“hey champ…”
the anonymous questioner from platonic shmetonic asked yesterday in an email,
“…why do all the bad boys and urban models stripper-types always seem to get all the spoils? is there any hope for the good guy and the nice girl? are we forever doomed??”
i wanted to write back “of course not“, but, in reality, when every man with a voicebox wants a stripper, every black women wants a thug, and even the churchgoingest “baddest chick in the game” marries a former drug dealer, that would have been an outright lie.
“good” guys and “nice” girls have become the proverbial red-headed retarded step children of american culture, dropped and dismissed, disgraced and defeated, discarded and defrocked . regardless of where you look, there’s concrete proof that they also consistently get the short end of the romantic stick. it’s always been true, and will probably always continue to be. these facts are inescapable, like anton chigurh or a timely case of public transit bubble guts, right?
right?
wait…right?
wrong.
other than the greeting card, theres no bigger ongoing scam in american culture than the idea that truly good guys and girls finish “last” romantically.
i have myriad facts to prove my claim, but for the sake of time and space, i’ll only dive into one
a faulty definition of “first”
we have to re-examine this definition of “first”, because if all the good people are finishing last, someone has to be “first”, right? well, if you define “first” as “getting more attention from the opposite sex, and appearing to have more dates and/or prospects“, then yes, maybe those with a bit more of an edge, a bit more swagger, a bit more potential danger, and a bit more superficial sex appeal finish “first” more often.
thing is, if bagging more chicks or scamming more dudes into taking you to ihop is your definition of “first”, then maybe you’re really not all that “good” of a person anyway!!
but, if by finishing “first” you mean “having more success finding sincere and loving and compatible mates, and sustaining positive romantic relationships“, then i couldn’t stress “no” strong enough. everybody, regardless of their status and disposition, has difficulty finding this, and i’d even argue that the “not-good” guys and urban models bad girls have the most difficulty, because of the never-ending game and ubiquitous trust issues that come along with that territory and leave them perpetually bitter and jaded.
maybe they won’t win the first couple of sprints, but in the marathon of life, i’ll put my money on the good guy and the nice girl to finish “first”. maybe that trophy at the end won’t be exactly what they desired, but it aint all about the “trophy” though, is it?
—the champ
That’s interesting. I was just having a discussion on this topic not more than a couple hours ago. I think most people know what you’ve concluded, that the “good” guys and gals finish first. However, sometimes that gets pushed to the back of your mind.
It’s kinda like some guy working his ass off, going to school, doing well, but still being broke because he’s going through a learning process that takes time. And he’s got some friend of his who dropped out of middle school to sell drugs that’s driving fancy cars and pulling women left and right who don’t seem to care that they’re being treated like crap.
The poor guy wants to experience a bit of life too. He wants to get attention from the ladies. He wants to enjoy things in life that the thugs and “bad” guys around him are doing. But, it doesn’t happen. So, he starts to get jaded. Wondering if there is any justice in the world. And even after the thug goes to jail or has some crazy woman put his slong in a vise, the “good” guy still can’t help wondering if maybe it would have been worth it to have been bad.
Most of this issue is one of perception. Nice guys and gals just need more role models out there. Other nice people in great relationships having great lives so that people aren’t going around envying the thugs and bad girls for the perceived fun they’re having.
‘people aren’t going around envying the thugs and bad girls for the perceived fun they’re having.’
this is the key right here. we have a tendency to think that the grass is always greener, even if that other lawn is filled with weeds and roaches
Ohh goodness…roaches in the yard though…scared for you to tell of whats in the actual crib (smirk lol)
Wow. I consider myself a “good girl,” and I really had concluded recently that good girls really do finish last. Even with your marathon idea, it’s hard to think in the long-term when you see so many “worthless” (or “unethical,” or “bad” etc.) people with the things you feel you want/deserve/have worked hard for. It seems so unfair. **Sticks out bottom lip**
exactly what type of “things” are you referring to?
