Actually, Some Men Do Trust Women » VSB

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Actually, Some Men Do Trust Women

Barack and Michelle Obama (Mark Wilson/Getty Images)


Because I’m the type of guy who is prone to document a personal ah-ha moment in a blog post, I appreciated what Damon wrote here the other day on inherently not trusting women; specifically, with their feelings. He wrote:

But you know what I don’t really trust? What I’ve never actually trusted with any women I’ve been with? Her feelings.

If she approaches me pissed about something, my first reaction is “What’s wrong?”

My typical second reaction? Before she even gets the opportunity to tell me what’s wrong? “She’s probably overreacting.”

My typical third reaction? After she expresses what’s wrong? “Ok. I hear what you’re saying, and I’ll help. But whatever you’re upset about probably really isn’t that serious.”

Everything he said made sense, and yet very little of it applied to me, because I actually have never had an issue trusting women in this specific way.

None of this to say I’m a good man, and Damon’s not. I would like to think we’re both good men who just so happen to have different perspectives on this subject, like many men. I’m sure some guys read what Damon wrote and nodded in agreement, but this post is about guys like me who read it and said, “Wait, what? I’ve always trusted women and their feelings.”

I don’t know if men like me, the kind who trusts a woman instinctively, are an anomaly, but I know I’ve been made to feel like one; mostly by other men. Anytime I am in a back and-forth with guys about a gender-specific issue and I take up for women, it’s usually a man who likes to remind me that women are crazy. They like to remind me that women can lie. They like to remind me that women aren’t perfect, as though I’ve never met these women in my own life. Eventually, these men aim for a very specific thing: The masculinity of the defender, as if to say, a man who believes a woman is less of one. And yet, what those guys don’t realize is that I am a man who believes women because I am very fully, 100 percent, a man.

As Damon pointed out, many men have been programmed to think that women be tripping. But the way I was raised, it was men who I saw as being crazy, and it was men I almost did not trust. The people I cared about the most were women and therefore, I was always fearful that a man would take them away from me or a man would hurt them, physically or emotionally. Sure I understood women can be mean and hateful towards other women, but I never feared that a woman would hurt the women in my life.

In high school, my mother, newly single, was dating for the first time in over a decade. I let her go because mama gotta have a life too, right? But I would tell her to call me, to check in with me, and all those things, like I was the parent, and she was the child. I did this not because I didn’t trust her, but because I didn’t trust the man, this included the man who is my step-dad.

Looking back on the year in issues has not helped my trust with men. When catcalling became a topic in the news cycle, many men said women were making too big of a fuss about it, and wanted to point out how many times men were just saying hello in the PSA video that went viral. (Nevermind that the example is never the whole experience, it’s only the experience.) That video, as problematic as it was in how it portrayed men of color, made me think of how many years I’ve been one of those guys who was just saying hello. In the context of the video, I definitely could see how women don’t even want me saying hello to them. Then, I talked to talk to my woman and my mother, two women who live on two opposite sides of the United States. They said they both experience catcalling so often, it’s almost white noise to them, and they also said how the problem with “hello” is that it can often times escalate into something more unwanted. I chose to trust that they weren’t tripping. If anything, seeing how many men on social media were just plain deaf to women who spoke out against catcalling reinforced what I already knew: A lot of men think it’s their right to talk to any woman.

When the Bill Cosby sexual assault allegations blew up in the news, once again, a conversation with a guy I know reminded me that some men, sometimes, really ain’t shit. In a casual conversation we were having about Cosby, he was trying to poke holes in the allegations. When I challenged him on the grounds that if over 15 people say the exact same thing about us, it’s probably true, his retort was so dumb it was smart. “Think about it,” he said. “Cosby has probably slept with hundreds of women, so the number of women who are coming forward doesn’t mean they’re credible when scaled to how many women he’s slept with.” I thought about it after he said it, and decided him and I couldn’t talk about it anymore, so I changed the subject.

On a more personal level, a few weeks ago, my woman was having issues at work with a fellow employee, a guy. It wasn’t anything outlandish like sexual harassment, just a lot of tension and micro-aggressive disrespect of her authority because she was his boss. I would listen to her, and listen to her side of things because it was the only side I had access to. Now, of course, I don’t know exactly what kind of boss my woman is. Maybe she’s the ice queen among her coworkers, but what I chose to believe is that the guy who was giving her so many problems had an issue with authority specifically coming from a woman. I know a lot of men like this, and I know I, at some points in my career, have also been one of them.

