Clueless: Three Chivarly Conundrums That Continue to Baffle Us

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***Before beginning, I want to remind everybody that Your Degrees Won’t Keep You Warm at Night: The Very Smart Brothas Guide to Dating, Mating, and Fighting Crime is available at Amazon.com.

Also, we’d like to thank you all for helping us reach #1 on Amazon’s Movers and Shakers list and #4 on Amazon’s Bestsellers in Love, Sex & Marriage Humor list!***

“21st Century Chivalry” — chapter seven in Your Degrees Wont Keep You Warm At Night — devotes 3,000 or so words to the idea that there’s a certain way that men and women should treat each other; a set of guidelines that covers everything from “Facebook chivalry” and “Medieval freaks” to “Who should sleep in the wet spot, and why?” and “Should penis proficiency matter when deciding whether to make certain bedroom requests?”

But, despite this chapter’s comprehensiveness – and by “comprehensiveness” I mean “comprehensiveness silliness“ — there are a few things about chivalry and social etiquette that I intentionally neglected to mention because, well, I just don’t f*cking know the answers. (Shocker, right?)

Thing is, I’m not alone. While most of us are somewhat aware of most of the rules of chivalry (even if we chose to ignore them), there are several chivalry/social etiquette conundrums that continue to baffle each of us, and I decided to shed light on three of them today so we can finally get some f*cking answers.

1. If a man and a woman are both approaching a revolving door, who goes first?

We already know how men and women are supposed to navigate doors, elevators, lines, and getting on and off public buses. Basically, all a chivalrous man has to do is position himself in the best possible place to get a clear look at a woman’s ass. (Think about it: everything from opening doors to letting women have your seat on crowded buses just gives a man a better opportunity to admire a woman’s ass-to-waist ratio.)

But, there aren’t any set rules for the revolving door. Does a man push through the doors first and risk his clumsy-ass woman getting her heel stuck in-between the revolving doors, tripping, and giving herself a grade-two concussion, or should the man allow the woman to go through first, risking his woman getting swept away by a sudden microburst of hoodrat activity as soon as she exits the doors?

Also, while we’re on doors…

2. Is a man still required to open car doors if a woman is driving?

I understand the reasoning behind opening the passenger door for a woman (you’re making sure she gets in the car safely, and, well, the whole booty peek thing), but what was once practical seems like useless pandering if a woman is driving.

Plus, if you open the driver side door for her, it now creates this awkward moment where she has to wait for your non-driving nincompoop ass to loaf all the way around the car before she’s able to take off, and those 10 seconds are all she needs to think to herself  “Damn it. I need to just run his ass over so I can get me a new man who actually f*cking drives. Damn Kappas!”

3. If you’re at a restaurant and your date decides mid-meal that the food needs to be sent back, should you continue eating your meal, or should you also stop mid-meal and wait for your date’s food to come back?

We all know that you’re not supposed to start your main course until everyone at the table receives theirs. In fact, most places make sure to serve everyone at the exact same time for this reason, and some waiters will even let the patrons know that a certain dish “takes a bit long” to prepare, which is just code for “Look. You can order this food. Be my f*cking guest. But, since this contrived-ass dish is going to take 180 minutes for us to make, be prepared to have the entire rest of your party pissed at you, and also be prepared to have me pissed at you since their pissed-offedness and your collective blackness basically ensures my tip will suck.”

But, what’s the protocol for when your date returns the meal after you’ve already begun eating? Do you just sit there and stare at each other? Return your perfectly delicious meal as well? Give him/her some of your food? Tease them for ordering a sh*tty meal? Eat slower? Order more bread? Bounce? Bounce to the back and have a Applebee’s bathroom quickie? Who f*cking knows?

***Btw, anyone who thinks this is a too contrived scenario has obviously never been on a date with an actual human woman. At last count, the “she doesn’t like her food (even though they gave her exactly what she ordered) and now I’m the only one eating while her hungry ass is making goo goo eyes at my steak” thing has happened to me at least 171 times.***

Anyway, people of VSB: do you have any answers? Any proofs for these problems? Any results for these riddles? Any clues to solve these conundrums?

Also, can you think of any other chivalry conundrums that you just haven’t been able to solve?

The carpet is yours.

