with a dude I loved.
BUT, I feel that even that experience would have been heightened if we’d had a commitment and emotional intimacy to go with the mind-blowing sex. Because once you finish that mind-blowing sex with no emotional connection, and the person starts putting on their clothes to head back up to the Bronx, you start feeling a little bit like a wh0re (at least I do), and like you’re selling yourself short. Sure, you can ignore those feelings, but why not just try to find a situation that doesn’t cause those. Because no matter how awesome the sex is, that wakeup call at the end can leave a really bad taste in your mouth.
BELIEVE ME, I had some good casual sex. I STILL think about a couple of the dudes. Mmmmm. But when you push for more and they say, “All I really liked about you was between your legs”, it’s not a good feeling. At least for ME. I can’t speak for everyone.
I can respect that. To thine own self be true. All I was saying is that it’s hard(er) for girls to enjoy sex just for the sake of sex. You felt used instead of it being a mutually beneficial act.
KKC, I hate to say this, but by now, you probably know that I’m not a Man to mince words, so I’m just gonna go aon ahead and put it out there:
1. You sound like you’re in NYC, and if that’s true, you must know that you are making your residence in a place that is the Ho Capital of the United States, par excellence. The city stinks like a whorehouse at low tide, and if a guy can’t score there, he can’t score anywhere. The place is overflowing with chicks, especially on the Black/Latina side. If a guy is even reasonably good looking and have even Moderate Game he can write his own ticket, from Yonkers to Staten Island, and everywhere in between – in fact, a guy should be able to luck on some Woman by accident, the odds are so good and the ladies both so hard up and horny. Bar none NYC is one of thee worst cities/places for single ladies tha are in the relationship market to be, which leads me to the next point…
2. KKC, I think you’ve had one too many rides on the carousel…the cock carousel, to be frank. By listening to what you’ve self-reported today, I won’t say that it’s impossible for you to land an LTR, but your history does complicate things considerably. You sound like a decent gal and believe it or not I don’t like giving people bad news, but bang there it is.
For more on what I mean on all this, checkout the flick Blue Valentine…
O.
@ O.
I have a hard time believing you hate to say anything but I hate that you just said that.
UD,
You don’t hate it, you love my bluntforce brutal honesty – now dontcha?
O.
It just depends on what what you want. It sounds like you know what you want and no amount of “but it worked for me” should sway you.
To clarify, I didn’t enter into said arrangement expecting much. I really didn’t. I just wanted good sex with a fione ninja with good convo. Check, check and check.
We got on well outside of the bedroom and we knew that before we hit the bedroom and we decided to develop that aspect of our time together as the seasons progressed.
But you right…it ain’t for the faint of heart and those who trying to play the okie-doke games.
LOL, If dude is who I think he is…and who I think he is is prolly who everybody else thinks he is….then I take his rants (and the way he says them) more as defense mechanisms….than anything else. Could he be “game challenged” yep. Could he be a “nice guy” with good intentions? Yep. Could he be a clown? I dont know.
But I seem to remember dude said something about being stationed in South Korea due to the military. LMAO, Man listen, Ive been there…you do NOT wanna go to Korea if you are even the slightest bit game challenged….even the SLIGHTEST. The sistas over there will chew you up and spit you out. And this is from experience, lol. This isnt anything I’m making up, lol. One of the main reasons I got over is because I’ve been pretty good in my day with the ladies(lol)…and the second is because I played B-ball on our Post team….so in that regard, it carried a certain amount of prestige too….. But the ratios that people exaggerate over here in the states are REAL in Korea……EVERYWHERE in Korea. That whole 12 to 1 ratio? Real. I had 45 people in my unit…..4 were women..and two of them were black…you do the math, lol.
We used to have this thing (ask ANYBODY that you guys know whos been in the military whos been to Korea…or even overseas and they’ll tell you) thats called being a queen for a year. Id NEVER IN MY LIFE (lol) been played by an ugly chic until I went to Korea, lol. NEVER !!!! . But over there?!?!?!? ALL of them knew they were in demand and that dudes would fight, trick and do almost anything they could to have sex with them…..and almost every last one of them carried that new found boost in confidence with them. I knew a chic I used to call Biggie (her last name was Wallace, she was NOT a heart throb, was black as my beard, and she had a lazy eye, lol…but had a big ole a**, lol) that I had to resort to smashing on occasion…and even she had cats buying her clothes, offering to pay her trips home to the states, and all kinds of craziness. Here in the states that doesnt ride……more often than not. But over there? chics that are 2s, 3s and 4s become 7s, 8s and 9s immediately. ITs like youre in some sort of alternate reality or upside down universe or something, lol. So couple that with the various attitudes that youll already run into with various sistahs, and a little lack of game and what you have is a recipe for disaster, lol. Your avg will plummet like the dow jones average in the great depression, lol.
So in that regard, I feel dude. I KNOW where he’s coming from, lmao.
Thing is, he’s prolly defensive…(and maybe even resentful) of a few chics, because hes done what he thought was supposed to be the “right” thing and he doesnt get what he wants…..the results are prolly the exact opposite. So he feels some sort of way. Cant front on that. Then he gets clowned and knocked for not smashing up a few chics and coming off some sort of way…..then BAM…..songs about the Bitter man blues get written about you, lol.
Only thing I could tell dude is to GET MONEY….that overides alot of your relationship woes right there, lol. And work on talking to chics, wooing chics and doing what works for him with chics. Youre gonna get played, but then eventually you learn…..and you take the EPMD “Business never Personal” attitude with it.
OK, thats it
Oddly enough, if “he” would’ve had the option to change his duty station from Korea to Germany he probably would’ve had the exact opposite experience.
When I first came up for orders overseas and all the guys on post started patting me on the back and telling me how lucky I was, I was like 0_o. For what? The beer?
They said Germany is a Black man’s paradise. Needless to say…it was. :0P
And clowning whomever he is really won’t help with the problem. Instead it only adds fuel to the fire by coming off as the stereotypical angry Black chick he’s probably used to running up against.
@eddie_brock
i have some q’s about military:
why are you stationed in places that aren’t at war and stuff?
can you transfer out of a location, or do you pretty much go where and when they tell you?
really? Germany?
ps @ Jaymatic:
you realize that you’ve explained more about the culture and reasonings in ONE post, than if-it-is-who-we-all-think-it-is has in multiple posts. thanks for the education.
moral of the story: its not always what you say..it’s how you say it.
Jaymatic did break it down, LOL. I love he had to resort to smashing on “Biggie” on occasion. [He know he liked that girl.]
@WIP
LMAO. I know right?!?! He just HAD to.
I concur. I have my share of Korea stories. I managed somehow but it was no easy feat, and this is coming from a young officer who was used to having a very favorable ratio anywhere else.
LOL
She was “aight”..but I was more bent on bending her over than anything, lol
Why are you stationed in places that aren’t at war and stuff?
– Simplest answer, staging and security. We’ve held a presence in GE since WWII and I believe it’s much easier to rally and deploy a fighting force to other countries [i.e. Iraq, Afghanistan] if you’re already 1/2 there. Say for example there was an annual VSB BBQ at Champ’s house and he lived a whole town away from you, but I lived like two neighborhoods away from him. Rather than you driving all the way from your house, wouldn’t it be easier if you crashed at my spot and we drove there together? :0] [yeah I know that's a horrible analogy and I can give you a more in depth one if you want]
Can you transfer out of a location, or do you pretty much go where and when they tell you?
–When you first enlist, you’re asked to make out a “Wish List” of the posts you’d like to be stationed at, both CONUS and abroad. Of course this was pre-[insert war of choice]. Most troops now go straight from basic to a rotation in the desert depending on your MOS. Anyone who’s current active duty please correct me if I’m wrong.
Really? Germany?
–I felt the same way on the plane over and for the next few weeks. Until I got out of the barracks and met some of them. Very friendly people and at the time, very pro-American and pro-Black men. :0)
@Eddie…I’ll help out with the first one…
Simply put, we have a presence in other countries that reduces our need to travel great distances in order to put an ass whooping on an aggressor. If something pops off in the middle east, the units in Germany/Italy are close enough to get on the ground fast while backup comes from the states.
