my parents love to impress me with their contemporary urban (heh) music knowledge. there isn’t a week that passes without them telling me about an npr piece they recently listened to about the connection between japan and wu-tang or how “someone called brown thinking or something from the roots” is featured on their new santana cd.
they then chide that they know more about “my” music than i know about theirs, and to prove their point they’ll play some obscure pat metheny track and shake their heads when i can’t tell them what album its from.
so, it wasn’t a surprise last weekend when my dad jokingly asked “how come you weren’t down with jay-z and the rocafella crew? we’d all be millionaires with bentleys now” after seeing a jay-z commercial at halftime of the steeler game last weekend. apparently, he’d just read some article somewhere about jay-z’s vast influence and empire and wanted to show off his newfound knowledge
“well, he and everyone else in his circle is like 40 and from new york city, so we’d have to mess with the space-time continuum for that to happen” i replied, adding,
“plus, i would have had to deal drugs too“.
“huh?”
“yeah. him and most of the rest of his crew sold drugs before they got into music.”
“oh, like biggie? ok. well, as long as he’s doing something good with his life now, i won’t begrudge him for being a corner boy or something when he was much younger. we all make mistakes.”
“eh. actually he wasn’t just a corner boy. from what i understand he was more barksdale than bodie, and actually made quiet a fortune doing it.”
“oh. is that right?”
“yup”
“did he ever go to prison or anything like fiddy cent?”
***yes. he actually said “fiddy“. between this and the biggie comment, i’m now convinced my parents have a subscription to the source ***
“not that i know of, at least not for a significant time.”
“well, did he at least make some songs about dangers of that lifestyle, to dissuade anyone from trying to emulate him?”
“nah. in fact he brags for maybe five albums straight about how great of a drug dealer and pimp he was. his rap empire is practically based on that”
“oh.”
(pause)
“no remorse at all?”
“a couple songs here and there but not really.”
(another pause)
“thats very interesting, champ” my dad remarks, before leaving the living room to check on his pork roast.
for those not well-versed in champsdadspeak, him pausing, saying “thats very interesting, champ” and leaving is his way of saying
“so, lemme get this straight: the person you all have anointed the king of rap was an unrepentant drug kingpin who’s made multi millions bragging about his fortune in blood money? your generation disgusts me. plus. how could you, an educator who’s lost at least 10 kids to drug violence, call this guy one of your favorite rappers?”
if he would have actually asked that question, i probably would have responded with some cliche about separating the man from the art, and i would have cited people like martin scorsese who produce violent films but are (rightly) thought of and lauded as geniuses. i probably would have also mentioned something about the kennedy’s making good out of a criminal past, that we all have demons, and how we can’t judge how truly repentant someone is…and it all would have been bullsh*t.
in hindsight, i’m glad he walked away and didn’t ask because i’ve never really thought about how stupid my answer sounds.
maybe i should start.
—the champ
my momma has had a crush on jay z ever since she saw him perform at inauguation. “that’s a baaaaaaaaaaad thang right there,” she says. but, like your father, she has a romanticized view of him. whenever she sees him now she’s like, “where is his suit at!?” and when i spread the rumor to her about him getting mad at beyonce for disagreeing with kanye her response was something like, “oh heeeeeeeeeeeeeeells no. she done married the WRONG one.” still, though, i think she has a crush on him.
@charli skipp,
“and when i spread the rumor to her…”
Spreading rumors to your momma? Hahaha!
@voiceovereason,
“Spreading rumors to your momma”
definitely should be a title of a chitlin circuit play
@The Champ,
lol
@Gem of the Ocean,
LOL. Im dyin from that one.
@The Champ,
“chitlin circuit” should be one of the words/phrases buried with the other racist/ignorant words.
@The Champ,
LOL. You’re right.
Wait… WHAT?
*confused by post*
@Thuggie Luvvie,
it reminds me of that tv show, “the wonder years.” idk. i just tried to roll with it. lol
@Thuggie Luvvie,
lol. Good and interesting drop. But without the question prompts I’m not sure what I should be doing here…
…pudding anyone?
@Me fail english?,
LOL, I know. I was Ctrl-F-ing for that dayum wrap-up question. That question leads us. We are lost without the question. The question is the Moses rod to our blog comments.
@Cheekie,
I just felt like this was meant to be the VSB existentialism post. What does it all mean. Why are we heeeeeeeeere? lol
@Me fail english?, amazing how if no question is asked, folks dont know what to do…
@Panama Jackson, vs be animal farm! lmao
@Thuggie Luvvie,
confuse deez
wait. nevermind. that sounds painful.
@The Champ,
Hmmm, I wouldn’t call him unrepentant, just not ashamed about what he did.
I mean, there are songs on every album Jay has dropped talking about how the hustling lifestyle has a whole host of problems. He’s basically admitted he was addicted to the thrill, and that he was reveling in genocide.
But, he also admits that he had a great time doing it, and isn’t sure he would do anything different in his past.
Seems like a fairly honest and normal response. I mean, I think fornication is wrong and look at the problems it caused my life, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to pretend that I didn’t enjoy it when I did it. Or that I’m positive that I would be able to resist the allure if I had a time machine. Seems like Jigga is a human being.
@Big Man,
You know what? I like this comment.
@Big Man,
“Seems like Jigga is a human being.”
He’s a camel.
@Cheekie,
*devastated lil mama face*
Ha!!! I think similar conversations are going on all over the world. My mother was quite disappointed to find out Biggie only have a couple of albums.
@Ms. Smart,
so was diddy, lol. just think how many biggie albums would have been posthumously produced if he was half as prolific as tupac?
@The Champ,
U mean as willing to live in the booth like Pac. Pac gets all the props in the world for that cuz he started ni99as on staying in the booth and knocking out tracks.
As I get older I am starting to resent or be embarrassed about a lot of the rapper/rap music that I once was a proud stan of… like I can’t reconcile my love of the grittiest of rappers with my way of thinking now. The more I try to justify those likes the more ridiculous I feel/sound… so Champ I can relate….
I feel old. “Growing up can be a pain…” (c) New Edition
@Naturally Alise,
i have the embarrassment. especially when talking to my parents about the music i like, used to like, and the general popular music artists (or so they call themselves) out these days.
having these talks with my parentals def makes me do some soul searching.
@Naturally Alise, you know, i have never had that problem. NWA is my favorite rap group of all time. period. jay is probably my favorite rapper (with a close or equaly second being Andre 3000). there is definitely no dearth of questionable (to say the least) content yet i feel no conflict within myself at what i love or my way of thinking. mostly b/c for me, they’re all able to co-exist. i think everything has context and if put in proper context its possible to still appreciate those things.
now i may not blast my NWA album as loud as i used to when i see kids around or even ever listen to it around my own kid, but the music is still as good to me now as it was then.
while there may be no real retort or way to justify to one’s parents the rapper role models, i mean, i love eazy e, but then again, i wouldnt even try to…its pretty indefensible.
so i just say, i like what i like and i do what i want, i smoke crack in the bathroom.
I thinnk the battle between old and young will continue forever b/c I find myself having the same convo’s with teens and im only 24.
Why is it that people assume that just because you are an educator that your musical styles and tastes for different things
alcoholshould stop or change?!And my pastor tried me like two weeks ago on my T.I. knowledge. Wats up with that…SMH
@MizThickaDenThick,
You…..might wanna consider changing churches…
@Lili, i don’t know…T.I.’s “no matter what” was pretty inspirational.
“what up, whats happenin’” on the other hand…not so much.
center hill, cedar ave, that’s where i be suuuuuuuucka…
@Panama Jackson,
On the contrary, “What’s up, what’s happenin’” is a song that gets my adrenaline pumping and is a great workout song. I like it for road trips too.
@MizThickaDenThick,
Why is it that people assume that just because you are an educator that your musical styles and tastes for different things alcohol should stop or change?!
lol, because maybe they should.
Did you ever think that maybe your dad walked away because he KNEW there would be no way you could justify it, and he KNEW your answer would be retarTed, so he wanted to spare you the agony of looking back on your retort with emBARE-ASSment? After all, parents know us better than we know ourselves no matter how much we try to deny it. (Yes, they knew about your secret porn stash, and the dead hooker in your trunk, but chose not to breach those subjects.
)
@RedBeanzNRice w/Poak Chops,
“(Yes, they knew about your secret porn stash, and the dead hooker in your trunk, but chose not to breach those subjects.
)” <– a real fear of my, BTW. I think she did know :-O
@Lili, my boy’s mom came across his quite extensive pr0n stash one day. i was there.
lots of awkward silence.
@Panama Jackson,
lol, my mom found my porn once…still in the vcr. she didnt say anything though, i just came home from school one day and found “baby got back 5″ sitting on my bed.
@RedBeanzNRice w/Poak Chops,
So true. When home once for break during college I took a pregnancy test. Now, mind you, I went through great lengths to hid that ish. Buying test late at night. Taking test in bathroom with the shower running. Wrapping evidence in plastic bag first and then in a sweatshirt and hiding it at the back of my dresser drawer until I was able to take it outside and toss it in the NEIGHBOR’S garbage.
A few years ago, when I said I’d never had a pregnancy scare (having forgotten all about it), my mom asked: “what about that time you were home for Christmas break?”
wth?
*the test was neg. and I’ve never had that scare again. Thank God.*
@V.E.G., And WOW. She’s psychic.
@Nicki Sunshine, i’m convinced all mommas are, they just pick their battles.
or they make you bring them the iron, smh.
@overit,
LOL. It’s true.
But my mama aint psychic she just goes through all my isht. What can I say? That’s my mama.
@overit,
yeah man. my mom knows all kinds of stuff and my mom is not the type to snoop. she’s big on privacy. but my mother has found out about things i’ve done outside the house within hours of it happening. either she’s psychic or she has connects with the best spy agency in this universe.
@overit, I think so too.. I am convinced my mama knew when I lost my virginity because she was acting really weird… thing is, I was an adult! lol
@Nicki Sunshine,
No, she’s not psychic – she’s MAMA! Recogize.
@RedBeanzNRice w/Poak Chops, You make me want a poke chop sammich so baaaaaaaad
@RedBeanzNRice w/Poak Chops,
lol@ “poak chops”
@RedBeanzNRice w/Poak Chops,
Did you ever think that maybe your dad walked away because he KNEW there would be no way you could justify it
oh, he definitely knew. they have an annoying tendency to ask me questions they already know i have no answer to.