***Btw, if you get a minute, check out my profile on upcoming R&B group “The Maintenance Men” at Clutch Mag***

—The Champ

422 thoughts on “Clueless: Three Chivarly Conundrums That Continue to Baffle Us”

  1. you bastards, i went to bed at 11pm and after realizing i was still tossing and turning at 11:49 i actually thought the words “might as well stay up for the VSB post” … damn you. you are now one of 12,000 things f*cking with my sleep

    i don’t think anyone should wait for someone’s food to arrive the SECOND time. then again … my nickname is fatgrlatheart lol

    and revolving doors depends on how much of a hurry you are in, no need to wait or push first.

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  2. 1. The man goes first, to get the door moving so she is not the one exerting all the initial force.
    2. Yes, if you open doors then open the door. (Personally, I’d rather open my own door in all cases because if its hot I don’t wanna wait in a hot car while you walk around and if its cold, I don’t want to wait for you to get the car started and the heat on #ImJustSayin)
    3. No, she should insist you keep eating so your meal isn’t ruined but even if she doesn’t you should still continue eating so your meal isn’t ruined IMO

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      • I agree. I think it’s polite only if you are eating a sandwich or something else that doesn’t need to be warm to enjoy. Otherwise, keep eating. LOL

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    • “3. No, she should insist you keep eating so your meal isn’t ruined but even if she doesn’t you should still continue eating so your meal isn’t ruined IMO”

      i can agree with this.

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    • It makes me really hard to remember to open doors when ya’ll modern women have already rushed to the car before me, got your hand on the handle, and looking back at me like PRESS DA DAMN BUTTON NUGGET!

      One of my exes used to wait at the door with her arms folded. She’s doing it right.

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    • It makes me really hard to remember to open doors when ya’ll modern women have already rushed to the car before me, got your hand on the handle, and looking back at me like PRESS DA DAMN BUTTON NUGGET!

      One of my exes used to wait at the door with her arms folded. She’s doing it right. SimplySope knows who she is.

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  3. #1 The man can yield the door to her. He does not have to push.
    #2 Always open the door. She can sneak a peek as he walks around.
    #3 He should keep eating. His dinner should not be ruined.

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  4. 1. She goes first.
    2. Yes you should open the door. (This is the least important thing in my book, especially if its cold. Just get in… And don’t touch my radio.)
    3. Order another drink and wait for her meal. (The thought of that happening makes me sad. Maybe because I never send my food back).

    Can we add a 3a: if she is driving and you’re riding, who pumps the gas? Notice I didn’t say pay (because who ever owns the car should pay), I said pump.

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    • 3a. I do think that the guy should pump the gas on the date.

      In regards to all women saying the guy should always open the door i feel like people are missing the practical side of the door being locked 0_o

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      • Petrol questions always get a weird response. I say she pays, but he could offer to pump it, go on show us your pumping action ;-) .

        Offering his coat when it’s cold. Why you don’t have enough clothers on in the first place is a mystery, but does he/should he offer his overcoat to you?

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        • In being a man, we are supposed to put our well being behind the well being of women. Regardless if we are on a date, or passing by or just notice them having a hard time. This is how my mother raised me.

          However, Society has all sorts of misfits and crazies and negative reinforcement is extremely aversive.

          1:When going in doors, Ladies first- Always.

          2:When dealing with the car situation, an ounce of preparation is always best. Know what is expected of you before the situation arises. You would know by talking with the woman and I’m assuming that if she is driving you know her well enough to allow her control of your life – no Rhianna

          3:Men pump the gas. Offer to help with it, you riding, carry your weight, the symbolism is important and she WILL hold it AGAINST you even if she doesn’t think she will.

          Exhibit (A)There is a very well renowned book on etiquette written by Emily Post.

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          • Oh, and of course you just distract her with conversation or some other diversion. The food isn’t as important as her faith in your ability to meet her emotionally. And leaving her behind (metaphorically speaking) is something that may raise red flags depending on the woman.
            Of course, Etiquette is steeped deeply in benevolent sexism. So, there is no one way but following the rules of etiquette, you NEVER leave her behind even at her request.

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        • He should totally offer the coat!

