well i guess i would just end up saying the same thing that is in the article. i will end with

if your man is a hoe… there is notihng you can do to change it.

Tyler later contradicts: “…you seem to assume that there are inherent differences between men and women. I do not.”

so you don’t believe that men are naturaly (sic) and inherently physically stronger than women either?

is physical strength male versus female one of the areas where you feel society has also socialized the differentiation?

***there’s no contradiction here. he says clearly that male and female behavior (<<<—— ) is gendered, and though there are differences in men and women’s strength, think of the activities boys are encouraged to participate in versus those activities that are stereotypically female. can you truly say society doesn’t also gender physical development?

i’m with Tyler here. too often behaviors are ascribed along gender lines, and we never question why we so readily accept them. every time i hear the emotional/rational dichotomy that supposedly describes the major difference between women and men, i get annoyed because it’s rooted in a legacy of undermining women’s intellect and relegating them to position where they can be easily dismissed.

as for the monogamy thing, yeah it’s not natural. unfortunately, people have become so wedded to the idea, alternative, more healthy options are frowned upon. too bad.

you say: “I actually wasn’t talking about physical strength. I was talking about behavior.”

parting shot.

you’ve already stated you believe how sensitive men and women are to emotions is a learned behavior. i guess we both agree that inherently women are weaker than me in general physically. wonder why? i don’t pretend to know, but it’s true huh?

interesting.

fire back.

is physical strength male versus female one of the areas where you feel society has also socialized the differentiation?

I actually wasn’t talking about physical strength. I was talking about behavior. I probably should have been clearer when I said there are no inherent differences in behavior in men and women. Of course men have a Y chromosome and tend to be stronger, but that is separate from behavior.

I think at this point it does seem like splitting hairs because one grasps at different language to say the same thing over and over. I think we have fundamental differences in how we view the world and that’s okay. I think we have to agree to disagree.

Tyler later contradicts: “…you seem to assume that there are inherent differences between men and women. I do not.”

so you don’t believe that men are naturaly and inherently physically stronger than women either?

is physical strength male versus female one of the areas where you feel society has also socialized the differentiation?

Tyler says: [men compared to women] “It is in no way the same as harm that women suffer under sexism and patriarchy. Again – this is just simply true.”

we agree on the above quote because by definition sexism is geared against women particularly [not exclusively] and patriarchy by definition puts men in leadership position over women and children BUT what you have asserted in earlier conversations is social mores were created [primarily] to control [exercise power over] women. i’m not so sure about that. some perhaps. all or most, not so sure. {especially in todays society}

mores – the accepted traditional customs and usages of a particular social group, moral attitudes.
manners; ways.

women have been responsible for crafting social mores as much as men have. they continue to change and women certainly contribute greatly.

Tyler quibbles: “Further, your acceptance of original sin doesn’t refute any points I make – it proves them. This comment [fallen angel toppled paradise thru Eve because she was more easily influenced by emotion and possesed less physical strength than Adam] accepts that women are more corruptible than men. This is sexist.”

corruptible – capable of being corrupted

corrupt – marked by immorality and perversion; depraved. venal; dishonest: containing errors or alterations, archaic. tainted; putrid

Eve did not have to be any of the definitions of corrupt or corrptible to naturally be weaker physically than a man and more easily persuaded by her emotions.

i didn’t say i accepted original sin [not that i dont] i did however attempt to explain how the story can make sense.

Tyler says: “Men do not have that [POTENTIAL for being oppressed] to the same degree from women that women do from men. Simply a true statement.”

we agree on this statement and i understand the male female power dynamic you speak of but where we seem to disagree is that any of it is natural. [particularly where it regards physical and emotional aspects]

Tyler reports: “Again – boy babies tend to be more emotional than girl babies, yet women end up being more emotional. Why? Socialization.”

i’d like to analyze the study you speak of and say that it is but one study which does not prove unequivocaly, anything.

i patiently await your equivocation and splitting of hairs sir. lol!

I take issue with this for a number of reasons, the greatest of which is that I believe very little behavior is truly gendered. I believe we all are born with the capacity to behave a number of ways and that what happens over time is we are socialized to behave in certain ways (according to gender more times than not)

if i were constructing an offensive i would attack my opponents at their weakest point. we all have weak points male and female. if were going to attack a man physically/numerically/technologically stronger than me and mine, psy-ops would advise that i consider going thru his woman/women to get to him. it has worked on many ocassion. i guess you need references now huh? perhaps this is why the story of “The Original Sin” records that the fallen angel attacked mankind directly by way of Eve and not Adam.

Your comments actually prove my point because you seem to assume that there are inherent differences between men and women. I do not. I think any gender differences are purely socialized. Again – boy babies tend to be more emotional than girl babies, yet women end up being more emotional. Why? Socialization.

Further, your acceptance of original sin doesn’t refute any points I make – it proves them. This comment accepts that women are more corruptible than men. This is sexist.

Yes I do always assume that women are more oppressed. but let me unpack that a bit. That statement doesn’t mean that every moment of a woman’s life is oppressed and horrible. Understanding power dynamics means that you understand that the POTENTIAL for oppression is always there. It’s like when people say that a black man could get shot walking to the store. A cop could take his life in a routine stop. That is how power works. You walk around, you live with the knowledge that someone else has power over you. Men do not have that to the same degree from women that women do from men. Simply a true statement.

I don’t make comments to suggest that men are not harmed in life by sexism or patriarchy. Far from it. My point is to put that harm into perspective. It is in no way the same as harm that women suffer under sexism and patriarchy. Again – this is just simply true.

true but i don’t believe that most rules [i.e. monagomy] are meant to control women especially in todays society.

generally speaking [men and women=mankind] needs order and control. the million dollar question is always who/m is/are doing the controlling and where are they drawing the lines.

i define “open relationship” as being: that a person is free to sleep with whomever they want and be open with their partners about who they sleep with and free of prejudice (regardless of living situaions, love or otherwise) i think we agree on this definition because you said: “It could be understanding multiple relationships that take different forms.” somehow you thought i might have meant otherwise.

Tyler writes: “Much of what Champ’s post is really about is power, the notion that sex (or not having sex) has the potential to control.

if you read my posts i challenge this notion in it’s current construct. …and there is a prevailing attittude from you that asserts that women are always the more oppresed when it comes to social mores. well in this case [using sex to control and as power] certainly skews better for women today.

Tyler you say: “But women as the gender needing to be “controlled” stretches back to Original sin..this notion that women are inherently corruptible.

i don’t believe women are inherently corruptible however i do believe that women/a woman is more easily influenced and persuaded physically and emotionally. [versus a man]

if i were constructing an offensive i would attack my opponents at their weakest point. we all have weak points male and female. if were going to attack a man physically/numerically/technologically stronger than me and mine, psy-ops would advise that i consider going thru his woman/women to get to him. it has worked on many ocassion. i guess you need references now huh? perhaps this is why the story of “The Original Sin” records that the fallen angel attacked mankind directly by way of Eve and not Adam.

talk black to me Ty