@The Champ,
“they have an annoying tendency to ask me questions they already know i have no answer to.”
Of course they do. They’re PARENTS, lol. When yours get old enough, you’ll do the same damn thang, lol. Gotta love the cycle.
My bougie mother catches “pieces” of pop culture to throw at her kids as signs that the generations after hers are going to hell in a hand basket:
She: “Oprah had on the Whitney Houston. I don’t know why you girls put up with mess from men. And why is Kanye West being so disrespectful? That’s how Tupac got shot, you know.”
Me: “Um, a lot of women would not have put up with the Bobby like the Whitney did. Tupac did not get shot on stage at the MTV awards.”
She: “No but he was dishing folks.”
Me: “You mean dissing?”
She: “You know what I mean. Why doesn’t Beyonce just come out and admit she’s married to that Jay boy? You girls have so many advantages and don’t know what to do with them. You saw Mariah married that young boy. They call that a cougar. That Wayne rapper from New Orleans dates older women too.”
Me: “Mom, what have you been watching besides Oprah?”
She: ” The View.”
Me… defeated. If The View is her “pop culture snapshot” I can’t argue with Whoopi/Barbra logic.
@OneChele,
LMAOOOO @ DEFEATED!
@OneChele,
lol @ “the whitney houston.” why am i picturing your momma as that mean, rich lady that played monica’s mom on that one episode of girlfriends? lol
@OneChele,
The image of this entire exchange has me cackling.
@OneChele,
lol, this is classic
@OneChele,
“She: “Oprah had on the Whitney Houston. I don’t know why you girls put up with mess from men. And why is Kanye West being so disrespectful? That’s how Tupac got shot, you know.””
LMFAO…I have this lovely image of Taylor Swift, gangsta edition.
And I’m *dying* @ “dishing” instead of “dissing”. Like Kanye is serving shrimp platters to folks? *cracking up*
I love mothers.
@Cheekie,
haha. And I love how Chele’s mama is the only person in the free world to know exactly hos Pac got shot (besides Suge Knight…I keed!)
@Me fail english?,
HAHA! Right! The “you know” at the end is art. So englightened, that Mama OneChele. This kinda stuff is why I love mothers. No one can deliver a line like a mama.
@Cheekie,
This kinda stuff is why I love mothers
i didnt know you were a lesbian.
@The Champ,
I knew you would go there. lol
You still don’t know, apparently…
Ummm Okay? I just wanna say I refuse to feel guilty I like him just like I love sex filled blues and r&b and violent movies.
I don’t see how rap is any different from other artistic mediums.
I likes it from I’m feelin it to daddy go hard
And again I am not ashamed nor do need to psycho analyze it.
@shay-d-lady, I second everything u just said.
@Nicki Sunshine,
Third. All those arguments Champ made make sense to me simply on the grounds that they’re acceptable in any other artistic medium.
@shay-d-lady, cuz you a 5 star chick.
ps- i know i been mia, but where is bluntblazer? has he been d*stroyed aka d*pained? mama NOOOoooooooo!
@overit,
dead. dead. and… dead.
@Gem of the Ocean, lmao, *in bscott voice* i had to love muffin, i had to!
@overit,
Oh sh*t, GREAT question. And WHO will we call to search for him. Yall know BB hates all versions of the po-po’s.
@overit,
LOL! Not D*stroyed aka D*pained! D*Stroy is actually my friend and he put me on to VSB. He’s doing his grown man thing. Good career, married, beautiful little girl, house on Long Island. I don’t think he has much time to focus on anything else. I can’t wait to tell him he’s missed. Unless he’s lurking…
@voiceovereason,
wow. you’ve never mentioned this before.
overit has been e-salking him for many many months now.
@voiceovereason, YOU KNOW D*STROY! Tell him i said hi! *waving*
@shay-d-lady, i def am not ashamed, i love, rep and promote hip hop all day, i’m just sayin..
i mean, did harriet ask massa why he was rude, or did she ask hester and abby (antebellum names are the ish) why they were uncle toms? when i’m trying to fix home, i’m not worried about what other houses are doing. i’m not that post racial yet, lol.
at the end of the day, it comes down to the home lessons, but where there is no home, there is no lesson, only solja boi thanking slavery.
@overit, at the end of the day, it comes down to the home lessons, but where there is no home, there is no lesson, only solja boi thanking slavery.
at the end of the day there are children being raised by pop culture PERIOD .. ..you cant pick one and make it the cause and the cure is all I am saying…..
@shay_d_lady, dang, can a sista expect more from her people?! overit don’t care about tila tequila! lol.
@overit, you can definitely expect more from your people. but you also h have to realize that being a “star” doesnt mean you’re bright. it means the camera is on you. i’m sure if we interviewed the entire black populace, we’d get more than enough head turning, wtf moments from regular ole everyday joes.
hell, in COLLEGE, i had a dude in one of my econ classes inform the rest of us, mid-lecture, that he as glad slavery happened b/c he didnt want to grow up in africa and have to rock a loincloth.
this ninja has a degree now.
@overit,
I feel ya on this. Why not fight the battles you can see and know how to fight? Plus, I’d say some of these influences impact our kids more than the others.
@shay-d-lady, yeah, i’m with you. i love my sh*t and will continue to do so. though a lot of it is indefensible on a societal level, the fact is, there seems to be an extremely bright light shining on hiphop and its foils.
hell, just the other day, some white cat in VA manson’d his family or something adn the story read, “aspiring rapper kills xomebody”
now, most stories stick wtih facts. how come when a dude is an aspiring rapper it gets in there. Aspiring carpenters dont’ get shoutouts. aspiring presidents dont get no love during crime sprees.
i’m guessing lee malvo wanted to be something other than the dc sniper but his dreams got no love. but noooooo, aspiring rappers get beaucoup press.
they didnt even mention what he really does…which is probably work at mcdonald’s with calvin. nttawwt.
@Panama Jackson,
becuz “aspiring rapper” is code for “n*gger” or (if they’re 2520) “n*gger lover”.
aspiring rapper is another term to be thrown 6ft under…
@Gem of the Ocean,
lol, i dont think anyone ever is an aspiring rapper. its like being pregnant, you’re either a rapper, or not…just a cat at whole foods who raps in his spare time
Jay-Z is JAY-Z!
everyone is remorseful.. as long as he admits his wrongs then its fine with me… its not like he continued to EMULATE the lifestyle like the way rappers do now.. he was subtle & cool about it.. his best album describing the lifestyle was & will always be REASONABLE DOUBT! HANDS FUDGING DOWN! The way he Talked about the PRO’S & CONS was just smooth.. the way he delivered the Pro’s of hustling “Cashmere Thoughts” and “Dead Presidents II” and Cons “D’evils” and “Regrets”..
[I'm a closet Jay-z/S. Carter(03{Black Album}) fan]
i’m only 20 & loathe the way rappers talk about Hustling.. & the way they continue to live recklessly.. Like Athletes too, getting into trouble *SMH*
Among the rappers i will never like is & will be TI, Rick Ross & some Lame others..
i like Hip-Hop tho.. but JAZZ is my 1st LOVE!
@h3avensent08, “his best album describing the lifestyle was & will always be REASONABLE DOUBT! HANDS FUDGING DOWN! ”
I think it’s his best album…. PERIOD.
@h3avensent08,
i like Hip-Hop tho.. but JAZZ is my 1st LOVE!
lol, i can see that. your comment reads like a jazz performance
great post champ. i get into this debate with a co-worker all.the.time. his position is that no matter how large a platform someone has, no matter how far their influence goes, they should not be held accountable for what they do or say.
i firmly disagree. now, i don’t think dumba**ses who cite eminem as the reason they tied their mama up count, but for young black youth to be bombarded with images of pimps and drug dealers, as papa champ said, with NO remorse, as role models is unacceptable. same goes for our young girls. its societal warfare if you ask me.
thinking about this makes me sad, especially because most of us having this convo right now are not the victims of (most) mainstream hip hop.
in short, the corporate pimp hand is way strong.
@overit, and am i the only person who heard th “f*ck jay z” from *’ether’ throughout this post?
just me? ok.
*nas won.
@overit, please dont make me de e-friend your a$$ for these outlandish comments….
@shay_d_lady, you can never de-friend me, ever!
@overit, thinking about this makes me sad, especially because most of us having this convo right now are not the victims of (most) mainstream hip hop.
hip hop is not the cause of societal ills
its an effect, or symptom
but the problems running rampant in our society, specifically “the inner city” will not disappear if rap/hip hop does. They existed well before rap was a mainstream art form. While rap does play a role in the perpetuation, the things that are glorified in rap were first learned in the streets and in the home and then put on wax. However lets be real about the expectation of artists..they seem to be a little different when it comes to rappers as opposed to other genres…..
Hell aint nobody make teddy p and barry white apologize for teen pregnancy or the spread of std’s through unprotected s.e.x
*kanye shrug* Im just sayin
@shay_d_lady, they seem to be a little different when it comes to rappers as opposed to other genres…..
i feel you, but frankly, i don’t care about other artists. yeah we should wanna heal the world and ish, but given the systematic way blacks have been targeted throughout history, i think we are not far removed from jim crown and colonization, hell katrina, to be as complacent as we are. if ever a community had to remain vigilant, its ours. obviously there’s free will and ish, and nobody is obligated. it doesnt mean i am not shocked at the number of celebs of color who do the bidding of so many others, but not their own. that’s my $0.02.
why the H-E double hockey sticks am i awake at this hour discussing the effects of the color line? riddle me this, gentle readers.
@overit, *crow not crown.
@shay_d_lady,
“hip hop is not the cause of societal ills
its an effect, or symptom”
It’s both. At the start of their careers, some rappers will talk about what they know: the hood. And I get that. There is nothing more compelling than a true story told in first person. But as they make it big, a lot of artists either keep talking about the hood they left years ago and are disconnected from OR they talk about money and baggin’ groupies.
Young kids often don’t realize the music business is that…a business. They don’t realize that there is no pay day in a song that reflects on all the bad decisions an artist made in their youth.