          When my cousin and her now boyfriend were in the getting to know you stage the two of them went to a football game and my girlfriends and I happened to end up sitting a few rows behind them in the stands. I was a sophomore in college and wearing the requisite 2000s uniform of black baby-tee, flare jeans, clunky boots and no jacket. When her dude realized that I was shivering he offered me his coat! He was a gentleman to me, a third party, and I told her that night that he was the one! Eight years later they’re still together and I see wedding bells in their future.

          So, to answer your question…the reason I didn’t have enough clothes on in the first place was because I was trying to be cute!

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            • In his/their defense they weren’t really dating then. They were just friends for a long time and I don’t know specifically how long they’ve been together together. Over the course of those 8 years though she finished undergrad and got an MBA and he finished a second masters and started working towards his PhD in education administration. They did recently have their first child and now that they’re not doing the long distance thing and cohabitating and all it could work. :)

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          • @AtypicalLibrarian

            “the reason I didn’t have enough clothes on in the first place was because I was trying to be cute!”

            I Love This!!

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          • So, to answer your question…the reason I didn’t have enough clothes on in the first place was because I was trying to be cute!

            Thats too funny!! My mother is constantly telling me you don’t have to be cold to be cute…you can be cute and warm. And she says this loudly…in the street…when a chick with a spring jacket walks by in a NYC blizzard.

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            • I like your mother! I was 19/20 when this happened and the mother of one of the girls that I was with gave all three of us a hard time for not having on jackets. She actually made her daughter carry a jacket with her even though she took it off as soone as we got in the car!

              I’ve since learned my lesson and upped my outerwear game. #ishouldbeworking

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    • A man should always pump the gas, whether he’s driving or riding. I shake my head at men that allow a woman to pump gas while they sit in the car listening to music or playing on the phone.

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    • “Can we add a 3a: if she is driving and you’re riding, who pumps the gas? Notice I didn’t say pay (because who ever owns the car should pay), I said pump.”

      yea, this is a weird situation because if you pump and she pays, she’s either going to have to leave the car anyway to pay at the station, or hand you the debit card and give you the password so that you can swipe at the pump.

      my advice? just live somewhere where you can walk everywhere

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      • If you live in DC proper, that might work. If you live in the burbs like me (VA) that might not work.

        The rules of etiquette and chivalry have always been confusing to me. Actually, I don’t think I’m particularly fond with whoever created either. It makes you have to think about things way too hard that otherwise would be obvious. For example, why does a man have to take off his hat inside a building? Or when the national anthem is sung? Especially if his hair is not in the best shape or his head is cold. Out of respect? Says who? Respect for who/what?

        About your gas-pumping issue, another option would be to give him the card and tell him to use it as a credit card. That way you won’t have to give out your pin number. I have done that in the past with my father, brother, and best (guy) friend. So I’m sure that’d work for a boyfriend as well. :)

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    • Pumping gas falls outside of the range of chivalry to me. If it’s a bad neighborhood or raining, then yeah, but in general men aren’t better equipped to do it because we are more physically capable, it’s just annoying for both sexes.

      I’m not sure where I fall on the spectrum of men doing something by default just because it’s annoying and someone has to do it. Should men always have to take the dog out to take a crap? Is chivalry really just “men should take the L off GP”?

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        • I guess we have different definitions of chivalry. And I love how they become OUR babies when you’re making a point. When they get straight As, your babies. Custody battle, your babies. Drinking out of the neighbors dog bowl, our babies.

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      • Medium Meech

        Not You. You mean you won’t pump gas for your chick if she is driving? Aawwwhhh Meech. Dang.

        I wouldn’t expect dude to walk the dog all the time. Now I’m guilty of expecting him to always take out the trash; but I will fix his plate first when we’re at a BBQ, friends, you know…

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        • Not saying I wont do it, just don’t think that is a “Guy” thing. Doing it is being nice, not chivalrous. Like I wouldn’t expect my girl to look at me sideways if I didn’t do it or have her expect me to it because she has ovaries. It would be more like asking me to grab her a soda from the fridge than me taking out the trash.

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  5. *1. If a man and a woman are both approaching a revolving door, who goes first?*

    A gentleman would actually allow the woman to enter the revolving door first so that way he guides the door most of the way minimizing her efforts and also allows you to see her paces as to not go too fast.