When my woman tells me someone is tripping, I don’t ask her or wonder what she did to cause it. The thought doesn’t even occur to me. I’m on her side full stop, until an undeniable reason not to appears right in my face. The way I see it, the alternative – not trusting a woman’s feelings – is what hinders me from lacking empathy, and I don’t ever want to be that guy.

The fact is, women have given me very little reason not to trust them. Meanwhile, because I’m a guy myself, and have been that guy in so many ways, I know better than to trust men instinctively, even myself at times because God is still working on me after all. Also, to be clear, I trust all the men in my life, I wouldn’t be friends with them if I didn’t, but I also fancy those guys in my life as being exceptional men. Men like Damon personify this exceptionalism, but I know while not all men disrespect women, I know many men aren’t exceptional and even if they want to be, it may take some time for them to become so.

At the end of the post, Damon asked somewhat rhetorically, how men like him, who aren’t hardwired to trust a woman’s feelings can be more trustful of women and what they say. I don’t have the answer, but here’s how I am able to take my woman’s side more often than not: I think of the man I used to be, and the many men I know who treat women differently, and sometimes unfairly. When I consider that, trusting my woman is quite easy.

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Jozen Cummings

Jozen Cummings is the author and creator of the popular relationship blog Until I Get Married, which is currently in development for a television series with Warner Bros. He hosts a weekly podcast with WNYC about Empire called the Empire Afterparty and he works at Twitter as an editorial associate. He lives in Harlem, graduated from Howard University, and grew up in Seaside, California. He cannot get you a blue check.

  • Meridian

    Wow. I was gonna complain about a couple things but let me finish dotting my eyes and sh*t…

  • minxbrie

    Whooo boy did I need this because I was beginning to think that men would never trust me.

    I honestly have the hardest time affirming my own feelings and experiences because I’ve been told so many times that I’m just too emotional and dramatic and I never seem to remember anything correctly. Not even just by men but by family and now I’ve gotten into the habit of downplaying everything or just saying nothing at all. And then my family wonders why I don’t talk or share anything… I just can’t be bothered. I feel like I sit at too many intersections to be taken seriously. So I just trust no one because I’m not even used to trusting myself.

    Ironically, I thought I met someone who would actually take me at my word and I think the biggest disappointment was when he wrote me off as crazy…

    • Ralo Tomassi

      Damn, this reminds me of my wife….I STILL right her off as crazy. lmao…smdh

      • minxbrie

        I’m sorry but wha? Like do you want a pat on the back?

      • I wonder why some men call women crazy. Is it just a convenient word to use?

        • OSHH

          yes like the word bitter..convenient and dismissive.

        • “Crazy” is to men what “nice” is to women- a general description of a much larger and nuanced subject they have absolutely ZERO interest in delving into.

          • Heavens2Murgatroid

            Yea, that “nice” is such a mood killer. And when somebody says “oh, he/she is crazy!” I’m always thinking, well why are you with them?

          • #facts. In both cases, they can range from legitimately horrible human beings that, if we allowed Prisoners of War to date them, this country would be accused of War Crimes to “people they just wanna do some f*cksh*t with without any consequences”. I’ve learned to restrict crazy to women who either have diagnosed mental health issues or with enough specific actionable information that I could refer someone to psychiatric help. Past that is just normal people ish.

        • RewindingtonMaximus

          Its an easy stereotype to lump people with. Like Black people = angry. White people = devils.
          Hint of truth there? Of course, but there’s no context. It just groups everyone with no true purpose for explanation.

    • I’m not sure if it is trust issues or if men just don’t give a flying f*ck and don’t want to be bothered with women period.

      I can relate because I met a guy via an online dating site and we started chatting. We introduced ourselves and the conversation seemed to go pretty well. The convo ended, and a few days later, he shot me a message stating that he couldn’t text but wanted me to call him, which I told him I was not comfortable with that just yet. Phone conversations are very intimate for me – I have to be intrigued enough to want a phone convo with you.Something seemed a bit off so I asked if he remembered my name and he said, “no”. So I’m sitting there like, “okay, why would I call you if you don’t even know my name?” He said it wasn’t that serious and that I’m overacting. I really caught offense to that, and he wrote it off as if I was asking the world from him.