I think she’s referring to some of what I mentioned. financial success, hot guy/gal on their arm, the (seeming) respect of their peers, being a pillar of the black community (you saw American Gangster).
Yeah, I was referring to relationship success, basically.
BlackL7…
Who are you to judge that those “worthless” (or “unethical,” or “bad” etc.) people are truly “worthless” or “bad”???? Just curious.
You have no idea what those same people do when you aren’t with them. Unless they have cameras following them everywhere and you can see every thing they do…you can’t say that they are “this or that”. Just my $0.08 cents of opinion.
i think we all have the capacity to judge one another. i never subscribed by the “only God can judge me” tenet, because that relives us of accountibility
Yes, thank you. I think that we judge people everyday. I’m not talking about writing people off forever, or not hoping that people get on a right path, but I think that people’s actions/behavior speaks volumes about who they are. What I was referring to was women who are loud, rude, have so many notches on their bedposts it’s damn near a tooth pick, still getting a guy to be in a relationship with them–women who are obviously of questioable ethics or not nice people. Being a good person is not just about what you do when you’re with your friends or the people you love, it’s also about how you treat others.
real talk, cuz.
thing is…even if video ho broads are bagging the kats I think I want – I really don’t want them in the long run if they’re shallow on that level anyway.
basically I’m a catch, ho. anybody that can’t compute that isn’t worth my time. my ego does me good in this respect.
not that I generally have this problem, though. I’m a good girl but I ooze bad girl-ness.
“basically I’m a catch, ho. anybody that can’t compute that isn’t worth my time. my ego does me good in this respect.”
see everybody, this is why my family is better than everyone elses.
Hmmm I think I like your cuz more then you now Champ….I dig the ego.
we have something in common cause i think i like my cuz more than i like you too, lol.
Like BLACKL, I consider myself a ‘good woman’ and have had my share of ‘grass is greener being a gold digger’ syndrome after a relationship ends. Only to run into the guy who couldn’t commit- didn’t want to compromise-needed space-hated my shoe obsession-or whatever his reasons are for ending things; with his new boo/fiance/wife… and he credits me for being the reason he cleaned up his act. This has happened to me more than once, an ex calls me up full of hindsight 20/20; to apologize for his actions and to tell me how he’s in love, and has really changed and he wants to thanks me for showing him how to do that…. Is it just me or is anyone else tired of being the ‘lesson learned’ girlfriend/boyfrined, only to have another woman reap the benefits of my labor?!?! this may seem a bit off topic, but it crossed my mind while reading this…
It’s not just you. Many women have been in the same boat. I’ve learned that it’s better to wait for someone who you don’t have to labor over. It’s saving me from a lot of the stress, frustration, and disappointment I watch my friends deal with.
Has anyone read When Chickenheads Come Home to Roost by Joan Morgan? I found it enlightening; it supports today’s topic.
I have! I have a love/hate relationship with a lot of the things Mrs. Morgan says in the book, but it does flow with todays convo.
I’ve had to learn that lesson the hard way…
care to expound about this book?
The book was written by a “hip-hop feminist.” In a nutshell, she discusses her experiences with men, and how “good women” can learn a thing or two from “chickenheads” without sacrificing their morals.
“Is it just me or is anyone else tired of being the ‘lesson learned’ girlfriend/boyfrined, only to have another woman reap the benefits of my labor?!?!”
this is a great topic idea
The thing is thatfor the most part, everyone is reaping from someone else’s labor…it’s the nature of relationships.
true. everybody’s still a work in progress
I agree with her majesty.
I have a good friend that is in a loveless, horrible marriage because she does not want the “next chic to reap the benefits of all (her) hard work and sacrifice” so she puts up with her obsessed unapreciatieve porn obsessed husband that she does not love.
You gals aren’t the only ones. Me and a couple and a couple of my buddies have determined we must have been “starter” boyfriends.
hmmmmmmm.