    Alternative: Gentleman can go first but would actually stay inside the revolving door until she exits, this would mean you would enter first and exit last. I believe this is actually in the book How to be a Gentleman, go holler at Brooks Brothers. Note: I have done this and someone looked at me crazy. lol

    *2. Is a man still required to open car doors if a woman is driving?*
    Lol its polite and one of my frat brothers does this, i still think its foolish. This makes more sense if the woman has automatic lock and you open the door for her and proceed to your side. If its not automatic i think it creates more inconvenience than it does promoting chivalry. Youd have to ask for the keys(which shed assume your driving only to be let down), then youd open the door and have to give her the keys back. Its just too involved for me.

    *3) If you’re at a restaurant and your date decides mid-meal that the food needs to be sent back, should you continue eating your meal, or should you also stop mid-meal and wait for your date’s food to come back?*

    I think only a dating scenario makes this more complicated. In most dining scenarios when you have hot food, the etiquette rules change so that way your meal is not getting cold. I personally would offer her my meal and or just use the time for a chance to talk and not worry about food being in either of our mouths when I ask a question

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  6. Owno the answers either, Champ. All I know is that in some situations it is not a good look to send food back. Prepare to get your vittles spat in, booty rubbed, and other disgusting things to add “flavor”.

    It probably also depends on the [quality of the] restaurant and how nicely you ask or if something on your plate is totally wrong and will make you sick. I totally understand that and I think those are very valid exceptions. I sent my food back once and I was very nice to my server. In my situation, I know certain cuts of meat are better rare, but I’m a “well-done to medium well” kind of woman in most situations. The bloody red meat wasn’t appetizing and I needed more heat to my steak.

    Also, in my experience, folks who have all kinds of specifications, problems, mind changing, critiques, and asking for the moon tend to be a bit much in the long run and honestly get on my nerves. Don’t get me wrong, not regular stuff. I mean stuff out the norm that folks definitely recognize when they see it.

    In my situation of sending my food back because I didn’t want to eat like a vampire, I had no problem with my date continuing to enjoy his food. I insisted he do so. I don’t know why his perfectly good meal has to get cold because mine was being modified.

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    • 1) If a man and a woman are both approaching a revolving door, who goes first?

      the man should allow the lady to go through the door first so she can set the pace of the door.

      2) Is a man still required to open car doors if a woman is driving?*

      in this day and age of automatic locks i say only if they are on her side of the car. if they are walking toward the car and she beep-beeps the alarm he can open her door for her but going out of your way to open a door for a driver just seems like a bit much.

      3) If you’re at a restaurant and your date decides mid-meal that the food needs to be sent back, should you continue eating your meal, or should you also stop mid-meal and wait for your date’s food to come back?

      This falls under basic table etiquette, she should insist that he continue to eat his meal and not have it ruined and getting cold waiting for her. he should continue to eat but maybe slow down as to have them still eat “together” ordering another drink for both of them is nice and request more bread/rolls/whatever instant table food is given.

      3a) He should pump the gas… No ifs ands or buts about it

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        • Sometimes when we take my truck I like to drive, just because I like my truck. If I have a better car than the guy does, than usually I will want to take my vehicle.

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        • LOL!

          when my parents go anywhere together, my mom is driving. because she HATES the way my dad drives. and in general my mom makes a terrible passenger (she has her hands on the dash board and shes pushing the imaginary brake pedals on the passenger side and everything).

          but im the opposite. even if we’re taking my car, i dont like to drive, i hand the keys to my man.

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          • because she HATES the way my dad drives. and in general my mom makes a terrible passenger (she has her hands on the dash board and shes pushing the imaginary brake pedals on the passenger side and everything).

            Oh boy! I’m going to become your mom… Lol. I hate driving, but what I hate more than driving? the way the S.O drives… Oh mi god! I HATE the way he drives and I am completely tensed when we drive… So I often find a way to drive… or I just pass out and sleep. :)

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    • “Owno the answers either, Champ. All I know is that in some situations it is not a good look to send food back. Prepare to get your vittles spat in, booty rubbed, and other disgusting things to add “flavor””

      yeah. i cringe every time my girl sends something back, because I figure her meal is going to return with the swine flu

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    • I also don’t quite understand the “sending the food back ” folks… I have a friend who ALWAYS have something to complain about or that is not quite up to her standards… and this is in every restaurant regardless of the standing… it is so annoying. Ugh.