In Korea…they are at a “cease fire” and have been for over 50 years (called an Armistice agreement). Technically they are still at war. U.S. Forces are there to provide support for our allies (South Korea) and to deter aggression from North Korea.
Oh yeah…Germany is nice. It’s been almost 2 decades since I was last there but I enjoyed my stay their briefly.
@ CPT Callamity + @Eddie_Brock
thanks for being my US military wiki!!
i understand its mostly logistics and not trying to take over the world. LOL
As a young VSS I used to live in Germany and let’s just say that women do outnumber men by a large majority.
And the men ain’t so bad either
I could have told you most of this stuff as well; however, you never asked me these questions.
after reading this comment, I’m officially crossing Korea off the list of “best places for a black man to have a bachelor party”
It isn’t pretty. Luckily I was stationed in Seoul.
That’s where I was, lol. My Barracks was by the px, lol. What people don’t get, is that there are entire posts with NO women on them, lol. Then you got some where the few rhat are there, are nothing to write home about, lmao
So every dude that’s there is gonna take one for the team, lol
Jay,
Why not simply hit up some of those local cute Korean gals? No dis, but no way i Hades am I hitting the female version of Biggie…”baby-baby, uh”
NOT…
O.
LOL,
You must dont know what kimche smells like, lmao!!! The smell of that will kill your libido instantaneously. But really, I was never really attracted to Korean chics like that. Im kinda stuck on sistas, lol.
BUT
You got some “half breeds” over there that are absolutely gorgeous. I still say to this day, that the baddest chic Ive ever seen in my life, I saw in Korea and she was Half Black/Half Tai…jesus christ, lol.
Plus (not to sound racist or anything) but alot of those Korean chicks are flat as a pancake, lol. Hell, you like what you like. Thats another reason why I understand TRL (if thats who we the section of the post was about) because he was/is really in a bad situation, lol. Its like hes playing a game of spades and through the whole game, all he can do is “go board”…while his opponents are straight running 10 for 2′s, lol
He’ll be aight though once that tour ends, lol
Please do, lol
Also, I fully understand that one blog you guys wrote about women controlling the dating game…and how things would be. Because what you guys said is EXACTLY what goes on in Korea. The “top” 10 or so% get the limited chics that are out there…and the rest of the dudes either settle, or go without until the tour ends, lol
Korea also made me understand JUST how stuck up alot of women can be when they KNOW they are at a premium…….lmao
And now I understand.
“Thing is, he’s prolly defensive…(and maybe even resentful) of a few chics, because hes done what he thought was supposed to be the “right” thing and he doesnt get what he wants…..the results are prolly the exact opposite. So he feels some sort of way. Cant front on that. Then he gets clowned and knocked for not smashing up a few chics and coming off some sort of way…..then BAM…..songs about the Bitter man blues get written about you, lol.
Only thing I could tell dude is to GET MONEY”
if it’s who i think it is…and i’ve encountered him in different areas…yes, from my POV, what you wrote…is about right.
he’s going to have to care more about getting that paper. *shrug*
The worst thing Mr. Nice Guy can do is GET MONEY – Wallet Game is thee worst kind of Game a Man can have for a multitude of reasons. A true test of a Man’s Game is when he’s flat busted broke.
O.
I get it…
I mean, I already know this. I can get with the best of them in the “game” department…its just that, I feel like dude just needs to just go on a binge when he gets money (as allota dudes do, lol) and just start running through them…it sounds harsh, but. I really believe this. If for no other reason than to build his confidence from where it is now….then he can work from there. You know, If he finds a chic th he likes on the way, he can work on scooping her up.
nah, money is no different. Running game with your mouth piece for someone who isn’t that type, is just faking who he really is, just to get some. whereas with money…you HAVE it, so you aren’t faking it.
disregard females, acquire currency.
“I knew a chic I used to call Biggie (her last name was Wallace, she was NOT a heart throb, was black as my beard, and she had a lazy eye, lol…but had a big ole a**, lol) that I had to resort to smashing on occasion…”
Wow.
Love, Relationships & Pop Culture: The Obsidian “Three The Hard Way” Mailbag Remix
*DJ Obsidian toasting*
REWIND…
“Dear Obsidian: I’ve been casually dating this guy for a few months now, and I’m beginning to develop feelings for him. Ok. I’m lying. We haven’t been “dating” really, just having sex once a week or so. Yes. We are the dreaded f-buddies. Anyway, my feelings for him have grown, and I want to know if it’s possible sleep your way into a man’s heart?”
O: Short answer: NO. Congratulations – you have just entered the female equivalent of the Friend Zone. Once a Woman puts herself out there as a “DTF Broad”, forever will she remain in the minds and nether regions of Men. The worst kind of relationship strategy a Woman can adopt, especially in today’s times (more on this below), offering the booty upfront is the last thing to do if you want a guy for an LTR. Simply put, and I don’t know when Women are finally gonna get a clue, giving lots of sex to a guy stand alone, will NOT keep him around or committed to you. If you don’t put it out there that you’d like to be courted first and foremost, and instead put it out there that you’re more like Montana Fishburne, you can’t be surprised when you’re treated more like the latter than the former. You Women have a heck of a lot more sway and control when it comes to the tempo of the mating dance than they’re willing to admit (that’s because Women are far more likely not to want to accept responsibility for their role in the mating dace – but that’s another mailbag remix for another time), and with great power comes great responsibility. Use it wisely.
“Dear Obsidian: Why is it so difficult for people to understand the viewpoints of those that have experienced differently than them? After trying to drive my points home in the Nice Guys Finish Last blog, I have never felt so isolated and misunderstood in my life.”
O: Simply put, Nice Guys are for all intents, invisible to the vast majority of sexable Women out there; to them, you don’t even exist, your experiences and travails don’t rate. Women in general, and Sistas in particular, don’t care a heck of a lot about fairness or justice in this world, and the sooner Nice Guys learn that, the closer they will come to getting their parched woodies wet. In the dating and mating game, being “nice” has about as much effectiveness as you bringing a Swiss army knife to the OK Corrall. Lots of “cool” gadgets but totally useless for the task at hand – and that’s not even accounting for your getting your ass blown off by the Clanton & McClary Gang. I know this is gonna sound harsh my Man, but for real, nobody cares how hard you have it – Men are expected to suck it up and keep it moving, and those who don’t are treated worse than the proverbial redheaded lovechild. Women hearing this will experience a Mojave desert forming between their thighs, and the taint of loserdom keeps other Gamesmen away as well, so you’re screwing yourself on both ends. The ONLY solution for you, is to get some GAME – there are really good books out there you can buy for real cheap, as well as good websites and blogs where you can glean information about Human Sociosexual Dynamics for FREE. Your mission, Mr. Nice Guy, is to turn your once every Halley’s Coment recipient of a mercyf*ck into getting your balls drained on the regular, WITH THE WOMEN OF YOUR CHOICE. Nice Guys CAN finish first – but only if they have GAME. Get some, and get a life.
Suggested further reading to get you started:
The Game
The Art of Seduction
The Mystery Method
“Dear Obsidian: Is there a way to tell if a man is packing heavy equipment or not?”
O: *Obsidian puts envelope to Kangol* Other than being imbued with the Power of The Force? No.
“Dear Obsidian: I’m a newly single, attractive 36 yr old woman with 3 children. I recently separated from my husband after 18 yrs of marriage. I’m not looking for a relationship now, but I’m interested in dating. How do I go about meeting handsome, nice, respectable, and available men?”
O: “How do I go about meeting handsome, nice, respectable, and available men?” – Translation: “How do I get the creme de la creme of the Black Alpha Males to choose me?”. This is going to be difficult to hear, but since you asked…
The first thing you’re going to have to understand is that you are bringing some serious liabilities to the SMP – you’re four years out from crossing the rubicon (35 for White Women; Sistas get an additional 5 years, assuming she’s taken care of herself) and you have three – count em, three, kids in tow. Now, you have to ask yourself – WHY would such a Man as you described, before I ran it through the Universal Translator of Game, pick YOU? By definition, he has maximal options out on the open market. What are you bringing to the table to make it worth his while? Oh, and as we saw with FB Chick above, putting out early and even freakily, ain’t gonna get it. Don’t get me wrong, he might take you up on the offer, but after the party’s over and nut’s busted, he’s out the door – you do have three kids after all.