      • minxbrie

        On god, it’s like if you show the tiniest hint of emotion towards anything, you get written off as “over-reacting”. I’m not a very emotional person, but if I start to visibly show irritation or that I’m upset, my guys friends will act like I’m about to bring the house down.

        • I am emotional person and lately I’ve avoided showing any emotion because guys take it as over-reacting. I think guys aren’t mentally prepared to deal with a woman’s reaction and our “range” of emotions.

          When it comes to dating I feel like there should be some sort of etiquette on how to treat people, but I guess that’s expecting too much and that’s probably why I suck at dating. I hate when I’ve been disrespected because I expect something like respect and common courtesy to be reciprocated.

          • RewindingtonMaximus

            Not true. Not true at all.
            You are mixing the idea of how you are perceived with your idea of who you are. You can’t expect people who don’t know you well to understand your methods and behaviors. They have to grow into learning that. You should not feel bad about having your emotions and the range they go to. However you should be aware that if you want to share them, you need to understand what kind of person you are talking to, and what their emotional range is like.

            A tuba and a trumpet are two different instruments that create music. They both have high pitches, low pitches, and require blowing air into them for sounds to be produced. Yet the music they produce sound TOTALLY different. So there is no comparison, only the understanding they both provide an equal result; sound. That’s how I view sharing emotions with other people; there’s how it sounds in my head, and how I have to say it out loud in order for somebody to understand what I’m saying. But the result is the same; I said what I had to say.

            I hope that helps.

            • “They have to grow into learning that. You should not feel bad about having your emotions and the range they go to. However you should be aware that if you want to share them, you need to understand what kind of person you are talking to, and what their emotional range is like.” Good point. I can certainly appreciate that. And that is something that I need to work on because I sometimes assume everyone shares this basic knowledge of how to act and treat others.

              • Meridian

                lol. Maybe because it’s such a basic skill you assume everyone does it and is capable of it. Seems perfectly logical to me.

              • RewindingtonMaximus

                Trust me love, nope, nope, and nope. Common sense is not common at all. In fact, its very costly, and that’s why most people don’t have it.

                There’s no basic knowledge to human interaction. Everyone lives their lives through their own eyes, and that means most people live life very selfishly without realizing it. So if you want to connect with people, you have to gauge their standing in life, otherwise you are getting at them for the wrong reasons. They were being who they were supposed to be, while you’re projecting an image of what you expected from them, and are now disappointed they couldn’t live up to the image you had in your head.

                • I’m thinking. I am okay with the connection part and having that understanding. During the get-to-know-you stage, my struggle has always been if I see little to no effort on your part then I shut down. Perhaps it is more about me seeing an effort on your part then I’m comfortable enough with opening myself up to you. I have walls up, which is a problem, I know. I’m a little scared to take the first step….be vulnerable, I guess?

                  • Heavens2Murgatroid

                    Just from my experience and observations, we (men) tend to expect the woman to open up first. It’s so common to us, because our mothers were the first to always show emotion and open up. From being the first to kiss you on your forehead to wake you, hug you as you catch the school bus, kiss, hug and cry at your graduation(s), etc. It’s engrained in US to be spoiled in that capacity. Not to say we shouldn’t nor won’t reciprocate, but we’re oftenly not the initiators

                  • RewindingtonMaximus

                    As a man, bring vulnerable is always super scary. As a person who has been some real fucked up shit, my vulnerability has been my salvation.

                    I can’t tell you how to live, think or feel, but I can share my experiences and hope they give some insight for you. What you fear is being rejected, as do most people. But rejection helps form your understanding of who you really are. How do you know what you can handle, if you avoid dealing with anything difficult?

                    Might I suggest one day standing in front of the mirror naked and staring at yourself. Looking at everything about you and then asking if you’re satisfied with what you see. If no, then that’s the best answer you can possibly have, because you are aware there’s room for improvement but that you also care enough about yourself to be honest above all else. No conversation with any man could possibly be more scarier than having that moment with the mirror.

                • h.h.h.