      I don’t remember ever sending my food back… If I don’t like it, I’ll poke at it or have it to go and feed it to my neighbor’s dog. End of story.

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      • Well I’ll explain for us: we are picky have discriminating palates and we’re paying for this. I didn’t visit the restaurant to light my money on fire. Give me what I paid for and no dirty *extras* por favor.

        I don’t always send my stuff back though. If I can pick something off or put some some sauce/salt/pepper on it to make it work, that’s the first option.

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  7. Read the signs
    if the signs say enjoy the view, ENJOY THE VIEW. Its all that is free and good about most women.
    Besides the uniform is generally nicer than the helmet anyway.

    Avoid revolving doors, they’re like relationships

    Appetizers, salad, soup, sorbet, bread were invented for men that intend to date women like those 171 dates of yours. Take advantage of it!

    After relationships begins, restaurants, holidays and when you cheat will be the only times you get great meals. And usually if its your girl offering you a great meal, there is strange news attached.

    Run like Forrest!

    With the exceptions of old women, small children, women with small children in arm, the loser of the cat fight and the girl cooking breakfast in my shirt, I take every opportunity to throw chivalry under a freight train.
    Simply because there are no complimentary rules and I don’t like those double standards or the price.

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  8. 1) This actually happened to me last weekend. The gentleman in question playfully suggested we go in at the same time. I found this quite charming and it definitely scored some extra points with me. Meanwhile, it gave him an excuse to get a little closer than circumstances would normally allow without seeming sleazy (and me as well). Win win.

    2) No, that’s just silly and, quite frankly, half-arsed chivalry. Like throwing down the lady’s coat on a puddle for her to walk over it…or only paying for the appetizer portion of her meal. Either pony up the full monty treatment for chivalry or just don’t bother. Otherwise, it just comes off as wishy-washy and disingenuous. For instance, rather than getting her door, perhaps he can offer to drop her off and park the car, bring it around after the meal, and/or tip the valet.

    3) Offer to let her taste some of his meal while they wait, but stopping completely isn’t necessary. Also, there’s something kind of intimate and implicit about splitting morsels with someone. Sharing is caring…which can lead to baring. *Especially* if the lady in question is a foodie.

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    • 1. I was definitely thinking go at the same time…it’s actually a tradition for me and the Mrs.

      Co-sign on the rest of the post as well. They seem like opportunities to be closer to that other person.

      Sidenote: Chi-town seems to have the most revolving doors I done ever seen in my lifetime…

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      • a. She has her own car and knows how to get to wherever we’re going.
        b. She wanted to drive my car.
        c. My cars are unavailable but hers is.
        d. I’m falling asleep or have had too much to drink.

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    • “Meanwhile, it gave him an excuse to get a little closer than circumstances would normally allow without seeming sleazy (and me as well). Win win.”

      smart man. did you ‘stop short” too?

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  9. I think he should motion for her to go first, then if she declines; he still looks good. If not he seems like he doesn’t have manners…IMO

    Nope, she’s driving; she can open her own darn door. Most likely it’s her car, if it was all that (wanted to impress her/court her) why didn’t he drive?????

    I’m not an advocate for sending food back. I think it would depend on how much money was at “steak”… I’m often frustrated when people send stuff back because most people that do so usually have made it a habit. If you’re that d@mn picky; maybe you should consider not eating at restaurants or hire a personal chef to cater your evening…

    Should he continue to eat? He should @ least “act” like he’s not going to continue to eat and see what she says… Either way, seems to me like a good way to weed out b*tchassness for either party.

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    • “Should he continue to eat? He should @ least “act” like he’s not going to continue to eat and see what she says… Either way, seems to me like a good way to weed out b*tchassness for either party.”

      so basically, this is the male equivalent of the fake reach for the check?

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  10. 1. I would let the woman go first. I even let some men go ahead of me. I just think it’s a respect issue or even “chivalrous” act. I’m not in that much of a hurry. I’m a born southerner.

    2. I never thought about that. I guess it would be an act but isn’t the man supposed to drive the woman anyway…

    3. I would wait on their food to come back. Of course, I’m a gentleman I’m going to give those answers. Knowing if a gentleman turned brotherman is hawngry, I don’t know.

    What about if your date has to excuse themselves from the table, are you supposed to stand up?

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