What so many Sistas in your or a similar boat simply have to learn is, that once you hit a certain age, and for Sistas I would say that certain age is on average about 30-35 and you’re in the market, you have to learn to reign in your gina tingles and SETTLE. That means, for gals such as yourself, the “handsome, nice, respectable, and available men” are, for all intents and purposes, off limits to you. That doesn’t mean that you now fall and a sword and go goodbye cruel world, but it does mean that you cannot command the same “going price” that you could 20 years ago, and that’s even if the years have been kind and the kids are little angels. Now if you’re DTF with no strings attached and you can live with that kind of arrangement, hey, go knock yourself out with my blessing. But if you’re considering something just a little bit more, than you need to choose guys who are a bit more your speed these days.
Where to meet such guys, you might ask? Its like the Matrix – they’re everywhere, sis. At church, at the library, in the supermarket, at the laundromat, etc et al. In fact, that’s probably where you want to do some of your biggest looking, in everyday mundane venues, for decent everybrothas out there that tend to get overlooked by the Hotties of the world. Online dating CAN work, but you have to do it a certain way to get the results you’re seeking. Although you didn’t speak on it, age plays a role here, too – younger guys than you are going to see you as either a quick pump and dump or recurring one, so your best bet is to skew a bit older than yourself, say about five years. You have to really put your best foot forward given your age and kids factors, so really playing up the things Men like most in Women, like them actually being feminine, comes up big here, and to be honest, is all but a Lost Art on the majority of the Sistahood (wearing dresses more than pants, smiling, being demure and submissive, having an approachable, pleasant personality, etc, et al). Assuming you’re among the rarified few who have this skill or are down to get up to speed, it shouldn’t take you long to get back in the saddle. By Spring you should be happily dating the nice churchgoing mailcarrier that you didn’t even knew existed before now – holla back with a good report!
Good night, and good luck.
Now adjourn your asses…
The Obsidian
Now playing at The Obsidian Files: Women Are The New Men Now
http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com/entry/60425/
Like everything you said especially use of the correct term “intents and purposes”. I would tell her to extend the age of the man she looking for to 10 years not 5.
I agree. Find a nice 45-50 year old man that’ll probably be invigorated by a younger woman with children.
Agreed; a Man who’s got more than 5 years difference on a Woman, is usually a good thing.
O.
This:
“I would say that certain age is on average about 30-35 and you’re in the market, you have to learn to reign in your gina tingles and SETTLE. That means, for gals such as yourself, the “handsome, nice, respectable, and available men” are, for all intents and purposes, off limits to you. That doesn’t mean that you now fall and a sword and go goodbye cruel world, but it does mean that you cannot command the same “going price” that you could 20 years ago, and that’s even if the years have been kind and the kids are little angels.”
…is harsh. True in a lot of respects.
*clapping and nodding like on family feud* good answers, good answers
as someone who is speeding toward said rubicon, i still approve
Hi Yoles,
Didn’t take you for being closer to the 30-35+ age range. Not that thee’s anything wrong with that; I can see you being able to “bend” the rules of the Matrix, given what I’ve seen of your writings etc here. Thanks for the kudos, much appreciated.
O.
Obsidian: You really do make some great points but I have noticed in a lot of your posts that you keep bringing up Black women and their attitudes . I dont know what kind of women you come into contact with that has led you to believe that all Black women are incapable of smiling, but I always smile (or try to anyway). The only time I ever get an attitude is when someone comes at me the wrong way or I may just be having a bad day and not even realize that there is a stank look on my face If all these Black women keep getting attitudes with you, then maybe the problem is you. With that being said, I know there are some people that are just angry for no reason, but all Black women are certainly not that way.
LOL, very nice. Although I’m not sure if “game” is really the answer for the nice guy. I enjoy men that are pleasant to be around; does it take a book to learn how to be an enjoyable person? Perhaps game is more about not giving off the wrong vibes.
If the dude is a cool guy with nice convo, but awkward and nerdy in his initial approach (yes I am describing myself), would you even consider getting to know him?
DHK,
A guy being awkward is a gina tingle killer for a Woman, much like an ugly chick is a boner killer for a Man. Women are herd animals, and as such have a much higher attuned social sense than do most Men. Those Men who are the exceptions almost always do better with Women than those who do not. The great thing about Game is that it is a skill that can be taught, if a Man is willing to learn. Therein lies the rub: most Men don’t want to take the time to learn.
O.
Well to keep it 100, if he was awkward and nerdy in his approach, I’d probably go out of my way to loosen him up a little, crack a joke or something. If we couldn’t build any rapport at all, no I wouldn’t consider it. [but I think I can be pretty disarming, so if he was really cool I could get it out of him].
In a word: YES.
O.
“LOL, very nice. Although I’m not sure if “game” is really the answer for the nice guy. I enjoy men that are pleasant to be around; does it take a book to learn how to be an enjoyable person? Perhaps game is more about not giving off the wrong vibes.”
No… the books Obsidian suggested I would actually recommend that women read as well.
Socio-sexual dynamics are interesting and helpful for men if they are socially awkward… but its kinda like cooking… unless you have some level of natural aptitude or training a cookbook will only give you recipes that you can’t execute.
I think its important for women to read because it puts you up on “game”… I have purchased all 3 for my daughter so that she can read them before she goes off to college.
Knowledge is power ~JS
Jhane,
LOL. I’ve heard many Women say very similar things too, and really, there really is no “defense” from Game, assuming the guy in question wields it well. A highly trained Jedi is truly a force to be reckoned with.
But I understand where the impetus comes from, and for real, I can’t say that I knock y’all. Hence the neverending tug-a-war between Male and Female…
O.
From “The Game”:
“AFC-noun (Average Frustrated Chump): a stereotypical nice guy who has no pickup skills or understanding of what attracts women; a man who tends to engage in supplicative and wimply patterns of behavior around women he has not yet slept with. Origin: Ross Jeffries.”
pp. 439
O.
“O: Simply put, Nice Guys are for all intents, invisible to the vast majority of sexable Women out there; to them, you don’t even exist, your experiences and travails don’t rate. Women in general, and Sistas in particular, don’t care a heck of a lot about fairness or justice in this world, and the sooner Nice Guys learn that, the closer they will come to getting their parched woodies wet. In the dating and mating game, being “nice” has about as much effectiveness as you bringing a Swiss army knife to the OK Corrall. Lots of “cool” gadgets but totally useless for the task at hand – and that’s not even accounting for your getting your ass blown off by the Clanton & McClary Gang. I know this is gonna sound harsh my Man, but for real, nobody cares how hard you have it – Men are expected to suck it up and keep it moving, and those who don’t are treated worse than the proverbial redheaded lovechild. Women hearing this will experience a Mojave desert forming between their thighs, and the taint of loserdom keeps other Gamesmen away as well, so you’re screwing yourself on both ends. The ONLY solution for you, is to get some GAME – there are really good books out there you can buy for real cheap, as well as good websites and blogs where you can glean information about Human Sociosexual Dynamics for FREE. Your mission, Mr. Nice Guy, is to turn your once every Halley’s Coment recipient of a mercyf*ck into getting your balls drained on the regular, WITH THE WOMEN OF YOUR CHOICE. Nice Guys CAN finish first – but only if they have GAME. Get some, and get a life.”
***nodding head at everything, especially this…***
“I know this is gonna sound harsh my Man, but for real, nobody cares how hard you have it – Men are expected to suck it up and keep it moving, and those who don’t are treated worse than the proverbial redheaded lovechild. Women hearing this will experience a Mojave desert forming between their thighs, and the taint of loserdom keeps other Gamesmen away as well, so you’re screwing yourself on both ends.”