                  There’s no basic knowledge to human interaction. Everyone lives their lives through their own eyes, and that means most people live life very selfishly without realizing it. So if you want to connect with people, you have to gauge their standing in life, otherwise you are getting at them for the wrong reasons. They were being who they were supposed to be, while you’re projecting an image of what you expected from them, and are now disappointed they couldn’t live up to the image you had in your head.

                  top 5 comment of the year sir.

                  not to get at anyone reading or responding to this, but there are over 7 billion people on this planet, there are 300+ million people in this country, there are 40+million Americans that share our skin colour (more or less)…suffice it to say there is no one size fits all/this is how you act book that is given out at birth

                  people will operate within their own best interest, in whichever way works for them…knowing how I am, i cannot expect anyone to know how to treat me, nor can i use prejudices/bias to interact with someone after initial ‘feeling out’ (we all have prejudices when encountering humans, positive and/or negative-see malcolm gladwell’s blink; however once we get to know someone, we can’t continue using those pre-judgments)

                  • That’s a good way to put it. Honestly, I never looked at it that way. Dope comments all the way around. Thank you for the different perspectives.

                  • RewindingtonMaximus

                    The jutsu is on Legendary Sanin when you’re typing

            • Word. I’ve been amazed by how two people will react to the SAME THING I did in completely different ways. I’m not talking opposites. I’m talking some Calvinball ish. Like “where did they get *that* from??!!” stuff.

              • RewindingtonMaximus

                Because most people never react to something in a situational manner. They react in an overall manner, meaning they perceive an incident as something that has happened multiple times in their life from other people, but because you did it, you’re another name on that list. Rather in your mind, if you only did it once, you expect for them to be understanding with your apology to not do it again.

                • I see you’re thinking, but I’m also including more benign interpretations as well. Lime people will like me because they assume I’m like XYZ which has nothing to do with anything. LOL

        • pls

          we have emotions for a reason and i trust mine. the trouble is learning to identify the correct feeling you are having/why you feel a certain way.

      • RewindingtonMaximus

        In that context, you were another faceless font to text to. Clearly you’re a person, but I guess the notion is everybody is out here talking to multiple people at once, and we’re all doing the same thing. No one would really understand why a phone call is more intimate to you, when it is one of the most impersonal things people usually do.
        He had no way to see your individuality. Hence why he did what he did. Not a good excuse, but something to think about, because he’s not the last guy you’re going to have this issue with.

        • I can understand that. In this case, it shows how different we all are.
          Texting for me is impersonal because it takes less effort to do, takes
          less time, and doesn’t provide any connection. Whereas, a phone convo requires more effort, is more intimate, and I like to engage with the person…That’s just me tho.

      • As a guy, if I see that a woman answered a question like you did, my thought is to subtract…delete that number. In the get-to-know-you stage, if you’re pouring out your emotions like that, at a point where Chris Rock says you’re meeting someone’s “representative”, I’m taking it as a sign to do the dip. I’m not walking down that road with someone who is barely not a stranger.

        • Help me see your point, Todd. @RewindingtonMaximus:disqus did help with me understanding, but I guess what I am still stuck on is if we meet online, kick off conversation and if we pick up the conversation later and you don’t know my name, then I chalk it up as a waste of time and lack of effort. To me, names are important, especially during that get-to-know-you stage. If you can’t remember my name then you clearly aren’t interested.

          • Here is why I would pull the plug. Personally, I try to give people a fair break when getting to know me. I don’t expect them to get all of my quirks, and I have no issue explaining yourself. If you’re going get upset over something on real level, that doesn’t bode well for the future. Perhaps you could be better than that. However, life is short, and I only have such time to use.

            • TeeChantel

              That’s something I struggle because I don’t give people a fair chance to get to know me. If it is coming from the opposite sex then that is a valid.

            • I don’t give people that fair break. If you can’t get me, then I move on. I can be rather difficult partly because I believe ppl lack the effort in getting to know someone. …. but its a valid assessment tho and thank you for that. Something I need to work on.

          • RewindingtonMaximus

            I could share my life story with you today and forget your name tomorrow. Does not mean I forgot who you were, but your name isn’t what was important to me. The connection I made with you was.

            • my name is my name, rewind. it carries import. :)

              • RewindingtonMaximus

                So does your smile

            • Kema

              I’m with you… I’m not a name person.