@V.E.G., Young kids often don’t realize the music business is that…a business. They don’t realize that there is no pay day in a song that reflects on all the bad decisions an artist made in their youth.
most kids do realize its a business, which is why “rapper” is the chosen profession for a lot of kids ….
so while I get that the industry fuels the get rich quick by any means mentality, so does celebrity in general. So again, I am not going to hold rap anymore accountable than anything else, and the mentality existed BEFORE and the music is a reflection of that.
I also say too, that a lot of these kids hear the rap but the real life examples in their families and neighborhoods and parents that are either not present or that reinforce the street mentality which is the difference between children and people who are able to look at the music as entertainment and those that take it as a literal blueprint for life. Those kids that cant tell the difference? are also affected by the tv shows, the movies, the video games that promote glorify that life style as well……
@V.E.G., It’s both. At the start of their careers, some rappers will talk about what they know: the hood. And I get that. There is nothing more compelling than a true story told in first person. But as they make it big, a lot of artists either keep talking about the hood they left years ago and are disconnected from OR they talk about money and baggin’ groupies.
i am positive that in corporate meetings rooms there is the same convo re: a rapper wanting to talk about some different ish, and someone from marketing explaining how the shit works. they are not in control and are slaves to the money, its a reality-and a sad one. there’s a price to pay when you go from trife life to lavish, and its often your common sense and morality. at the end of the day, it may not take a village, but as a parent you go up against a lot trying to fight the adverse effects pop culture, esp ours, has on our youth. i say ours because they could give a damn about hollywood overseas, its americans who are convinced perez hilton has the gospel.
JTTW!
@overit, i am positive that in corporate meetings rooms there is the same convo re: a rapper wanting to talk about some different ish, and someone from marketing explaining how the shit works. they are not in control and are slaves to the money, its a reality-and a sad one.
while i don’t disagree completely, i think that rappesr that want to talk about different sh*t basically do…they just don’t sell. but they weren’t going to sell in the first place. most rappers follow the money (if thats why they’re doing it). some with huge mainstream success try other things, like ludacris for example, but the fact is, they aint dumb either. it doesnt take a corporate exec to let them know they need dough so they do what makes sense to make hits and stay on teh radio.
the other thing is, i dont know if the stranglehold is on like it used to be anyway with the rise of independents. i think artists are largely doing what the f*ck they want nowadays. folsk dont even need labels anymore. unless you’re an ll cool j or something but thats only for distribution so you can reach as many folks as possible.
i’m faily certain that nobody is holding a boot down on tehse cats necks right now like, “no, we need more violence, more gun talk” my guess is that they’re pretty prepared to oblige anyway.
@shay_d_lady,
“Hell aint nobody make teddy p and barry white apologize for teen pregnancy or the spread of std’s through unprotected s.e.x”
In defense to Teddy P. and Barry White, started in a time when teens could and would get married so the situation was different. Teens have always gotten pregnant it is just that society has changed. Also STDs weren’t as prevalent in their time; besides their job was to get you into bed, what you did when you got there was on you. teddy wasn’t going to tell you to put on a condom anymore then he was going to tell you what position to try.
I DO, however, blame R. Kelly for teen pregnancy simply because he has ‘deflowered’ some teens in his day and thus has set a bad example.
@Omar, In defense to Teddy P. and Barry White, started in a time when teens could and would get married so the situation was different.
i think you’re looking for the term “forced” to get married. a lot of those marriages were shotgun.
@Panama Jackson, “i think you’re looking for the term “forced” to get married.”
Yeah, but it was more so the guy that was forced than the girl and it may have been messy but it helped reduce the amount kids running around with no parents or just one parent which is the main problem behind teenage pregnancy.
@shay_d_lady,
However lets be real about the expectation of artists..they seem to be a little different when it comes to rappers as opposed to other genres…..
Hell aint nobody make teddy p and barry white apologize for teen pregnancy or the spread of std’s through unprotected s.e.x
*kanye shrug* Im just sayin
rap gets a bad rap because its the only musical genre where songs/artists detailing, reporting about, or just outright promoting violence, misogyny, and death are typically your most prominent. comparing love songs with something from the dipset or mobb deep is like comparing apples to hand grenades.
also, while i agree that all societal ills won’t just magically disappear if murder rap did, because our community is in a unique position, i think the people who have a prominent voice have a unique responsibility.
@overit,
etwin, you know i feel you on everything you’ve said throughout this thread.
i feel this way about rappers (becuz that is who our young black children often want to emulate) and ATHLETES. i could go on and on about this but i wont.
essentially, i think it’s up to the community (read: black folk) to hold each other accountable and provide other role models for our kids to see so that positive images can be ingrained in young kids minds. so many parents OBVIOUSLY aren’t raising their children well or with any level of decent morals or quality of life, so it’s up to the rest of us to pick up the slack. and if we dont want these youngins to be raised on the image of the poor lives rappers discuss in their music of that athletes show day to day (*smh* @ the whole mcnair sitch) then we gotta start steppin up and puttin more out there to see.
@Gem of the Ocean, this is one of those statements that’s right, but only b/c it has no way to be wrong.
yay.
@Panama Jackson,
“yay” is 62 percent gay
okay.. I am back
I just dont get it. Jay-z is a rapper. He makes songs and I am not saying he doesnt need to have accountability but why do rappers or rap have to have MORE accountability than any one or any thing else? why do I have to be ashamed about listening to jay z but not watching the wire?
we all grow up and the things I liked and listened to at 20 are different now at 30. I dont have to be ashamed or apologize for it, thats where I was at. At 20 I was also working in a strip club bar, nickel and dime hustling and conning my teachers into letting me do extra work to avoid probation. The music I listened to reflected my mentality at that point. Now I have matured and have different priorities and my choices reflect that.
On Jay specifically.
To me Jay’s music has often times mirrored my journey into adult hood…Laugh if you want to but shyt.. there have been many a day when I have felt like mofo’s was trying to bring me under.. or my past life was coming back to haunt me and I had to toss in ” come and get me” or “regrets”
I have partied to “give it to me” and “big pimpin” and “encore” Ive looked back and reflected over “moment of clarity”.
HIs music does what I think all good music should do, which is makes you see his point of view, it touches you in some way. Whether its by making you hit the floor or spend hours discussing and dissecting his lyrics, determining whats the best lyric, the best album, or his best song. Thats what his job is as a musician.
yeah you can knock the drug dealing but the rap hustle? Nah son
@shay_d_lady,
“why do rappers or rap have to have MORE accountability than any one or any thing else? why do I have to be ashamed about listening to jay z but not watching the wire?”
I dont think anyone should be ashamed. But I think what Champ’s saying is worthy of deep discussion, moreso where it concerns rappers than other artistic media/genres for the following reasons:
Unlike everyone else, rappers purposely blur the lines between art and life. In fact, some rappers actually try to mimic the antisocial behavior in their lyrics. If Martin Scorcese alluded to actually killing ppl, or Roman Polanski made films about sexing underage girls their work would be under fire as well. Whether your name is Bob Marley, John Lennon or Lil Boosie when your art begins to reflect your lifestyle you can no longer make comparisons to Arnold Schwarzenegger. You’ve purposely crafted your public image to align with your lyrics and we can no longer accept the “it’s just fantasy!” argument.
If you wanna be given artistic license to talk about any subject without it reflecting poorly on your character as a person, stay out of the Worldstar beef, quit poppin mess on the radio, dont have your photograph taken hangin out with real life drug dealers, stop buyin silencers in the Wal-Mart parking lot, etc.
@Me fail english?,
lol @ “stop buyin silencers in the Wal-Mart parking lot”
@Me fail english?, i actually do agree with you on that last part. T.I. is a perfect illustration of art imitating life and hip-hop culture.
that line wasn’t even blurred. that line didnt exist.
@Me fail english?, I agree, and this also goes back to the Teddy Pendergrass/Barry White example upthread…they don’t have to be held accountable for their music because they’re not talking about crimes for one. Tryna love down your lady isn’t a felony, last time I checked.
I wrote about this over on SGPL about how these idiots swear they must sell the story of being excellent super criminals who happened to rap. And it takes two to tango, because the fans seemingly had a bottomless appetite for it too.
That’s why rap is effed up and that’s why rap is under the microscope so much.
@shay_d_lady,
“why do I have to be ashamed about listening to jay z but not watching the wire?”
The Wire was an expose on social ills and the interplay between politics and people’s lives in poorer communities. There wasn’t much of a glorification of anybody, cops, drug dealers, politicians, the press, nobody (well maybe gay hood assassins but that was different).
There are probably hip hop albums that are comparable with The Wire but probably not a Jay-Z album.
@Omar,
lol@ gay hood assassins (up until he got popped by a 4-footer)
I actually think Jay is a pretty apt comparison. I really feel like Jay has made himself and other drug dealers look like fcuk-ups (“You Must Love Me”, “Regrets”, “Fallin”, “D’Evils”, “Allure”) just as much as he’s taken to blaming gov’t, school systems, etc (too many songs/lyrics to give examples).
He doesnt do it as deftly or in as much detail as “The Wire” but he’s more well-rounded than ppl give him credit for.
@Me fail english?, i agree jay is more well rounded than people give him credit for, my rants are more an indictment on the genre in general.
@Omar,
lmao @ “well maybe gay hood assassins but that was different”
you are killin me today
@Omar, I guess I dont understand what you mean by glorify? The wire is like a video for most drug/street life videos… like how is it different? how and why do you feel its a commentary? it tells the story of the streets from all angles….So if jay z raps from Stringer’s fine a$$ point of view… and Common raps from the point of view as the teacher.. and Mos and talib rap about viewing the damage from thier windows why cant rap as a whole be looked at as a commentary…and even with that you cant tell me that prior to stringer’s death there wasnt some kid out there trying to deal dope and wear business suits cause thats what he saw on t.v. I dont hold the wire or hbo accountable though because at the end of the day, if there was no t.v. we would still have the same problems.
again I am not denying the negative influence I am saying if you gone be real about the damage done then be real about the culprits….its like saying that we need to ban kool filter kings in the soft pack instead of smoking in general…..
@shay_d_lady, “I guess I dont understand what you mean by glorify?”
Because he talks about how cool he is as a function of how good of a drug dealer he was, how much money he has from selling drugs and every now and again how hard he was. I’m not condemning Jay and I am a fan but I’ll call a spade a spade. He was and is willing to say and do questionable stuff to get paid, he says so repeatedly.