That is all.
this line right here: “thing is, if bagging more chicks or scamming more dudes into taking you to ihop is your definition of “first”, then maybe you’re really not all that “good” of a person anyway!!” mint julep LOVES IT!
a friend of mine called me the other day complaining cause a mutual friend of ours is getting married and my homie was all bitter and mad, “i’m a good girl, way better than her, how she get married first, blah blah” ummm yeah and no…are your really that “good” though? i wrote about this a while back on my blog (http://5andapossible.blogspot.com/2008/02/when-good-just-isnt-enough.html) cause some women (check the previous comments) and men have a warped sense of what’s “good” and what they deserve because they deem themselves to be so.
it’s not all about you and what you think of yourself b/c a relationship involves two willing participants. and furthermore how you gonna covet what somebody else has goin on? you don’t know what that relationship is like, what sacrifices she had to make, what he has to put up with in order for that union to work. would you really be able to do the same? me thinks not.
i agree. i think many of us (“good” people) have a bit of a sense of entitlement…believe that good things should just happen to us because we’re good people. the world doesn’t work that way. we still hafta fight and claw just like everyone else
In my own life, being a “good girl” has been a constant disappointment for me as far as relationships go. I’ve always felt like God eventually gives everyone what they deserve, good or bad, and I feel like I’ve gotten/am getting my just do. But previously to finding a long-lasting relationship, I found that I kept on getting used in one way or another, because of my refusal to use another person.
I would tell my cousins, or girlfriends about the things going on in my relationship, and they would seem rather un-phased by the injustices and instead ask me: ” Well, did he at least take you to Red Lobster? ” or “You told him your birthday was coming up right? Who cares if it ain’t, say it anyway. ” And other comments along that nature. I quickly got the picture that as far as most men go, they’re going to use you and treat you like shit EVENTUALLY, so you may as well milk them for all their worth early on.
Except, I’m soft. I have a hard time asking a dude for a piece of gum, let alone a couple of hundred dollars to help me pay my car insurance. Even when men that I’ve dated made it obvious that the only thing they’re willing to offer me is hard dick and a fresh pair of kicks every couple of weeks. I couldn’t use them for the gifts. I think in some way it made me appear weak, where it should have made me more desirable. Making me a firm believer that good girls/nice guys do in one way or another finish last. Kindness, humility, gentleness, and a generally good disposition can often make you come off as weak, attracting women who want to take advantage of you, or men who want to do the same. This can make any nice girl jaded or defensive, even if it’s not full blown bitterness.
I’m not so jaded anymore, though. Like you said, Champ. It’s a marathon, and being a good person goes a much longer way than a vapid, savage, blood-sucking gold digger. ;]
“…as far as most men go, they’re going to use you and treat you like shit EVENTUALLY, so you may as well milk them for all their worth early on.”
thats another form of faulty thinking and a hugh pet peeve of mine…making vast generalizations about an entire group based on a sample set of like 5 cats, lol.
True. It’s sad. But, it’s also the sentiment of a good number of women. I know that growing up and not seeing many successful relationships in my family, the general idea when in a relationship is like “What is he going to do for you?”
I’ve never bought into that, but after you feel like you’ve been dating those same five bad men over and over again, you start to wonder if you’re missing out because you’re too “good” of a person. Just a thought.
“after you feel like you’ve been dating those same five bad men over and over again, you start to wonder if you’re missing out because you’re too “good” of a person.”
- Sometimes it’s because you’re afraid you can’t do any better. If you’re dating the same bad guy over and over… It might just be you.*
*That’s a “you” in general and not specific
“Kindness, humility, gentleness, and a generally good disposition can often make you come off as weak, attracting women who want to take advantage of you…”
That’s profound.
But therein lies a problem. If one was raised to be those qualities, and all they keep running into is vipers…eventually one goes through the phase of having self doubt questioning their way of being to wondering if they will ever find anyone who can be a reflection of similar values. I am curious to know how you think one could get past that. It’s hard to maintain that level of patience watching the world turn. Yet, I’m always hearing folks say that one shouldn’t be too picky (which I read as “lower your standards”) but when you are looking for someone to spend the rest of your life with, there should never be a compromise of core values.