Very well said. I prefer to call it reassessing what’s important to you than settling. The level of ridiculousness of the criteria for a mate is inversely proportionate to age of a woman (and men to a lesser degree). As they get older, they (should) just realize what’s really important.
MM,
No, I prefer to use that language, I did not stutter – SETTLE. This is very, very important to knock down a lot of Women who have artificially overinflated SMP value to be knocked down a peg by Reality. If nothing else does this, the Ravages of Time will. It never misses.
O.
This is a test…
O.
Im only commenting to give you a round of applause and a standing o for your post Obsidian.
Nothing less than good sh*t from start to finish. Had me cracking up a few times during the read as well. Good ish.
Mr. SoBo,
Thanks much, good sir; coming from you that is the highest compliment I can think of!
O.
I’ve had f-buddy relationships turn into serious relationships but I see that as the exception, not the rule. Also, I don’t think I slept my way into their hearts. Hanging out and talking before for hours before we went home to do the deed made a difference. There was no simple “are you coming over?” And, in a few instances, I made breakfast one morning for MYSELF, he stayed to eat with me (the smell of biscuits can be intoxicating) and then said “what you doing today?” A relationship grew from there.
If you/he show up at 1 AM, take care of business and then head out by 8 AM, I don’t see how anything can grow from that.
good point…you’ve got to get to know each other more than just in the Biblical sense. that goes back to what another commenter said about the people having to actually like each other as well
“If you/he show up at 1 AM, take care of business and then head out by 8 AM, I don’t see how anything can grow from that.”
a whole night? damn. i thought there was a 3 hour time spend together limit with those types of arrangements?
slightly off then back on topic…
i’d like to add that for around 15 years i have been doing my own extremely scientific lol experiment and no man that meets me more than 3 times is safe. i ask the question “Do men engage or marry the best sex they ever had? This was brought up to me by my brother way back in the days as a kind of response to the very same question of sleeping your way into a man’s heart…
Ladies hold on to your hats… Every man, YES EVERY MAN i have ever asked (that answered) said no. Now this isn’t to give you an excuse to have Paris Hilton style sex but to know and understand that sex just makes up a part of what a man enjoys with you in a relationship. sometimes i feel that we as women get short sighted on the things that are needed for anyone in a relationship a companion, a friend, a confidant, a support system, a collaborator, a person you can build with, a lover, a person with like minded morals and ethics etc…
another take on sexing your way into a man’s heart: from what was written, i don’t even see how the feelings were caught you see him once a week to enjoy each other what has he done other than the obvious that makes you feel you want a relationship with him? ladies be careful that oxytocin (bonding hormone that is released after orgasm AKA the love hormone) is a killer and might make you believe that more is going on than really is.
to men that classify themselves as nice guys i say… please, Please, PLEASE let others call you a nice guy and not just yourself. In my experience the men that i meet that call themselves nice need more people. and if this is the man that champ thinks i honestly think for your tenure abroad you just need to open yourself up. the way the demographic was described up thread it seems like beating yourself up over the few and far between sisters is like a woman removing herself from the dating pool because she can’t get a NFL/NBA player. yes we know black woman are all that/everything you want etc… but we are all human see what else is out there, you just might be pleasantly surprised.
heavy equipment… lol other than pictures WITH a reference object the only way to surely know is the see for yourself
to the newly single lady- yea what champ said
“i’d like to add that for around 15 years i have been doing my own extremely scientific lol experiment and no man that meets me more than 3 times is safe. i ask the question “Do men engage or marry the best sex they ever had? This was brought up to me by my brother way back in the days as a kind of response to the very same question of sleeping your way into a man’s heart…
Ladies hold on to your hats… Every man, YES EVERY MAN i have ever asked (that answered) said no”
this is the thing, though: that “study” you did was a bit flawed because, once a guy sleeps with someone hundreds of times, what might have initially been ‘the best ever’ can turn into, ‘good sex with my girl/wife’. basically, it’s a lot easier for a woman to maintain that “damn, she was the best ever” distinction if a guy has only slept with her like 10-20 times.
i bet some of those married guys considered their wives to be “the best ever” in the sack at some point, but 1000 lays in the hay gave that mythical title to someone else
*Charlie Murphy voice* WRONG, WRONG!
I would have to agree with Yoles on this one.
Champ, you gave some awesome advice.
thanks and sh*t
1. Agreed. What has a man you f*ck once a week done for you to “catch feelings” anyway? Is he worthy of what you’re giving him? Chile please…
One thing I’ve learned in my 29 and 23/24 years on this earth, closed mouths don’t get fed. Tell the man what you want (if you even know what you want). He’ll either get with it or say no. Be prepared to walk away like a G.
2. Agreed. Women do have it harder, so to hear a man complain is like “WTF??”
“And if you are who I suspect you are” I will add: 1) you’re not as misunderstood as you may think. People do hear you; we may not sympathize, but we really do understand. We’re all getting some, it ain’t just you. 2) Continue to speak freely; I understand this to be an open forum.
3. From my experience, hand size is the best predictor of thang size.
4. All this makes sense.
“2. Agreed. Women do have it harder, so to hear a man complain is like “WTF??”
“And if you are who I suspect you are” I will add: 1) you’re not as misunderstood as you may think. People do hear you; we may not sympathize, but we really do understand. We’re all getting some, it ain’t just you. 2) Continue to speak freely; I understand this to be an open forum.”
lol, damn. tell us how you really feel next time
The bottom line about “nice guys” is that there are wack. Period. Not that there is a problem with being nice, but the “nice guy” label is exactly that. A label. Perhaps I’m generalizing but that’s what happens when we start labeling. I think the biggest obstacle they face is their false sense of entitlement that they somehow deserve a good woman because they’re nice. That’s bullshit, and the truth of the matter is that they have absolutely no idea what women find attractive.
Also, anybody can be a nice person. There exist legitimate villians in the world that are nice and friendly, but just genuinely ruthless. Being a “nice guy” does not mean you’re going to be good to a woman or provide the things that she needs, and that is the assumption these “nice guys” make. Stop assuming you know what women want and try to figure it out.
“Nice guys” finish they last as they rightly should. Good guys on the other hand, they don’t seem to have any problems.
Isn’t the whole thing about “nice guys” that they’re so overly good to women that they get pushed over? Well, isn’t that the stereotype rather? Nice guys are usually good guys. The problem I find is that they often don’t have the level of aggression and (over)confidence that many women desire. Nice guys do eventually win though. Somewhere in their 30s when eggs are dwindling.
I think the biggest obstacle they face is their false sense of entitlement that they somehow deserve a good woman because they’re nice.
this needs to be on a billboard. and have the following antidote: “build a bridge and get over it. crybaby.”
This sounds like we have at least one ex in common…
If you pay for the billboard, I’ll get the cable spots.
“I think the biggest obstacle they face is their false sense of entitlement that they somehow deserve a good woman because they’re nice. That’s bullshit, and the truth of the matter is that they have absolutely no idea what women find attractive.
”
Preach!
I’m going to your church this Sunday.
THIS RIGHT HERE! I’m rolling with Ben G. *hand clap! Self-proclaimed “nice guys” are some of the most arrogant, know-it-all-and-want-to-tell-you-about-it dudes I’ve ever met. They think the books they’ve read and the hours of lonely pondering they’ve put in make them experts on women/relationships. And all the reasons for their being single is the woman’s fault. Absolute wacktasticness, indeed!
That story about the coach popping out the tape and just admitting the truth is probably something you will tell the young champs. I may thieve that story myself and tell it to children.lol.
you have my blessing and sh*t. wield the story wisely
Ok the first question, I agree with your advice Champ!
Cut your losses hon, check yo’self for you wreck yo’self and for future refernce stop doing thangs azz backwards. meaning don’t lead with sex if you actually want something meaningful with someone.
2. *yawn*
3. In my experiece if a dude is packing, HE likes to let that be known EARLY, in ways subtle and not so subtle *giggle*. If he is average he is not as prone, and if he is below average you ain’t neva gone actually see, as in view it LOL.
4. I somewhat agree here too, although I have found when you go looking, you often find everything but what you were looking for, “so just live ya life ayeeeeeeeeehhhhh”!!!!