“And I do it twice, ain’t no sense in me
lyin as if, I am a different man” – Jay-Z
“The wire is like a video for most drug/street life videos… like how is it different? ”
The Wire may at times look like the “C.R.E.A.M.” video but it doesn’t really look like the “Can’t knock the Hustle” video.
“rap as a whole be looked at as a commentary”
I’m not condemning rap and I don’t think it is inherently bad (or good for that matter) in it’s effects on other people, it’s like water when you drink it, it’s good when you drown in it, it’s not. But to answer your question I think commentaries and exposes have a certain direction. Rap is free flowing expression without a defined direction, I think the people you mentioned are a reflection of the different personalities that exist in our communities but there is no defined direction it is really all over the place and again that is not a bad thing.
@shay_d_lady,
“kool filter kings in the soft pack ”
LOL! Hood isht!
@shay_d_lady, I am saying if you gone be real about the damage done then be real about the culprits….its like saying that we need to ban kool filter kings in the soft pack instead of smoking in general…..
I totally agree. The discussion around rap is too simplistic. Rap is not to blame for the issues plaguing our communities. If we really want to save black youth and our communities, then we need to address the conditions described in rap music—poverty, violence, misogyny, homophobia, despair, etc. Boycotting rap music is not gonna make those things disappear.
While I understand the accusation in the behavior of Champ’s father, I’m not gonna stop listening to the radio because I work with young girls. It’s our responsibility to help youth understand the difference between real life and entertainment–specifically, consequences. It’s also our responsibility to help them determine how to engage with the music instead of letting the music run their lives. When I feel a certain way, I may put on a certain track and go to a certain club dressed in a certain skirt, but that doesn’t mean I have to be that persona or want to be seen as that persona 24/7. We all have those “I-wish-a-ninja-would” days but that doesn’t mean we have to do a drive-by cuz the rapper describes one. Music in general helps us express feelings but it doesn’t dictate our actions.
@Omar,
“(well maybe gay hood assassins but that was different).”
LOL! Indeed.*
*In honor of the aforementioned gay hood assassin who loved to use this particular word…I had to say it.
and also I dont think he boasts about selling drugs.. I think he boasts overall about his HUSTLE and how his hustle afforded him this luxurious lifestyle whether it be while selling drugs or selling himself in board rooms…
to each his own but thats always what I thought about it
@shay_d_lady, I agree…. When I first read the statement about him boasting about specifically selling drugs, I couldn’t think of a single song were he said he was the king of crack or whatever the kids are saying now-days.
Or call it me not being able to read between the lines.
@Nicki Sunshine,
“I couldn’t think of a single song were he said he was the king of crack ”
…eh
“I used to move snowflakes by the O-Z
I guess even back then you can call me
CEO of the R-O-C, Hov!” – PSA
…but I do agree with Shay_d_lady.
The thing about Hov is that if you listen to his lyrics throughout the years, you’ve noticed his maturity, his remorse and his self realization of his influence on so many people. You also can tell how he is trying to use that influence that he has to right some of the very wrongs he perpetuated in his songs (hey, that rhymed). He basically grew up…
@Nicki Sunshine,
“I couldn’t think of a single song were he said he was the king of crack or whatever the kids are saying now-days.”
“as far as street guys we was dealin’ crack/
that’s just how the game goes I don’t owe nobody jack”
a line from “what we talkin about”, the first song on “the blueprint 3″
@shay_d_lady, this ITA with, I think its the IT factor that certain something, a je ne sais quoi…mixed with the intellect and level of talent..he has been blessed in this regard no doubt.
@shay_d_lady,
I agree. And moreover, I dont think he’s expressed “no remorse” save a few songs here and there. I actually think the downsides to hustling are ever-present. From shooting his brother over a ring, to embarrassing his mother by selling drugs, to becoming more of a burden to his mom by getting in trouble when he started out thinking he could “ease the load” he’s been honest about the entire emotional journey.
Let’s be real, I never met a remorseful drug dealer who felt bad about actually selling the drugs. Even the old, decrepit ones that are in jail or out of jail sleeping on their sisters’ couches. It would take away from his artistic credibility (not to be confused with street credibility) if he made an insincere, preachy, repentant album.
@Me fail english?, yeah I think he has been pretty honest about his journey thus far, kinda transparent to a point therefore his art has much integrity, whether we agree with all his choices or not….there I was time when I wasn’t listening to Jay as much cause of the womanizing etc..this older more mature Jay, artistically speaking, I couldn’t love more……
@OrangeStar616,
Word. I’m not sure if he’s atoning for the past, but if I wanted atonement I’d go to church. We gotta get black kids out of this thinking that if you grew up in the hood, hip hop will be the main source for your life lessons, morality, spirituality, etc. You have other outlets available. Use them.
@Me fail english?, that’s all i been tryna tell errybody.
@shay_d_lady, though i see your point…
Jay on “Can I Live” uttered these great, yet ominous words:
“…a brotha got admire me from four fiends away…”
That’s kind of boasting.
@Panama Jackson,
I said he was boastful of his hustle.
in that line they were admiring his street hustle…
Lol! (i’m hearing the eff jay z too). Seriously though, jay’s new album is the bees freakin knees! And I don’t even like rap- real rap anyway. Champ’s pop is right though. We should be ashamed of who we glorify but eh, what are ya gonna do? We boycott, bury the n-word, start wearing bowties and eating bean pies and at the end of the day, Jay’s grown and sexy (as vsb has pointed out numerous times) still was a bigger movement than all of the above combined. Wanna make a difference, become an even bigger rapper than jay for the sole purpose of changing the world.
@ashley g,
“Seriously though, jay’s new album is the bees freakin knees! And I don’t even like rap- real rap anyway”
I’m just going to walk away.
@miss t-lee, lmao. you gotta ration the throat punches, remain recession proof!
@overit,
*snickering* You are hilarious girl.
I don’t even fight that fight anymore, miss t-lee, because rap’s been outta control forever…it is now whatever any random ninja feels like it is.
@Stuff Ghetto People Like,
This is true.
@ashley g, i’m not sure i agree, maybe cause i don’t think the new album is the beesknees, lol.
don’t get me wrong people, i heart jay and his music, but that doesn’t mean i don’t see how toxic some of the music we listen to really is, its all good to work out, 2 step and choreograph too, but damn if it aint saying a cotdamn thing.
and only in america would someone suggest becoming the biggest rapper to change the world, lmao. RIP ghandi!
@overit,
topics jay-z discusses on bp3:
1. not talking about people / wondering why people are talking about him
2. not doing things anymore
3. being better than all those other rappers
did i miss anything?
@Chasdizz, nope, just the “ahhh” noise he has begun making in the background, lol.
@Chasdizz,
Hate, hate, hate ooonnnn!(c) miss t-lee
Venus vs. Mars
So Ambitious
Empire State of Mind
…are a few that come to mind as songs that cover more than your three topics. That’s like saying all the Beatles talked about was girls, hippie isht and whatever “Help!” was about.
I could be biased though. I have the theme song to “Jem” on iPod. He could rap about syrup sammiches and I’d bump it if it sounded good.
@Me fail english?,
He-heee!!!!! I’m loving my shout out…
@overit, don’t get me wrong people, i heart jay and his music, but that doesn’t mean i don’t see how toxic some of the music we listen to really is, its all good to work out, 2 step and choreograph too, but damn if it aint saying a cotdamn thing.
and only in america would someone suggest becoming the biggest rapper to change the world, lmao. RIP ghandi!
I gotta object to t his, with enough money and power you can change a lot of things, so if he chooses to rap and bring a spotlight on what happens in the hood and then use the money to give back and provide a better way for those around us, jobs and a positive story then he can make a change.. not saying that Jay has done this but lets be real, Jay’s story is a rags to riches joint. He is a corner dude that came up and is now a power player.
its like saying a reformed crack head does no good by telling their story of drug abuse and how they overcame…
@shay_d_lady, i respect jay, io really do! i don’t think i’m expressing myself as well as i could, i’m dipping out.
hear hear jay z!
hollla!
@shay_d_lady, “I gotta object to t his, with enough money and power you can change a lot of things, so if he chooses to rap and bring a spotlight on what happens in the hood and then use the money to give back and provide a better way for those around us, jobs and a positive story then he can make a change..”
I have to re-object to this, unless you are Bill Gates most people don’t have the money to make that type of difference, even rappers, actors and athletes. It has always been more effective to mobilize people in different places to change their own situation than for a person or small group of people attempting to provide an enormous amount of charity, which is why providing a message is important.
Also in terms of spotlighting what goes on in the hood, aside from making some of it look cool, people have always known what goes on in the hood, they just don’t care…
@Omar, I have to re-object to this, unless you are Bill Gates most people don’t have the money to make that type of difference, even rappers, actors and athletes..
This is just not true. When people change their thinking they can make any difference they really want to make. Not saying the road would be easy… but if all those athletes, moguls and the such decided to put in the concerted (sp?), and committed effort to see some changes made in our communities it WOULD happen. There is no doubt about it in my mind.
@overit, and only in america would someone suggest becoming the biggest rapper to change the world, lmao. RIP ghandi!
though i see what you’re getting at, i think its totally legit in this case. we place celebs on higher pedestal than anybody else. when something goes down, they bring in celebs to bring awareness. re: alicia keys, bono, even Jay takign water to Africa or something…like…sometimes the best position you can put yourself in is one of celebrity…cuz then at least people listen.
hell, thats the reason i wantedto become famous…so then i could work on my public policy initiatives.
@Panama Jackson,
“Jay takign water to Africa or something”
Ive heard the words ‘Jay-Z’, ‘water’, and ‘Africa’ put together in many sentences. But I still have no idea exactly what Jay was doing with water in Africa????
@Me fail english?,
he did call himself a manimal.
@ashley g, bury the n-word, start wearing bowties and eating bean pies and at the end of the day…
also, how do you put wearing bowties and eating bean pies, which were cosmetic products of a larger movement, to burying the n-word, prob one of the dumbest things to take place in our century? those 2 examples are 2 different time periods and don’t hold the same weight, imo.