I promise I had a point and question in there somewhere.
Whoa!!!
“I quickly got the picture that as far as most men go, they’re going to use you and treat you like shit EVENTUALLY…”
- I hope this is not something you believe. “Say it ain’t so Plucky” Most men are not out to use you. Some, maybe. But they’re assholes, and while it may seem like there are a lot of them, it’s just because they make a lot of ripples in the pond.
And using people for selfish reasons IS weak. This includes, gifts, sex, connections, celebrity, whatever.
(I had to break from my edu-ma-cation to write this comment. This foolishness is taking away from my genius.)
she’s not saying that she feels that way personally, but that the people around her seem to hold that opinion
I’ve never actually subscribed to that notion myself. I’ve always felt like you get out what out put into it. For the most part, any chick I’ve ever really wanted to holler at, I’ve hollered at. And I’m a total good guy – assuming you discount those murders and the tons of coke I run across the border every year.
In fact, the only chicks I didn’t pull were the ones that I didn’t put the effort into either due to bitchassness or sheer bitchassness.
To me it seems like the reason people subscribe to finishing last is because they either (like The Champ said) have no clue what finishing first really means or are lazy fucks who don’t put forth the effort to get the type of life that would place them first at the finish line.
Sometimes, the answer lies within, not without.
You know, me and The Champ are good at non-sequiturs. We should start a non-sequitur blog.
And um…look it up.
“We should start a non-sequitur blog.”
lol…i think we already have
“Sometimes, the answer lies within, not without.”
I feel you. I’ve found that most times it takes looking at yourself and adjusting behavioral problems to really see a change in how you’re treated by other people. Problem is, that a lot of women ( good and bag girls included ) assume they’re going to be victimized in a relationship before they even start it, and most times end up being just that. I’m a giver, and giving too much (too soon) is a good way to stimulate every human’s tendency to take. Kind of like an emotional buffet of sorts.
I just got hungry. ;|
Chuuch brotha!! I’m a good guy and I don’t see myself as ever finishing last so to say. I know life isn’t a sprint so I don’t treat it as such.
What’s funny is that I bet everyone who comments on this blog will proclaim that they are the good guy/girl. Where are the bad ones at??
Good point. Practically everyone thinks they’re a good guy/girl because people commonly rationalize they’re behavior…no matter how bad it may be.
I meant “their”
)
theyre all over at sandrarose.com
I guess I am what SOCIETY would label as a good girl w/BAD tendencies. LMAO.
But in reality and logically: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A GOOD/BAD PERSON!!!
“theyre all over at sandrarose.com”
That’s so wrong.
I have always been what folks considered the Good Girl. You know the ususal things that come along with it I dont lie, cheat, use people, misrepresent myself, always consider how my actions will effect people in the long run–all that kind of stuff. But I never really thought of it as being the Good Girl who will ultimately finish last.
1. Because I never made a concious attempt to be the Good Girl. I just try my best to do whats right BECAUSE its the right thing to do. Not to get anyting in return
2. And because that is ultimately the motivation I never really look at the things that go on in someone else life and said ‘wow how did they get rewarded for being an inconsiderate bitch/self absorbed jackass.’
3. And finally I am not finished yet. My story isnt over and I havent begun to consider the option of no longer fighting for what I want. So I cant even tell you where I will finish.
“1. Because I never made a concious attempt to be the Good Girl. I just try my best to do whats right BECAUSE its the right thing to do. Not to get anyting in return”
*slowly nodding head and pumping fist in approval*
Kudos. It seems like you have one of life’s greatest rewards…a clear conscience.
I never said I havent done anything wrong. I have! But I do make it my business to not knowingly do things I know would adversely impact others. I make and honest effort to do it solely because it is right.
“I dont lie, cheat, use people, misrepresent myself, always consider how my actions will effect people in the long run–all that kind of stuff.”
Of course you can’t go through life without fault, but avoiding the above because it’s the right thing to do should lend to the definition of what makes a guy/girl good.