.
“In my experiece if a dude is packing, HE likes to let that be known EARLY, in ways subtle and not so subtle *giggle*. If he is average he is not as prone, and if he is below average you ain’t neva gone actually see, as in view it LOL.”
LOL, I’ve noticed that too OSHH. Guys with bigguns are more likely to encourage you to explore. A guy not being $exual at all is a sign that he isn’t working with anything (note to the ‘nice guys,’ dont give off the wrong signals).
Tis the truth girl LOL!!!!!
This is truth.com! Once, when I was young and dumb, I challenged a man on his size. I forget the convo but I remember saying, “you may not be packing”. I never forget the look on his face. He grabbed my hand and put it on his muscle. I was so shocked that thang was atleast 9+ inches. That taught me that big d guys are always quick to let you know. A small D guy probably would have just cussed me out as he pulled away in his Navigator.
And yes, s.exually open people are usually very good at s.ex.
Muscle. . . perhaps we need to have a conversation about certain flying animals and insects. . .
It IS a muscle….it’s hard, meaty, strong, he can flex it, etc
“That taught me that big d guys are always quick to let you know. A small D guy probably would have just cussed me out as he pulled away in his Navigator”
This is only REALLY funny because its true ~JS
If I may, and at the risk of coming off just a weebit risque, I really don’t see what’s the big (pardon the pun) deal with “size”. Most “size queens” aren’t Women anyway (they’re gay males), and really, how many of you would really want to tangle with Mandingo, Shane Diesel, Richard Mann or Lexington Steele – in the back door? As I recall, all of these fellows have brought tears to many a Woman’s eyes – and from what I could tell, not tears of joy, either.
Now don’t get me wrong, a guy’s gotta have something to work with, but the way y’all are talking it’s you all have a hankering for a coffee table leg or Louisville Slugger to go up there; more than say, 8″, is really pushing it for the vast majority of Women out there.
And besides, if a guy knows what he’s doing, in the words of the great Yoda, “Size, matters not”.
O.
You’re right, size isn’t everything. But if it’s big you know that even if he can’t work it, you can at least do something with it on your own to get the job done so it won’t be a complete waste, LOL. OMG, some of those things I’ve seen them doing in those films just looks painful.
Size matters once a man is under a certain size. If he’s 7 or 8 inches, his knowledge of what to do with it matters more. But, for a man who’s 4 inches…it can pretty much do anything and it still won’t be enough.
Sad but true.
However, I do agree that extra large dudes present another set of challenges, not all of them desirable either.
MoVSS,
Wrt smaller guys: false. The Kama Sutra, among other works, directly addresses this issue. It’s really not a big (pardon the pun again) deal. A Man can make a Woman hit the high note with his pinky if he knows what he’s doing.
Size, matters not.
O.
It may be futile to argue with women about this. We can never really know. Even if it isn’t as large a determinate of function as the masses make it out to be, it may still be a matter of form. Maybe the women enjoy the psychological impact of the aesthetic as much as anything else.
Kind of like how a D cup can make the act more enjoyable for men even though its impact on the mechanics of the act is negligible.
“Size matters once a man is under a certain size. If he’s 7 or 8 inches, his knowledge of what to do with it matters more. But, for a man who’s 4 inches…it can pretty much do anything and it still won’t be enough.”
Exactly… while the act of love shouldn’t send you to the gynecologist… you also don’t want to play where’s Waldo either.
4 or lower is no bueno ~JS
Now don’t get me wrong, a guy’s gotta have something to work with, but the way y’all are talking it’s you all have a hankering for a coffee table leg or Louisville Slugger to go up there; more than say, 8?, is really pushing it for the vast majority of Women out there.
Gonna have to co-sign…… Big is not always all its cracked up to be. While no female wants to hang with an itty bitty man, it truly depends on the motion in the ocean….
I Keigel enough, a big guy is like eating doughnuts on the treadmill ROFL !
That’s a ver importat part too, that I notice the ladies aren’t talking much about…
O.
Would you like to impart some of your male wisdom on my post
I think that’s better left for the ladies to discuss.
O.
Noooo it was a question related to this article a little further up
Who said alla dat???
Pointing out behavioral indicators, is not saying you desire Mr.ED. reading comp boy, I tells ya!.
Come on, take a joke. Size DOES matter but only when a man is small. Average is cool and Big is great to look at. I don’t care how good a man’s stroke is, small wang doesn’t cut it. Pause. I like to be filled up. That feels better to me.
*cues “My Sugar Walls” Sheena Easton written by Prince*
Girth is the secret ingredient.
In a work meeting and silently cracking up at “I like to be filled up.”
I concur!
“I like to be filled up.”
0_o
May her cup runneth over. And may there also be warm towels in great abundance to handle thine spillage.
Amen
passes collection plate.
Thy will be done.
Soooo I am not gonna be a lurker anymore. And I hate to seem like “that person” in class that keeps asking “What if…..?” when everyone else has clearly grasped the issue.
******But what if**** (lol)
You have been building a kinship ( for a year) with someone (say a coworker), have things in common, and just overall vibe with that person on ~levels~. And alongside that there is sexual tension/chemistry. Then one day he comes to your house for you to wash and tighten up his locs ( and he is someone funny about people in his hair), and yall bust it wide open in all the ways you both confess you have been secretly wanting.
We’ve been to the Rodeo twice now, and the second was more intense than the first (not just sexually)….. have we passed the point of no return, or is there still a chance to turn this around? Is it too late to be like “Lets go to the Movies”? I don’t think I wanna be his FB …but also don’t want to jump into being GF/BF? Am I confused? Can’t two people date and “date” each other and see where it goes without slapping a label on this?
~~~~Please be gentle on me lol~~~
Yes. You can’t go backwards with a man. You can say “let’s go to the movies” but be prepared to get plowed afterwards.
Yes you’re confused. From my perspective: I wanna be the only one a guy is f*cking- even if we’re just f*cking. Are you gonna be OK with him jumping out of someone else and jumping in you? Figure out what you really want. If you wanted to date him without $exing, it’s too late for that though IMO.
I agree. I’m actually in a similar situation. Me and dude kinda…umm…fell into bed and somehow keep fallin’ in that mug. I like him, he likes me, but our schedules are all over the place. Plus I know that when sex is introduced upfront, promises of relationships are quite hazy. I think that a man can like you well enough, but as others have said, it’s really up to him to decide if he wants to take it to another level. I also think it’s wise to put all your intentions on the table. It’s not fair to either one of you to pretend you’re cool with just f**king when you want it to be something a little more.
MsMelissa!
parts of your story sound familiar to me. it could work out for you, but don’t EXPECT it to. don’t get caught up too early, and if you sense that happening, pull back a little (don’t disappear, but hang out with friends or other guys more, and be less available). also, always be real with yourself and him about your feelings. if the feelings are mutual, or become so, he’ll let you know. good luck!
you know what? i missed something crucial…you’ve known him for a year already. my bad, i’m thinking this is a recently developed friendship. sorry to say, but this fact makes it less likely it’ll work out for you, love. i wouldn’t count on it. BUT i wouldn’t say there’s no hope at all…just very little lol
If it makes any difference, we are co-workers in different departments. So it’s not a constant interaction. Also we both have different side businesses (sp) and that is how we initially linked up. The chemistry thing has slowly built up…. I am gonna just ask him to hang out (you know a date OUTSIDE my living room) and see what he says.
oh okay, this does improve the outlook
your plan sounds good. i hope this story ends happily for you. comment later sometime & let us know!
It doesn’t improve it love…sorry.
Take heed in this advice, “If a man wants you, you will not have to beg, wonder, ask or overtly seek…he will let you know.”
It’s been a year and he hasn’t mentioned anything related to more than just s.ex? Not a good sign. I still say let him know what’s up, but just lower your expected response from said expression of feelings.
He may just like the current set up. You’ll never know until you ask though.