@ashley g,
welcome and sh*t (i think)
i will say i’ve seen jay z grow and mature as a person and artist a lot more than some of these “conscious” rappers. i think he was very much a product of his environment, and as he was exposed to more, his music and efforts reflected it.
i still think he did a poor job of leading the blind. working with some of the kids i do, you would be shocked how literally they take a lot of this music, shocked.
@overit, i still think he did a poor job of leading the blind. working with some of the kids i do, you would be shocked how literally they take a lot of this music, shocked.
no I wouldnt, but then I blame this on the fact that there is no one else there to provide a filter…..
@shay_d_lady, that’s exactly my point! at the very least, should it not be considered a conflict of interest knowing that you are all some kids got?
note i say *should*, i know the words “brother” and “keeper” are never used in succession anymore.
@overit, I am just saying you cant fault rap alone….which is what everybody seems to be doing…..
@overit,
But to that I’d say. If Jay-Z is all a kid’s got (in the way of a mentor) they’ve got bigger problems than his coke dealer raps. Let’s say Jay starts rhyming about kids going to school to become a lawyer. I bet the kid would still be a fan. But there’s always gonna be a rebel figure that bucks the system and attracts kids too. Jay can preach peace all he wants to. That’s not gonna stop Lil Wayne and Young Money from saying some “subversive” bad boy type stuff that gets into the kids’ heads too.
I feel what you’re saying, but the Jay example is whats throwing me off. I think he’s doing more right than wrong as an artist/role model.
@Me fail english?,
“If Jay-Z is all a kid’s got (in the way of a mentor) they’ve got bigger problems than his coke dealer raps.”
*head nod*
@Me fail english?, I feel what you’re saying, but the Jay example is whats throwing me off. I think he’s doing more right than wrong as an artist/role model
exactly.. like if this thread was about Plies? I might feel slightly different
@overit, honestly, i think today’s kids couldn’t care less about jay z. they’re not paying attention to his old azz. they’re listening to the soulja bois and lil waynes of the world. pretty much semi-ridiculous nebulous rap with no point. thats how folks like dj webstar can actually have a “hit”. they listen to lil wayne’s random talk sometimes, but today’s rap ain’t so much about words as it is the lifestyle. i dont think they want to sell drugs b/c of lil wayne or soulja boi…they want to sell drugs b/c thats with Black in their neighborhood is doing. teh rap lifestyle is just the ends they want to achieve, i dont even think they’re paying attention to the words anymore – unless lil wayne says them.
@Panama Jackson, i feel like we’re all saying the same thing in different ways.
i hear you, and i agree.
i believe that children are the future.
One thing that makes this argument so hard is that it’s Jay. If only your dad had inquired about Gucci Mane (although I am a self admitted fan), not sure there would even be a post.
Pops is right though. I love to play devils advocate,but can’t think of a single counter.
While people like Ludacris and Snoop have been publically roasted for their content, Jay remains untouched. Is it that we are willing to let drug sales go, but nothing else.
This one is gonna have me turning off the Blueprint 3 for the rest if the day.
@Single Black Male, ehhh.. come on now thats a stretch.. one luda and snoop came undefire by people outside the community. Two Bill O reilly has targeted many rappers but called for a boycott of pepsi and actually got pepsi to drop him which is why the luda thing is such common knowledge.. also at that time I cant think of any other rapper that had a mainstream endorsement at that time so luda was chosen more for because of the endorsement than his rhymes.
Snoop was on trial for murder so his lyrics came under fire because of the trial which has happened to ALL rappers involved in court cases Snoop was just one of the first rappers so his case did recieve more press…..
@Single Black Male, GUCCI!!!
@Single Black Male,
lol, if my dad started asking me about gucci mane i’d probably try to cancel their cable subscription
Wow Champ, did you have to be such a wet blanket with your dad? I can imagine 16 years ago a conversation going like this:
Champ’s Dad (from now on, CDad): Hey Champ, we should talk about sex seeing as I know more about it than you.
Champ (from now on, CSon): Sure we can talk dad. . . sure.
CDad: Sex is a beautiful thing, but. . .
CSon: But the white man used it to subjugate our people.
CDad: No son, anyway, while I know at this young age, it can be hard to control. . .
CSon: Those bitches. I gotta keep my pimp hand strong. Word up pops.
CDad: Actually, I think you should respect these women and prote
CSon: Let me stop you there dad, I’mma let you finish in a minute but Beyonce had the best video of all time!
CDad: That’s very interesting Champ.
@kamakula, LMAO
@kamakula,
LMAO! Thanks for this morning laugh, kamakula!
@kamakula,
I gotta say I’m loving all the parodies of The Great Kanye Interruption feat. Kanye Shrugging (“Thanks, Obama, Imma let you finish but Canada had the best healthcare of all time” is my current favorite) at the moment and your comment is no exception. *giggle*
@kamakula,
lol, this was funny.
btw, i didnt intend on being a wet blanket. the convo just went a certain direction so quickly that i didnt realize what happened until a couple days later
Since I don’t listen to rap, I don’t have a horse in this race so…carry on good people.
@Smiley Face, what do you happen to listen to?
This sounds like a few convos I’ve had with my Dad over the years.
We mostly just talk about sports or politics now…lol He hasn’t liked any rap since Public Enemy.
*headed off to listen to “Allure”
@miss t-lee,
lol. THAT’S what I was hearing while reading these comments.
haha. Cocaine is a helluva drug
@Me fail english?,
One of my favorite Jay cuts…that one and “Guess Who’s Back?” w/Scarface…
@miss t-lee,
Co-sign. I have many Jay fav’s though. If you keep this type of talk up, I may be headed to Austin (wink)
AYE! AYE!
Bond.
@BlkBond,
*snickering*
“Wasted” is getting ridiculous airplay…I can’t help but laugh when I hear it.
@miss t-lee,
lol. Though I don’t “do it buck naked”, I am not ashamed of my love for “Wasted”.
“Headed off to listen to “Allure””
Great example…
I solemly swear to change my approach, stop shaving coke, stay away from ho3s, put down the toast cause i be doin’ the most…oh no! but everytime I felt that was that…they call me right back…they call me right back…man, they call me right back… oh no!
This song really is Carlito’s Way.
@AkShone,
Yep…
@AkShone,
good point
@miss t-lee, coincidentally, i popped in the Black album this morning since i’ve been arguing with folks about BP3 lately and The Black Album is one of my favorites.
only songs i dont care for, “change clothes”, “justify my thug”, and “allure.”
for some reason, allure just never resonated with me. actually thats not true, i just dont like the beat.
@Panama Jackson,
LMAO!!! On “Allure”
While I’ll admit the beat is only okay,it worked for the song. Since it’s more introspective, I appreciate the understated beat. I’m a sucker for some lyrical content.
I was feeling the lyrics something serious. Not even from a drug dealer’s perspective, just from the mindframe that there’s plenty of things that you’ve let go in your past, but they are always beckoning you to come back and the inner conflict that ensues.
“Change Clothes” that ish was wack from jump…always got skipped over, even when on the radio and “Justify My Thug” was pure album filler.
@miss t-lee,
I dont know ANYONE who actually LIKED Change Clothes. There were those who tolerated it and those who didnt.
@Me fail english?,
LMFAO @ “tolerated it”. That is my exact sentiment on that song. It was very “meh”. I would sing along to it with this face: O_O
And girl I promise you, no substitute.
@Me fail english?,
most of my canadian buddies seem to like that song.
@Me fail english?,
I’m sure even Pharrell & Chad were like…”this isn’t our best work…but who cares, eff it”…and a song was born.
My folks don’t listen to hip hop that I know of LOL, but my moms does listen to some Chuck LOL and she knows who Jay z is kinda LOL
For my Dad I think the genre is jive irrelavent, his music tastes are all old school, Marvin, Al Green etc……
I did turn my mom on to Esthero/Trip Hop, which has been a fav of mine for the last 12 years + or so
@OrangeStar616,
i forgot to mention that my parents also put me on to linkin park a few years ago after watching them on snl
I’ve never been embarrassed at all about my musical tastes no matter how unsavory the artist was in their personal life/past..especially when talking to my parents or elders. Yes, one of my favorite rappers sold drugs and another one is/was addicted to prescription medicine and who knows what else, but when you think about it, most musicians have SOMETHING or even a plethora of shyt in their closets that comes out in their music, by them disclosing it themselves, or from scandal.
Therefore, when my folks make a comment about one of my favorite artist, my instant retort is, “Well at least he didn’t kill himself like Donnie Hathaway,” or “I hope his father don’t murder him like Marvin Gaye’s dad did.” Even Lil’ Wayne having multiple babies by different women at the same time is nothing in comparison to all the “secret” babies and cover-ups that went on between singers and some record execs from back in the day.
Even though I’m not condoning the lifestyle, sometimes parents (and other elders) need to realize that it’s not something exclusive to our generation. *pointing finger at them* They started it.
@Monk,
“Even though I’m not condoning the lifestyle, sometimes parents (and other elders) need to realize that it’s not something exclusive to our generation. *pointing finger at them* They started it.”
Ain’t nothing new under the sun.
@miss t-lee,
Ain’t nothing new under the sun.
My grandmother has told me the same thing.
@K to the…,
you should read proverbs…
@Monk,
to some extent i feel you. but for me, the embarrassment has come more from not really recognizing or understanding the implications of the type of music i listen to (and this goes beyond rap). now, as a grown up, i have reconciled the fact that some of the music i listen to and like can be very damaging to kids (especially ones i work with) when they come from broken homes and are already severely misguided. i no longer think its wrong for me to like this music, it just reminds me that i have to be more cognizant of whats going on and how this music (and other forms of “art”) can have negative affects on “at risk” youth.
@Gem of the Ocean,
Great points!!
The thing about a lot of hip-hop that makes it different from old school r&b, funk, and soul is that kids(and some adults) want to emulate the life a lot of these rappers glorify in their music. I don’t know any adults today who wanted to live like Marvin Gaye, or wanted the actual lives of The Jackson 5.
@Gem of the Ocean,
i agree 100 percent and sh*t
@Monk,
“Even though I’m not condoning the lifestyle, sometimes parents (and other elders) need to realize that it’s not something exclusive to our generation. *pointing finger at them* They started it.”