“We’ve been to the Rodeo twice now, and the second was more intense than the first (not just sexually)….. have we passed the point of no return, or is there still a chance to turn this around? Is it too late to be like “Lets go to the Movies”? I don’t think I wanna be his FB …but also don’t want to jump into being GF/BF? Am I confused? Can’t two people date and “date” each other and see where it goes without slapping a label on this?”
hmm. you’re kind of in relationship limbo right now. technically, you two are f*ck buddies right now, and while it’s possible to rewind and do the traditional “courting” thing, I’m not sure if it’s probable that he’ll make the “you know what, i’m going to court you now” move because between the fact that you’ve already had sex and the fact that you know each other pretty well, you’ve eliminated both reasons for courting.
but, i dont think you’re optionless, though. my advice would be to tell him that while the sex was good, you want to take things slow and actually date and see if we have long-term potential. if he’s truly into you, he’ll be up for it. if not, he probably won’t.
Thanks Champ,
I am going to ask him out on a for real for real date, and if he gets all suspect then I will definitely know. I kinda think there may be hope but I’m really not sure. Last night I made dinner ( we were talking politics etc over dinner) and he caught the itis while I greased his scalp. He didn’t want to go home, but I didn’t want him to stay because that would only confuse me more to spend the night spooning . I just need a little clarification so that I can adjust myself and know where I stand.
I mean I will probably still knock it down cause ummmm WOW ………..
And you know what else, I think that hair thing is a trick. Once guys know that you can do hair, they use that as an excuse to get close to you and it can be somewhat intimate. I’ve braided and twisted locs and somwhow it always ends up in some mess…
@WIP
Ok wait! I must admit that it is a trick (on both sides) . Cause why we gotta get naked in the shower for me to wash your hair?
0_o oops is that an overshare? ROFL
LOL!
You made my side hurt!
but so true . . .
LOL, you right. Cause why I’m wearing a skirt instead of pants when I know you gotta sit between my legs? When a single man asks me to do his hair, I already know what time it is.
@Melissa
Of course you can! The key point you made in your comment is that you guys have great chemistry and you have been building a kinship. The problem with many F buddies is they thrive on s.ex alone with no convo, cuddle, getting to know the person, NADA. Then expect the man to choose her in the end. There’s nothing wrong with s.ex if you’re comfortable giving yourself without commitment, just have something else to offer if you want him to fall for you.
Pump the brakes…meaning there’s no reason to not go out with dude you are s.exing. Ask him to the movies, dinner, whatever and gauge his response. If it’s always some variation of “no” (i.e. I’m busy, I’m going to church, I have to work late, etc) and no offering of alternate plans when he’s free (i.e. “I can’t on thursday but I’m free friday so how about then?”) then he’s not interested in the same way you are.
If you’re feeling particularly bold after those occurances of “no,” just come out and tell him that you would like to get to know him outside the bedroom and you wanted to know if that was something he’s interested in too. I’d actually suggest this as the FIRST resort and not the last. But to each their own.
Bottom line: stop waiting to luck up on him as something more and let your thoughts be known on this early. You waste less time, emotional energy, and detergent on changing sheets so often
contested three pointer = college degree, wide open three pointer = master’s/professional degree, foul shot = PhD
*on deck for her foul shot* this bish is going in THIS year!!!!!
#PhDeez
thanks for stopping by, slim gem. stay classy
thanks for having me, Champikins *curtsies*
*staying classy*
*searches for PhD glitter to throw when Gem is done…
i prefer confetti to glitter but…. if glitter is all you got….
*Wants Gem to purchase a t-shirt I saw that says “Ph.inisheD” when she’s all done
*
OOOOOOOH I LIKEY!!!!!
*jots down in memory to buy this shirt in ~10mos*
“Dear Champ: I’ve been casually dating this guy for a few months now, and I’m beginning to develop feelings for him. Ok. I’m lying. We haven’t been “dating” really, just having sex once a week or so. Yes. We are the dreaded f-buddies. Anyway, my feelings for him have grown, and I want to know if it’s possible sleep your way into a man’s heart? ”
Thank the LORD, that I’ve had this lesson several times, and I’ve learned it FINALLY! The reality is, the beginning of the relationship, or whatever you want to call it, sets the tone for the ENTIRE RELATIONSHIP! So, if you’re giving it up in the first week and he didn’t even have to lift a pinky, you better believe that’s going to be the consistency for the entire whatever you have. So, since, this chica gave it up without the commitment, he ain’t EVEN trying to commit. He’ll think she’s being (in Chicago terms) brand new!
As a result of my new found lesson learned, I don’t entertain ninjas who refuse to put the work in and genuinely show interest. If that means I’ll be on the dry track for the rest of my days…ah well.
Good response, that’s why it is important to at least know what you don’t want early, and have the resolve to not just go along to get along.
BTW I think “brand new” is universal.
“So, if you’re giving it up in the first week and he didn’t even have to lift a pinky, you better believe that’s going to be the consistency for the entire whatever you have. So, since, this chica gave it up without the commitment, he ain’t EVEN trying to commit.”…
This isn’t necessarily the truth. My ex and I were together for 4 years and I gave it up pretty fast (ya, I did it). The difference IMO is that we both wanted a relationship. It’s really more about what you and that person want. If he ain’t trying to be with you it doesn’t matter how fast you give it up. And if y’all are clicking, giving it up early won’t make that much of a difference- BUT I agree that it’s not the best idea because, as I mentioned above, you can’t go backwards. You do need to determine if the man wants what you want and is worthy of what you have to offer. Once both those boxes are checked yes, I say, please him.
You’d be surprised how many people are in the F buddy agreement…ALOT. Aint nothing wrong with it either BUT you better not catch feelings. One of the biggest myths I hear from ladies is that we can eff our way into a man’s heart. Now I aint gonna lie…a good D riding will get you the title of queen b*tch but not wifey. How do I know this? Because most of my friends have eff buddies, then 6 months later they get a call from dude saying he’s met a girl, then almost all end up on my couch asking “why didn’t he choose meeeee?”….cause you gave it up with nothing else to offer so he assumed s.ex was all you wanted. Be an eff buddy with good convo, etc but don’t think you’re gonna win him over with poon alone….maybe poon and a good meal.
There’s no real way to tell if a man has a big peen or not. Just stick with tall men. lol
So you think there is hope behind the three “F”s?
Friend em
Feed em
F$ck em
lol…see that’s why Im in trouble now smh
It happens everyday. Brothas would end up in my trunk, all tied up like “What happened?”…but they were full and satisfied though.
Just kidding. Truthfully speaking it can and does happen all the time. That’s another reason why divorce is 7 out of 10. lol
“Just stick with tall men”
Girl, I can’t cosign this one. I’m five feet, and these 5’5 brothas are packing! Some of the smallest ones I’ve seen were on 6-footers. I gotta represent for my short men, LOL!
True, WIP girl this dude I knew once was bout my height yeah 5’5, he was panamanian, and um yeah, the room got dark LOL.
DIES @ OSHH…
the room got dark.
*tell my mama..i love her.
Hey that’s anatomically incorrect. Besides, everything looks bigger on short men. lolol j/k
Yes, they were wonderfully disproportionate, LOL. You’re right though; I took steps to make sure it wasn’t an optical illusion.
A small D guy probably would have just cussed me out as he pulled away in his Navigator
Not so SFG… I’ve actually known (not in the biblical sense) a few dudes who were no where near standard/average/f*ckable size pull it out or take a pic. Needless to say they were misguided souls who had delusions of grandeur
LMAO Denial is a disease!
Things like “f-buddy” situations always confuse me. I am slightly under 30, and while it seems more normal for my age group, I have made it point to avoid these kinds of situations, as I just don’t see how they are beneficial to women. Sure that has left me less experienced than a substantial amount of women my age,but I think I have been unable to filter out a good number of time wasters. Reading some of these posts however, is starting to make me second guess myself. LOL…clearly some women are really having a good time with these kinds of situations. Am I missing out?
it all depends.