*nods enthusiastically*
That “heathen” stuff produced some of the finest music in the history of music. Could it have been done without it? Probably…but I don’t know that world. lol
@Monk, Even though I’m not condoning the lifestyle, sometimes parents (and other elders) need to realize that it’s not something exclusive to our generation. *pointing finger at them* They started it.
I’m so gonna try that as my defense at the next panel i get invited to speak on.
Pat Metheny is the sh!t though.
@Captain Morgan,
he is. “last train home” might be my all-time favorite jazz track
*Unpopular Opinion*
Jay is cool. He has some zingers in his arsenal, but honestly I haven’t jumped on his bandwagon. Mind you, Reasonable Doubt was my favorite album by him, with all the rest having a sprinkle of hits I jammed occasionally, but I’ve never anointed him King of Rap and still don’t recognize anyone as such.
But alas…let me creep out of here as the Jay-hova worshippers will question my opinion. I’m glad this topic wasn’t about the two dead guy rappers or I would’ve been attacked by the 2Pacalytes and the Bigg-amists.
@CPT Callamity,
I’ve been crucified and burned at the stake by 2Pac and Jay-Z fans/stans.
@CPT Callamity,
I’m with you. Reasonable Doubt is my favorite album. The others have a few tracks I like but that’s it. I like Jay, but he’s not my favorite rapper. I know my opinion is unpopular b/c I’d much rather listen to Big Boi or Andre 3000. I LOVE Outkast. They’re not afraid to be different and their sound always evolves which isn’t common amongst rappers. I don’t think they get enough credit.
@voiceovereason,
3 Stacks is definitely one of my favs. Outkast does something that most groups fail to do and that is evolve! All of their albums sound different and show growth, which is the reason I actually purchase their stuff. Matter of fact…during the 94-2003 run, you couldn’t tell me nuffin about Outkast…they stayed in rotation.
@CPT Callamity,
Completely agree.
Grown a$$ Andre 3000 wearing a grandma dress on an album cover… couldn’t tell him nothin either.
@voiceovereason,
Ha!
I absolutely LOVE Outkast (moreso Andre 3000 than Big Boi, but I like them both) and would select them other any Jay-Z any day. We are part of a very small group but I like small groups.
@Sula is pro-Socialism,
“moreso Andre 3000 than Big Boi, but I like them both”
Me too.
We’re an exclusive group! Outkast is on another level that some folks just can’t understand
@CPT Callamity,
I will join you in that very small group of “Yes, Jay is cool… but really that’s it”…
I’ve never had any convos like that with my parents. My mom loves rap and hip-hop b/c of the stories and she’s a Jay Z fan. My dad is incredibly grounded and can identify with a lot of rappers in some instances, but doesn’t like Jay Z for whatever reason (I can’t remember).
One of my fav tracks on Reasonable Doubt is Regrets. I’m sure Jay has some remorse even if he doesn’t express it. I think a lot of rappers (including Jay Z) are depressed so they do what many depressed black men do: talk a lot of ish and pretend like everything is ok. I think Jay Z is the persona Shawn Carter created.
@voiceovereason, I love “Regrets” as well
@voiceovereason,
I think a lot of rappers (including Jay Z) are depressed so they do what many depressed black men do: talk a lot of ish and pretend like everything is ok. I think Jay Z is the persona Shawn Carter created.
I def agree with that!
@voiceovereason,
I think a lot of rappers (including Jay Z) are depressed so they do what many depressed black men do: talk a lot of ish and pretend like everything is ok
thats an interesting way of looking at things and sh*t
I think the notion that it has no influence is just as absurd as the notion that a song will singlehandedly make someone commit a crime. Also, the difference between hip hop and movies is that in the movie the presumption is that it is fictional and in music the line is more blurred, since your music and interviews and at times outside behavior follow the same pattern.
However there are some including Jay-Z and others that do good things in this world even if they make no bones about the effed up stuff they talk about, or have done or may still do. In that way they are a lot like politicians that on some days do honorable things and other days take bribes and sell out poor people which makes me think that this dichotomy is bigger than rappers and just happens to be one of the complexities of the society we live in.
I just see it as a guilty pleasure and my generation isn’t the only one to have them, liquor stores have done more damage to black communities than rap ever can or will but old ninjas ain’t stopped drankin’…
@Omar, co-sign!
@Omar,
very good points.
and… lol @ “old ninjas ain’t stopped drankin’”
@Gem of the Ocean,
This made me smile too.
@Omar,
liquor stores have done more damage to black communities than rap ever can or will but old ninjas ain’t stopped drankin’…
Sounds kinda prohibitionist to me.
I let my parents do them. I keep my enthusiasms for myself and other people who were naturally interested in them. If I was a stand up comic, I wouldn’t concern myself with tryna make my mom or dad laugh. Hence I keep my Hip-Hop away from them, just let my pops think it’s little more than “cursing records.”
They had their time with rap, back when I was little and my pops had KDAY on while he lifted weights or moms let us play LL or Beastie Boys in the minivan. That ship sailed once I was old enough to buy albums myself.
^^^^
That was supposed to be a separate comment, not a reply to a reply. Oh well, this post’s day is over anyway.
Okay “brown thinking” had me *doubled over* but them talking about fiddy sent me into *afib*.
ooh yo Daddy got a pork roast? *droolin talkin slow*
I hear your Dad’s *walk away* though. I could even add to your arguement w/ some, “judge not lest ye be judged” But @ the same time couldn’t help but respect old school from the end of New Jack City… Pscht (I’m so wavy) @ least he rode that beat like somthing from back in the days.
@WuDaMan,
*Fall allergies* @ the lost children.
@WuDaMan,
Not *fall allergies*. Lol. You’re too much.
One thing this thread makes me appreciate is my parents’ love of music. They are truly young at heart. I grew up on hip hop cuz my parents put me on. Pops has put me up on everyone from Kane, to Newcleus (ha! ‘memba them?), Whodini and Cash Money. Mama is more of a 50, Pac and Nas stan but she branches out more and more each passing year. (I caught her bumping some Rakim last cleaning day.)
I should give them a hug at some point this week.
@Me fail english?, you really should. i got into hiphop b/c of my older sister. i’d jack her tapes. firs time i heard NWA, i was COMPLETELY sold on the WestCoast sound. even to this day, you cant tell me sh*t about DJ Quik and Dr. Dre. Or Cube. Or Eazy. Or Compton’s Most Wanted.
@Panama Jackson,
CMW is by far my favorite West Coast group of all time!
@Me fail english?,
Yeah, definitely hug your parents. They sound like mine. I was actually encouraged to watch Yo! MTV Raps when I was younger. I grew up around a bunch of 2520s and they refused to have a child that was culturally or musically out of touch.
@voiceovereason,
Hol’ up! I thought your name was ‘Voiceofreason’. What’s this ‘voiceovereason’ handle?? Is this the bizarro world version like that fugazi ‘Over It’??
@Me fail english?,
Hehe! Good catch! I changed it to voiceovereason b/c I’m taking bigger steps toward starting a career as a voiceover. I finally started recording my demo. I should be finished by tomorrow.
@voiceovereason,
Good luck! I wonder if I came back as “Me failed english?” or smthg if ppl would notice…hmm
@Me fail english?,
i’d notice e-bff!!
this post reminds me of my mom and how she picks up on popular “urban” slang and is somewhat knowledgeable about rappers and other artists in the biz. she’s kinda bourgie tho she swears up and down she’s “down” and from around the way.
i’ll never forget the time when i’d come home from college on break and i mentioned “puff” (as in combs) and my mama had the nerve to say “uh he goes by p. diddy now”. i was like well scuuuuuuuuse the heck outta me.
but my mom isn’t that tryna be cool mom who either uses slang awkwardly or out of context. this woman actually uses it appropriately and in flow with the convo. but it always takes me aback. and when i show my shock she says “what? i’m old. not dead.”
so i guess i say all that to say, my mom is a G (and she’s also fallen in love with flo-rida…. *smh* i dont get it). my dad on the other hand has no concept of whats cool, hip, or hot in the streets, nor does he give a damn. he thinks rap is rotting me and my brother’s brains. no matter what our counter arguments are, he still stands firm. he did however find a rap song he LOVES and sings to me whenever i come home–>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGJWFxdFr1I
@Gem of the Ocean,
he did however find a rap song he LOVES and sings to me whenever i come home–>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGJWFxdFr1I
thats sweet and sh*t
Here’s my dilemma:
On the one hand, I was a kid once. And having grown up around kids from all different home situations and grew up to be all different types of people, I really dont think rap was a major factor in long-term success or failure. We were ALL heavily influenced by the music. But being honest, the folks that succeeded arent the ones who listened to the least rap or rejected it at some point. And the ones who failed werent the ones who listened to it the most. The failures tend to be the kids I remember as followers, lazy, lacking discipline/structure/attention, or just plain disobedient. If rappers all rapped about Dr. King and Maslow pyramids, part of me just thinks these kids would gravitate to a new negative influence.
On the other hand, what it rappers had positive messages. I could totally see at least some of these kids (esp. the followers) jumping on a positivity bandwagon. And if we could save even a few kids by doing smthg as small as changing lyrical content, isn’t it worth it? We’re not tryna save every kid from the ghetto, just make consientousness and social responsibility more of a priority. Right?
@Me fail english?,
Right…
@Me fail english?,
Co-sign completely. Reference: Lupe Fiasco’s, Hurts me Soul.
Bond. BlkBond.
@Me fail english?, On the other hand, what it rappers had positive messages. I could totally see at least some of these kids (esp. the followers) jumping on a positivity bandwagon. And if we could save even a few kids by doing smthg as small as changing lyrical content, isn’t it worth it? We’re not tryna save every kid from the ghetto, just make consientousness and social responsibility more of a priority. Right?
yeah I dont know about that…
I dont think we should limit a rappers ability to tell his story and his point of view, I think we should have more variety in what is played on the radio and the censoring should be more strict…..
at the end of the day it is entertainment and art. It is someone’s voice..and yes I do think we should have more rappers out there that show the WHOLE picture of the game but Hell.. these kids idolize scarface and he was shot the f!ck up at the end… my pimpin pimpin cuz loves the Mac
and he was run ot of town broke and on a grey hound bus.
The point is, the music while it does provide some influence.. they are not emulating the life of the rappers.. they are emulating the life of the people that they see everyday.. and the rappes are providing the soundtrack.
Hell you can rap all day about unicorns and aint nobody gone but it aint till a ninja in the hood by a shetland and stick a horn on his head that people gone start believing in them…
@shay_d_lady,
Gotta disagree with you there. In my experience, kids dont just pick one or the other (real life thugs or rappers) to emulate. They see a lifestyle and think anyone living it is worth copying. That’s why these same kids can grow up in a home where dad was a postman, mama was a nurse but still are looking to act a fool. We’ve seen the youtube vids of kids who look they aint hardly grew up around some hustlers but damn sure are gonna pretend they did. That’s not Pookie from the block they’re copying. That’s Gucci Mane.
Plus, not every kid in the ghetto is “exposed”. On the contrary, some families keep their kids sheltered and their first exposure to thugs is what they see in rap. Thats when they make the choice to go find real-life examples of what they see on wax.
I dont wanna censor folks necessarily or dictate the story they can tell, Im just hoping more artists become mindful of the impact they have on youth and be responsible about what they say…instead of just saying “raise yo own effin kids” as if anybody asked these ninjas..
@Me fail english?, Here’s my dilemma:
On the one hand, I was a kid once. And having grown up around kids from all different home situations and grew up to be all different types of people, I really dont think rap was a major factor in long-term success or failure. We were ALL heavily influenced by the music. But being honest, the folks that succeeded arent the ones who listened to the least rap or rejected it at some point. And the ones who failed werent the ones who listened to it the most. The failures tend to be the kids I remember as followers, lazy, lacking discipline/structure/attention, or just plain disobedient. If rappers all rapped about Dr. King and Maslow pyramids, part of me just thinks these kids would gravitate to a new negative influence.
but I gotta co sign all of this…
@Me fail english?, quite interesting dichotomy you point out.
and i pretty much agree with you. i thnk the folks that succeeded including myself listened to some of the most misogynystic and worst of it all.
i mean for real…i’m a total azzhole and kanye didnt even hit big until like…the 2000s. i been this way.
I like Jay-Z. Especiallyihis 1st two albums. But i think people place too much emphasis on him to be more than what he is. He has told everyone who he is through his music and people still want him to be something he is not. A lot of his material as far drug dealing is fantasy. I just don’t buy the story of him being a drug kingpin. Every dude that I have known that was getting money in the streets didn’t have the lifestyle that would create that good of a rapper. Was he a low level drug dealer? IMHO yes. But was he a Big Meech, Freeway Rick, Alpo type of kingpin? No. I commend him on his business moves but at the same time he has always said he is about his money.
@Humble_One aka $5 Footlong, Jay-Z has said in many an interview that he wasnt a kingpin. He actually said on BP3 that he was still using the hand held scales which shows he wasnt moving King Pin weight
@Peysonic Temple,
I haven’t heard BP3 yet. But at least he admitted to it. I’ve had dudes argue me down that he was a huge drug dealer.
@ TheChamp….Right so Mama calls me at 9am like, ‘Are you up?’. Ummm I do have a job Mom. I’m thinking she’s gonna remind me to eat my lunch but no, she calls to tell me that she just heard Jay-Z talking about Kanye, racism and his East Side apt shares. She starts with ‘Since I know you are Jay-Z’s Bff and all, I thought you’d like to know…’ (Yes, I’m a Jay-stan. Judge me, I don’t care.) …..Anyway, the point of the story is Jay uses the shares associated with condo to counter vote every issue the board brings up. (He bought the largest apt to get the most shares and the most votes.) He does this because when he wanted to move in they didn’t want him to because he was ‘a gangster rapper’. Little did the Board know people change. They grow up. Rags to riches- or whatever. Jay is not a gangster anymore, he is a grown arse business man. He’s learned the business game, he’s playing it and his neighbors are hating him right now. Not to mention when his investment banker, lawyer, CEO friends come to visit, he tells them to dress in all black to fit the ‘gangsta’ mold and make his neighbors even more mad. LOL! I love it!
I’m with your Dad Champ, Jay did it and did it well. If anything he should be an inspiration to the kids. I bef to differ with your angle of his glorification of his ‘street life’. I think he used it as a basis for his lyrics at one point but never did he put it in bright lights and say come do this too. That’s more than I can say for ‘fiddy’ who still raps like he lives in Jamaica, Queens. The street life ain’t the life and Jay says that. He’ll be on Oprah tomorrow. You and your Dad should watch.
@Daydreamer, “Jay is not a gangster anymore, he is a grown arse business man.”
I honestly like, Jay-z, but people always say this as if being crooked is somehow anti-business; it’s not and never has been. In fact some of the richest families in America have been involved in some crookedness at some point or another.
@Omar,
“In fact some of the richest families in America have been involved in some crookedness at some point or another.”
Please say that again.
@miss t-lee,
And again.
I love how “urban” crime is somehow deemed more criminal. There goes that word again!
Seriously, though, folks think every single 2520 CEO/bigwig got where they are by following the straight and narrow?
@Cheekie,
Like Chris Rock said only 2520s can profit from exploitation. It does seem like everybody else can take illegal gains and flip it into long term legit wealth except for black folks.
@Omar,
I don’t know why people think all CEO’s and wealthy people played the hard-working, straight and narrow position. From my experience these qualities can keep you from being rich.
@Humble_One aka $5 Footlong,
Exactly… working at UPS was the hard as hell and got me nowhere…
@Omar, Agreed. Like I said a little further down, he’s learned to play the business game; for better or for worse. I’m not sure how crooked his game might be compared to the big Goldman Sacks of gov’t but he’s def got this one on lock. Capitalism, don’t we love it? ….. But honestly, I think Jay got in with the right folks at the right time (ie Leor Cohen, Kevin Liles, etc) and they helped him shape his career. When you rub elbows with the big guys, they’ll teach you the ropes and all you have to do is swing. Happy Swanging Jay!
@Daydreamer,
I’m with your Dad Champ, Jay did it and did it well. If anything he should be an inspiration to the kids. I bef to differ with your angle of his glorification of his ’street life’.
lol, i think you got it mixed up. my dad was the one with the issue, and i was the one without the words to explain why it was ok to me.
btw, this…
He’ll be on Oprah tomorrow. You and your Dad should watch.
…is gayer than a christmas tree
at around 6:15 this evening, i’m going to get in my truck and drive to a rec league basketball game. on the way, i’ll probably listen to either raekwon (60 minutes of drug tales and murder rap) or the blueprint 3. if i’m bored with those selections, i’ll probably pop in a mixtape i made last week that includes tracks such as “kill dat f*ggot” (no explanation needed), and “you don’t know” (a jay-z favorite of mine that contains lines such as “I came into this motherf*cker a hundred grand strong/nine to be exact, from grindin g-packs/put this sh*t in motion ain’t no rewindin me back/could make 40 off a brick but one rhyme could beat that” which basically translate to “yup, i sold crack. but i quit because i could make myself even richer rapping“)
i’m bringing this up because the point of this entry isn’t that i feel guilty about the type of music that i listen to. whats bothering me is the fact that i dont feel guilty at all. i feel like i should be a bit ashamed because intellectually, i know that the music i listen to and the type of work i do and losses i’ve experienced aren’t just incongruent, they’re completely contradictory.
but, it doesn’t bother me at all, and the fact that i’m so easily able to compartmentalize makes me feel like theres something wrong with me. to me its akin to someone holding their hand over a flame and not feeling any pain. they know they should be feeling something, but since they’re not there’s either something wrong with how their brain is working, or the hand is dead.
if this doesn’t make any sense, good. it means i articulated my point exactly how i wanted to because this feeling doesn’t make any sense to me either.
@The Champ, i dont feel guilty either.
and i won’t. i’m sexxy.
@The Champ,
its akin to someone holding their hand over a flame and not feeling any pain. they know they should be feeling something, but since they’re not there’s either something wrong with how their brain is working, or the hand is dead.
And I think this is the “double consciousness” of our generation. Consciously knowing that something shouldn’t feel good, but intrinsically enjoying said thing.
I don’t have any answers because I go through the same thing on the regular. If you find any way to better deal with this, please holla.
@Sula is pro-Socialism,
Ever heard of David Brenner? He has a few books. Check out The Gift of Self.
Like Brooks said, “either get busy living or get busy dieing.”
@WuDaMan,
that last part was a shawshank redemption quote
@WuDaMan,
Very interesting viewpoint. And I like the Shawshank nod.
@The Champ, “the fact that i’m so easily able to compartmentalize makes me feel like theres something wrong with me.”
Nope, it’s just one of those defense mechanisms that keeps us from going all in, like liberal-ass white people who chain themselves to trees or gets arrested every weekend because their opposed to the Iraq war.
It sounds bad but compartmentalization keeps you from going off the deep end in more ways than one…
@The Champ,
I just wonder why the contradiction (if one exists) bothers you so much. You’re not bankrolling the destruction of youth by liking hip hop anymore than you are by wearing Nikes (child labor/sweatshops) . I would love to see my generation take more responsibility for “the community” and be less flippant about the wanton violence they broadcast to young fans. However, I think the mission should be not to eliminate negative influence, but to ensure that are kids arent left victimized by it.
Por ejemplo, there was NO such thing as censorship in my house and very few rules. There was the streetlight rule…sometimes. Then there was the bedtime rule…occasionally. But nothing was consistently enforced. Add to that, exposure to some of my relatives was just as bad as (if not worse than) being exposed to street stuff. Add to that, I was raised listening to Clarence Carter and NWA, reading Donald Goines (Whoreson was my first real novel!), you get the point.
I just had an exchange wit my pops last week about teaching my 8 yr old neice to shoot prostitutes in a video game (nevermind me showing her the ending to Scarface the week earlier) and he had to put me in my place. He let me know he didnt mind exposing us to anything cuz he taught us to be good, responsible kids. No matter what you put us up against, his kids emerge the same women as when we went in. And like Daddy always says “at least none of yall smoke crack!” (though this comment belies what an accomplished group of young women we are, it’s paramount to Pops).