I’ve never had a successful “f-buddy” situation. And by successful I mean the type of situation where it lasted without her wanting more of a relationship. I think in order for them to work, both partners have to put feelings aside and just simply hump. No long conversations, no dates (drinks and hot wings maybe) … basically don’t do any $hit that a real couple would do
No. I don’t think you’re missing out. I was in a long relationship, and when it ended I abstained like a good girl. But my body wasn’t having that so I needed somebody to tighten me up, and I sought someone out just for that purpose. I didn’t have any illusions about the situation. What I found is that I couldn’t have the $ex I really wanted to have with someone I wasn’t committed to so I stopped. Women that let themselves be a f-buddy in hopes of winning a man over aren’t having fun. Women that know what time it is- and are ready to walk away at any moment- can enjoy themselves in those situations. (I’ve also found that there’s something about losing regular $ex that makes guys catch feelings LOL. Kinda weird.)
Should have read (able to filter out). And thanks for your responses!
@ Eff-clearly, I am not built for that kind of thing.
@WIP-I think I would be in the same boat. I probably couldn’t enjoy myself because I would be overly conscious about what he was thinking about me. Being a woman is hard work…LOL
My issue was that in the back of my mind I kept feeling like “I ain’t gonna give this guy all the “good stuff” when he ain’t doing any work for it.” So when I tried to do the f-buddy thing, the $ex got lame fast, LOL. You’re right, it is hard work being a single woman. Being chaste and $exy at the same time is not easy.
Personally, I have found it is much better to abstain than to compromise yourself and/or values, real needs and wants just for a piece and not much else.
It’s not worth it to me and then the sex often times is just mediocre because so much else is missing like WIT alluded to.
Yes, yes you are. I’m not saying you should go to the Army Navy game wearing patriotic underwear, but it is healthy for women to be able to separate the physical aspect of their womanhood from the emotional to some extent. That’s the only way to let your sensual side grow and mature.
A lot of people get repressed because so much external baggage comes with the act that it’s overshadowed by it. The act is supposed to be this magical culmination of your relationship, but you’re disappointed because it isn’t everything it was cracked up to be.
A small D guy probably would have just cussed me out as he pulled away in his Navigator
Not so SFG… I’ve actually known (not in the biblical sense) a few dudes who were no where near standard/average/f*ckable size pull it out or take a pic. Needless to say they were misguided souls who had delusions of grandeur.
Is it possible to sleep your way into a man’s heart?
anything is possible, but more than likely the answer is no.
I think it’s more easier for men to accomplish this with woman. I’ll be the first to tell you that I’m not packing … but for some reason every time I get in to the friends with benefits situation, the female friend seems to catch feelings. This is why I TRY to stay away from these arrangements (droughts are a female dog) Like I said I’m not packing, so I doubt if it’s the $ex that have made my friends catch feelings. So my question for the ladies is if $ex is all that 2 people share why do women catch feelings faster than men? Is it because of the emotional attachment that women tend put with $ex?
I’ve heard others here mention there is a chemical/hormone (?) in ej@culate that affects a woman and helps her develop an attachment- a “love potion”, if you will. LOL. Also, she might not have really been down for the FWB thing in the first place and have feelings all along. [And "packing" is not mondatory in satisfying a woman so it could be something else you have going on in the bedroom too...]
@WIP
Exactly how does this “love potion” work and where should you errrrr “deposit” such a thing?
@eff you couch: It’s so funny that you say that, because a lot of men (mostly the under 30 crowd) walk around all big-headed and ish thinking, “I must be laying it down because she is in love with me.” One guy even said that his junk will have women committing suicide. 0_o And as backwards as it sounds, sometimes the sex may not be all that good, but the fact that I had sex with you (not you, but that particular guy) and shared my body with you is what makes me get attached. Especially if its one of those situations where you knew the person before and their is some chemistry there. It’s possible that women fool themselves into thinking the sex is good because everything else is good with the guy (conversation). But when you step back, you start to realize that the sex wasn’t nearly as good as you thought.
@ eff yo couch
its the oxytocin… look it up… a man doesn’t have to be packing per se for a woman to throughly enjoy themselves and EVERY TIME she has an orgasm the oxytocin pours out… its the bonding hormone, the love hormone and all that jazz
Yup, what Yoles has said. The harder she climaxes the closer she bonds with the Man who made it happen.
O.
Dear Champ: I’ve been casually dating this guy for a few months now, and I’m beginning to develop feelings for him. Ok. I’m lying. We haven’t been “dating” really, just having sex once a week or so. Yes. We are the dreaded f-buddies. Anyway, my feelings for him have grown, and I want to know if it’s possible sleep your way into a man’s heart?
No. You can’t sleep your way into a man’s heart unless he is a “Nice Guy”. Now if he has some feelings for you then being FWB can turn into something more. The easiest way to tell is if he communicates with you outside of telling each other when you want chex. That still not guaranteed. No amount of super cirque du soleil poon will make a guy take you serious unless he is a simp or “Nice Guy”.
Dear Champ: Why is it so difficult for people to understand the viewpoints of those that have experienced differently than them? After trying to drive my points home in the Nice Guys Finish Last blog, I have never felt so isolated and misunderstood in my life.
It’s because you sound more like a guy b****in than a nice guy. I’m keeping it real son. You ever tried not to give a f**k? Have you ever said “f**k these broads” and carried yourself like you meant it? Like I said before let your n*ts hang. Are you really a “Nice Guy”
Nice Guy (male definition) = pushover, milquetoast, asexual, hen peck
If this is your game you need to end it. I use to be a nice guy and I wasn’t. I figured since I’m a 1.5 being a Nice Guy would be my ticket to win. It didn’t work. You have to find what works for you. What does that mean? Paying attention to the type of women you attract and like you. Totally being yourself. If you don’t like the results? Too bad deal with it. Unless you want to wait until those hot chics fall off then you can bag them like groceries. One thing I notice about Nice Guys is that they are always in denial of who they are. Everybody can’t be the Fonz.
Dear Champ: Is there a way to tell if a man is packing heavy equipment or not?
Shouldn’t Liz be answering this?
Dear Champ: I’m a newly single, attractive 36 yr old woman with 3 children. I recently separated from my husband after 18 yrs of marriage. I’m not looking for a relationship now, but I’m interested in dating. How do I go about meeting handsome, nice, respectable, and available men?
At 36 years old with 3 kids you are going to have to get in where you fit in. Nice, respectable, and available men in your age will be available to date. Especially the “Nice Guys” defined above. Champ answer is right. You should have your standards somewhat based on reality and market value. Honestly, depending on how you look after having 3 kids will play a significant role in your dating stock. You didn’t say if you prefer a man without kids. If so you are shrinking your pool. You’ve spent half your life in marriage so starting off with these guys would be good. You didn’t say what you’re attracted to so I don’t know what you think is “nice and respectable”. I do know that at 36 a lot men have their shtick refined to snake or vulture status so beware.
@Humble_One
“Paying attention to the type of women you attract and like you”
This sums it up. Definitely the creed I live by when it comes to men. I’m not everyone’s type….and I’m ok with that.
Dear Champ: Is there a way to tell if a man is packing heavy equipment or not?
Shouldn’t Liz be answering this?
I was thinking the samething
I figured since I’m a 1.5 being a Nice Guy would be my ticket to win. It didn’t work.
all together now:
#idontbelieveyou
#youneedmorepeople
“Because the idea of a black man having actual dating struggles is the complete antithesis of the prevailing idea that we’re all carefree mandingos with limitless romantic options, I understand why it’s difficult for some — and by “some” I mean “some black women” — to have any type of empathy or sympathy for a black “nice guy” finishing last, especially since their own dating acrimony has been widely publicized, scrutinized, and politicized.
It’s almost like a white guy complaining about racial discrimination and intimidation. Even if he’s completely justified in his claims, it’ll take him getting actually murdered by a clan of Hebrew Isrealities outside of The Gap before anyone actually says “You know what? I think he had a point.””
LOL, well put.
I think this is true of anything, and it’s funny because the same “nice guys” who complain about being “not understood” are the same ones that jump on women who complain about things when it comes to men, claiming it’s “bullshit.” It’s and interesting concept because usually those who don’t experience things really CAN’T understand, they just respond via how THEY would act in the situation. (ex. “Folks sayin ‘I don’t know what kinda men/women you deal with, but I wouldn’t react that way.”)
Oh, and I also thought the person who asked this was who you thought of, Champ. Every VSB/VSS common frequenter has their “claim to fame”… that just so happens to be his.
Damn Champ!
Why did you have to call me out? Now I’ll have to start posting under a different identity. . .
lol
I love VSB
whats funny to me is that most of the MEN seem to agree with Champs’ theory about snagging a man but a lot of women, seem to say otherwise.
I think its the safest bet to roll with the men. I mean my daddy can tell me a lot of stuff but I take the vag advice from my mom…. lol
I agree with all of the advice given.
especially on the self proclaimed nice guy. I tend to be skeptical about any titles one has given themself.
most of the times they are the least accurate description and typically the self proclaimed nice guy is an as.s hole.
I have come across a lot of “nice guys” that dont finish last and I married the last one I came across and the first one is my best friend.
but neither of them are indecisive or weak…
Yeah, so I recently got a promotion. I’m the boss of some people now, so I don’t have the opportunity to hang out round here all day like I used to. Therefore, I will jump in here right quick and say what I gots ta say.
Coochie, head game, good looks and good cooking will indeed get you a man; how-some-ever, if you are looking to keep said man, you had better have some intangibles to go along with that ish. For example, if your man likes food and quiet when the game is on, you need to be able to provide that. If your man needs time to decompress when he gets home from work and goes straight to the mancave to play Madden, leave him be and let him do that. There are all kinds of little things that men do to maintain their sanity. Unfortunately women often beef with them about those things, which is counterproductive. Figure out what that man needs to just “be” and let him just be (as long as that need isn’t other women). Provide that man with peace of mind and he won’t go nowhere… unless the head game falls ALL THE WAY off. LOL… but not really… keep your head game up.
duly noted
Congrats on the promo!!!!
Thanks girl!
mmmmmmm IDK you can be ALL those tings* and then some, but if that particular man doesn’t want to kept, then what? The man or woman has to want to walk with you. Some people can had but never held, and you have to know this too.
You are absolutely correct about a dude who doesn’t want to be kept. However, in my scenario, the guy has entered the realtionship with the former f-buddy because he wanted to. I’m not talking about a situation where the chick was laying coochie traps. That ish don’t work. What I’m talking about when a f-buddy situation naturally evolves into a real relationship.
Hole’ up hole’ up! I’m a manager too. You must DELEGATE girl. That’s less work for you. Now come on back to VSB. lolol j/k Congrats!
LOL! Thanks girl. I’ve already delegated all that I can. I have a whole new set of professional development responsiblities that only I can carry out and a bunch of meetings that only I can attend. This ish is SERIOUS.
Can you sleep your way into a man’s heart?
No, and unfortunately I had to learn this the hard way back in the day. Like Champ said, it’s not totally impossible, but it’s not likely. I had let down after let down, and at the time I just couldn’t understand why – esp when the chexual chemistry was really strong. Guys just aren’t hard wired that way, chex and emotions are two separate things for them.. Casual chex is like the equivalent of making out for a guy. I don’t know why this hard for women. If you meet a guy and don’t sleep with him right away, time will reveal all. How do u know if he’s genuinely interested? Does he call you and actually want to have a conversation (and not text only)? Has he asked you out on a date? (I personally think three is the magic number) Does he want to spend time during the weekend with you? (Sunday doesn’t count) Does he ask you questions about your likes/dislikes, your interests, family, etc? If you can answer “no” to more than one of these questions, then unfortunately he’s just not that into you. And once you fall into that pattern of him coming through/asking you to come over after he comes from the club, gets home from work, etc. it’s a wrap. Suck it up and play your position or grab ya coach bag and get the f*ck outta there..
+1. That is why I truly believe that a relationship shouldn’t be based on chex alone. A lot of peeps are compatible chexually but aren’t compatible on intangibles to make a successful relationship.
@tgtaggie what are intangibles exactly? I’ve been in discussions over the past few months with friends and no one has really defined it or given concrete examples…
I would say each guy’s intangibles are different. I can only give you what my intangibles in a woman are. She would have to compatible with me spiritually and emotionally. More importantly she has to have the potential to grow with me over time.
True statement sir. It’s all about synergy. You need to compliment each other on multiple levels. That’s always your ticket in. And for the poster that said he doesn’t want to be kept: While that might be true for males of a certain age there comes a point where even if you aren’t looking for a long term relationship if you happen to stumble into something that looks like it could be, you don’t look a gift horse in the mouth.
@tgtaggie & @davidruffin83 thanks for the clarification; I was thinking that intangibles were values/morals that people have to agree on (or agree to disagree on) in order to have a successful relationship (as in, some things are not negotiable). Are intangibles different from deal breakers?
Question: How many people have submitted their profile for VSS (Very Smart Singles) yet? just wondering, cause I’ve been procrastinating sumethin serious…
I have not….but never say never. LOL
I haven’t but just looking at the lack of color in general in my area I highly doubt there will be anything jumpin off around here.
So glad I found this website (YAY LUVVIE!!!!)….. Gonna recommend it to all my girl little cousins over 18….
short time reader, first time commentor.
“I’m a newly single, attractive 36 yr old woman with 3 children…”
Those were some suprisingly poignant words you shared with the young lady. I think she will do herself a world of good if she takes your advice. I see why you all call yourselves VSBs. Well you Champ, that PJ is a dayumn fool lol.
SN: I am niether newly single, a women, nor have three children. Just given credit where credit is due.
LMAO- It truly amazes me how little women of all races know about men in general and how little black women in particular know about relationships. I laugh out of love, but it is disheartening to hear black women bicker back and forth about whether a woman can “get” a guy with her sex.
Every woman, gets every man because of her sexuality. I will say it again for those in the back…EVERY WOMAN, GETS EVERY MAN BECAUSE OF SEX! This is the worst kept secret in the history of humanity. You can keep fooling yourself into thinking there is some more altruistic reason why men marry/copulate. Trust a guy that really has no ulterior motive, its always for sex. We go out and work hard for sex (the money is the conduit to get sex), we purchase nests (homes) to prove we can provide for sex, we buy cars for further proof, we bathe, wear cologne, offer food and drinks for one reason-SEX!
Men need the guidance of a woman to show them that monogamy and complete devotion is good for them! Standing around on the sidelines wishing and hoping and complaining that things need to be different will never work… You must perform the work. Looking good, smelling good, tasting good and making him believe that your Queen Dom is well earned. If not he will stray and lie and men lie for one reason; the same reason they do every thing else… Sex!
Now as a man, I am ashamed for those who don’t already know this, this one thing is what I mentioned in another post, that women of other races have figured out a long time ago and sisters simply have not grasped (on a mass scale). 46% of Black women are not married and most will never marry because they have not figured out that men want to be and seek to be directed by their partner through sex. I am not saying playing silly little games, using sex as a weapon and other ploys mentioned here. I mean real, loving direction through sex. It matters not if a woman gives it up on the first date or the 55th, gives great oral or engages in anal. The difference maker is knowing her man, setting the agenda and making direct demands; all the while letting the man know what the reward will be-the most sensuous, pleasurable , mind blowing love making that he ever imagined.
You want a man to be real….. Then you yourself have to be real. Lose the flakiness; stop asking him to be anything other than a man. Accept his horniness, accept his insecurities, feed his ego, indulge him his fantasies. Just make sure that he knows the price of these things. If in the beginning you catch him lying, reprimand him, let him know you know he is full of shit. Change the direction and set the course. Your course! It can’t be done with just your mouth though… you have to set the table and sit down before him and eat! Then and only then will he follow your lead. His morals heighten, his responsibilities double and works to achieve the standard that you set.
Your other course could be to remain hard, indignant, stubborn and male-like. The men in your life will revolt; they will fight, be bitter and won’t want you as a woman, but as an adversary! Something to conquer for the sake of conquering. If you want the ultimate man… You have to be the ultimate woman. You don’t have to match wills when as a woman you can bend them. Be a seductress and not his best friend and not his equal, be his BETTER half! Best him at being a woman and not a male acolyte. He will worship you and stop lying and stop struggling against your will, he will serve it.