Not saying everybody should shoot at prostitutes with their 3rd grade granddaughters, just that there needs to be a paradigm shift with respect to how we prepare youth to take on life. From my own experience, restricting your own sex/violence intake is not nearly as important as teaching a kid that no matter what she sees, live with integrity, according to your own code. For kids who dont have someone to tell them this, I dont think censorship is even close to being a substitute.
with most rappers it’s easy to be a fan of their music because really good rappers have a talent that most other rappers could only dream for and that it the talent to you know actually rap. put words that rhyme and make you think on wax. it’s easy to forget that someone like jay used to be on the curb moving white like he was shoveling snow.
also i bet there is a very low percentage of rappers out here talking about being in the drug game that actually are/were. like if you the biggest trapper then why are you rapping? why glorify such a lifestyle when you know you had nothing to do with the sort (read: rick ross).
@Tunde, and Plies
I had a similar convo with my grandparents. (My parents are too young, my mom is only a few years older than Jay). They forget that their favorite artist did Coke, Heron, were hoes and wife beaters too. They just didnt sing about it.
@Peysonic Temple,
They just didnt sing about it.
And I think that’s the point, Champ’s dad is trying to make… Live your crazy life but don’t “infect” your music with that…
I am a bit torn on the subject because on the one hand you have VSBers crucifying Lauryn Hill based on her private life and nothing she has ever said in a her lyrics reflect that “lifestyle”, but then you have the same VSBers glorifying Jay-Z who openly and admittedly committed crimes that decimated entire black neighborhood.
It seems like “success” – however it is defined in the minds of our generation is enough to alleviate someone’s of their destructive pasts.
Like I said, I don’t have a definite opinion on this. Maybe because I am not that much of a Jay-Z fan or most former-drug-kingpins-turned-rappers so it might be easy for me to see them as what they are: former drug dealers who now rap about it.
@Sula is pro-Socialism, I much rather them sing about. Confront their issues. Sing/rap about what they used to do. Cant say all artist do that. But I know the bol Shawn does.
@Peysonic Temple,
Um…have you ever heard “Flying High In the Friendly Sky” by Marvin Gaye.
Yep…straight up coke song.
@miss t-lee,
True, but the song was about not being able to shake the addiction.
“… I go the place where danger waits and it’s bound to forsake me, sooo stupid minded but I go crazy when i can’t find it…” – Marvin Gaye
I’m just sayin it’s not exactly “I get High, I get High, I get High…” by Styles P.
@Omar,
Word.Life.
@Omar,
Hmmmmm.
You say potato, I say…dah well.
If you really like this music, you have to embrace and be able to defend the worst.
Here’s how you do it.
1. You don’t point to other musical genre’s.
2. You don’t point to film and other forms of media.
3. Don’t point out some “positive” artist as what hip hop is really about. (I mean PE did a song called She Watch Channel Zero, Mos Def works with the Black Keys but did a song called Rock and Roll, I won’t even start on Q-tip)
You take on the other person’s argument, and make them prove it.
And believe me, none of them can. I do this all the time.
The haters say that listening to hip hop causes bad things to happen.
Ask them what those bad things are?
Crime and babies.
So you’d expect that since hip hop has gone from being 1 hour @ 9pm on your radio, to 24/7 everywhere you go, you’d expect to see more black kids getting into crime and more teens having babies.
Cause the haters are basically saying that if you expose children to these harmful messages they’re going to do these things.
The more sophisticated ones say that “no song is going to make a kid pull a trigger, but it desensitizes/glamourizes/rationalizes that kind of behavior”
If that’s true (and it’ s not), the stats measured by white folks (who love to keep tabs on black dysfunction) will show it.
The FBI stats will tell you that juvenile crime has been on a decline
The CDC will tell you that black teens are having less babies.
Things was much worse in the hood, when hip hop was “safe”. Take it back to the early 80′s…that’s when the hood was really on and popping. CRACK kills. So when cats was pumping Joeski Love’s Pee Wee’s Dance, cats was slanging left and right. It’s back in the “good old days” that NYC was someplace unsafe.
It could be that with Jeezy n’nem getting it for 17.5 is allowing would be hoods to live out their Nino Brown dreams in mp3 land not in the real world. It could be that hearing about all this s3x and violence is what’s keeping the real rates down.
Who knows?
Indeed, one might even start looking into other communities, as according to the powers that be, 252o’s buy 80% of rap music. Has White Settlement, Texas turned into OakCliff? Are the little Manhattan private school kids turning into MOP?
To recap
When someone tells you that hip hop is bad, you ask them what is bad about it, and then make them prove it.
They will not be able to prove it.
That’s when you’ll uncover the truth about how they feel about hip hop, but really about black folks. You’ll uncover a lot of Ward Connerly’s, John McWhorter’s, and Bill Cosby’s in people that you thought were really down for the cause.
We should be happy that Souljah Boy is doing his thing and not messing up my burger @ checker’s.
- WIA
@WestIndianArchie,
Now I’ll be singing “Oak Cliff, that’s my hood, put it in they face, make isht understood…” the rest of the day
Thanks WIA…
@WestIndianArchie,
We should be happy that Souljah Boy is doing his thing and not messing up my burger @ checker’s.
And I agree with that.
The thing is most people on this board today will not. And therein lies the dichotomy. You can’t say what one does is “all good” (Jay-Z) and what the other does is all bad (Souljah Boy), especially when the former was indirectly killing hundreds of people by selling crack and when the latter is just merely entertaining people of his generation with silly dances.
As long as we stay fair and balanced (No Fox News), I would say we are all good. We can disagree on talent because obviously Jay-Z is lightyears ahead of Souljah Boy as far as talent goes, but we can’t say one’s content is “cooning” while the other is” poetry”. That’s where I draw my gun (No NWA) at those supposedly established “hip hop heads”.
@Sula is pro-Socialism,
We should be happy that Souljah Boy is doing his thing and not messing up my burger @ checker’s. .
I’ve said this before, not on the board but the TH, and I pretty much got the response that they prefer he be out on the corner slanging, than on the radio. SMH
@WestIndianArchie,
So what’s wrong w/ the black keys Danger mouse worked w/ them too and he is half of gnarles barkley. What I like the blues n sh!t.
@WuDaMan,
The Black Keys are great (prolly my favorite band @ the time of this writing), but Mos Def made a relatively ignorant song about white rockers stealing black soul. That’s *exactly* what the Black Keys do. They had a tribute album to John Lee Hooker.
How you gonna preach one thing on and practice another.
That’s like black revolutionaries hooking up with white women (or latinas, asians, lt skinded chicks, caribbean chicks, african chicks, ethiopians especially, thin chicks, chicks with phat a$$es, chicks with tig ol bitties….basically if she ain’t vaguely cute but not to pretty, dark skinded from Alabama and got a professional degree – you can be critiqued)
@WestIndianArchie,
AAAAAAAAAAAhahahahahaahah word up I hear you bro.
wow…I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had similar talks with my parents. In the car, when I wanted to listen to some good ol’ Atlanta ignorance (Gucci, to be exact)..when my phone rang and my ringtone offended everyone in the car (“Nasty Song”–YouTube it, lol)…when my mother asked me exactly what “Becky” was…
To hear them tell it, you’d think their music is as sweet and golden as gospel..but I’m digressing.
I know most of the stuff I have pumping into my headphones is filthy. And as much as I try to defend the music I love and to claim that choruses of Party, party, party/Let’s all get wasted are art in its purest form…I can’t….
But at the end of the day Jay never claimed to be some moral figure. He just said “hey, look I can rap!”
And I love him for it
They called me “DOPE MAN” I try to tell em I’m the ghetto spokesman, the projects hope man
Can You Hate The Artist but Love The Art?
http://ethicist.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/10/can-you-hate-the-artist-but-love-the-art/?ex=1269230400&en=9d39f7e148c80923&ei=5087&WT.mc_id=GN-D-I-NYT-MOD-MOD-M115b-ROS-0909-L2&WT.mc_ev=click
“Gotta learn to live with regrets.” Jay Z
Sidenote: Props to The Champ’s parents for listening to Pat Metheny. I love him. I think my dad may be Pat’s biggest fan.
@ The Champ –
Don’t know if you’re still checking comments but can we really make an intellectually honest case that Jay-Z had no remorse about the drug game??? What about:
“Like I told you sell drugs – No!
Hov’ did that
so hopefully you won’t have to go through that”
Not to mention this is one of the few rappers in the public spotlight to actually talk negatively about sagging pants, throw back jersies, buying out the bar, chrome rims, and every other negative stereotype so highly coveted by the hip hop industry which negatively influences our youth.
I’m just sayin’…
@The Janitor,
i see the point you’re trying to make, but for every “remorseful” line you can easily site another ignant and remorseless one.
plus, i never said he was completely remorseless, just that its hard to gauge how penitent someone truly is, especially when they have admittedly contrasting messages in their music
and while jay does get credit for ushering in the “grown and sexy” phase, that was more of a classist movement than a “positive” one. its akin to stringer bell on the wire thumbing his nose at the cats on the corner still banging, conveniently forgetting that he had a prominent hand in creating those conditions.
welcome and sh*t, btw
@The Champ,
LOL thanks for the warm welcome. Been a silent fan of the VSB for a min now but had to weigh in on this one.
I can appreciate the reference to The Wire (one of the greatest TV shows ever created). To continue the analogy, Jay was to Stringer as Damon Dash was to Avon Barksdale. In fact, you could really expand it beyond Dam’ to about 90% of the hip hop industry in terms of positive growth vs. stagnation. So while I see your point that there was a “classist” element involved in the evolution of Jay-Z’s lyrics, you have to concede that it was also about positivity and positive growth as well.
Between Reasonable Doubt and The Blueprint Jay did a lot of growing, but it really didn’t become evident until around The Black Album (one of my personal fav’s). That’s when you really saw Jay-Z start to distance himself from a lot of the “studio gangster” negativity commonly associated with the hip hop industry. Truth be told I didn’t even like Jay-Z around Reasonable Doubt time, for all the reasons that your pops would have likely pointed out. However, again I think it’s important that if you ever do finish that convo with your pops that you mention Jay has come a long way from being one of those drug-game-glorifying, look-at-my-big-rims-rappers who plague the hip hop industry today.
I mean, just listen to the lyrics on “So Ambitious” from this latest Blueprint 3 album and tell me this cat is still the same remorseless thug from BKLYN that he was back in ’96. No way.
See also http://www.unicef.org/wash/index_36634.html