              • KEMA! LTNS! :)

            • IminlovewithCoCo

              Co-signing on this as I am habitually terrible with names but personalities resonate with me like a tatoo.

              • RewindingtonMaximus

                Word, I’ve weaseled my way into making people tell me their names so often cause I can’t remember a damn thing, but if they gave me a good convo, I’d never forget that nor their face

            • LMNOP

              Good point. I was reading through this thinking “rewind always has some good advice” which is true even if rewindington maximus is not actually on your birth certificate.

              • RewindingtonMaximus

                Ha. Thank you my dear. Well I’m sure LMNOP isn’t on your birth certificate but that’s never stopped you from being really cool to talk to .
                BUT….you can call me by my regular name if you’d like. Joel.

                • LMNOP

                  And not that it matters anymore, but that actually proves the point even more, because I DID know that your name was Joel, I remember you and the other Joel talking about it. But I guess that’s not what stuck. And I’m Katie.

                  • RewindingtonMaximus

                    Glad to finally say hello the proper way Katie

    • RewindingtonMaximus

      No disrespect, but don’t ever let people force you to downplay your emotions. You will just end up emotionally stunted in your later years. Also, I don’t know how you speak about things you’re feeling, but clearly if everyone is emphasizing you’re doing too much, there might be a hint of truth to it. However, that’s a maturity thing if nothing else. It took a long time for me to realize how I express my emotions isn’t just based on how it sounds in my head, but the audience I have when telling my story. Everything is about interpretation, and people will not usually understand what you’re saying, if you don’t use a personal filter for them.

      • minxbrie

        Listen, I’m the first to say if I’ve done too much; I spend a lot of time policing my behavior because I get that I dIdnt have a very typical upbringing and I used to act out a lot in my teens because of it so I had to re-learn how to communicate without getting angry or lashing out. (Btw I’m in my 20s don’t let the baby face fool you) However, if I’m talking or attempting to open up to someone and they appear to be shutting me down after I have very carefully chosen my words, there is nothing else I can do but just not talk. I explain where I’m coming from, I take responsibility for my ish but I don’t appreciate when people just assume because my experiences have been messy that I’m stretching the truth for sympathy since if you’re someone who knows me, you know I really hate being pitied or throwing my burdens on others.

        Ex. My mom used to leave me in the evenings when I was a kid in LA to attend work events or go on dates. I was 9, I remember it happening because it went on straight through my teens. She says it never happened. My dude tries to tell me my mother would never leave her visitng child alone.

        I’m sorry, but it happened, I know it happened, I remember it happening and when I’m told I don’t know what I’m talking about, that’s offensive to not only me but incredibly hurtful because now it looks like I’m being a drama queen when in reality, I’m trying to explain why I get edgy around my parents and just because YOU grew up with more stable parents does not mean I went through the same thing. Like, don’t ask me questions you don’t want honest answers to because I’m tired of being told I’m wrong.

        • RewindingtonMaximus

          I got you.

          So from a f*cked up background to another, lemme preach to you for a second;

          I will say this one last time. You need to know your audience. You are a unique person. There is an inherent responsibility in being unique, in mainly that you need to see truthfully MOST PEOPLE you meet in life are not unique at all, and will never understand your way of life. NEVER.

          People like us have a habit of thinking people are people. We are all the same, so eventually someone will get our side of the story. No. Not at all. There are the sheep, and there are the shepherds. We are shepherds. Shepherds don’t talk to sheep, they make sheep listen to them and follow them. Ergo, you need to learn in your lifetime, how to gauge personalities, and determine which ones fit your personality. That’s the only way you’re going to find the peace you’re looking for.

          You put in hard work darling. You just been hustling backwards. Figure out how to turn that around, and you’ll meet someone like me who would have heard your story, empathized, told you my story, and we both would have come to the conclusion that “ok, we’re kinda f*cked up but we won’t be forever, this will just take some time”.

          • Meridian

            lol. I was lowkey getting heated but this is really sound advice. People who have been through things have a hard time relating to the acceptable norm, and people who act within the acceptable norm have a hard time recognizing the extensive process it takes to recover from said experiences. It sucks to realize that because you assume people would naturally be open to your healing just as you are open to sharing your need for support. You think people know how to handle the edginess and sometimes they do. Those are the people you hold on to.

            • RewindingtonMaximus

              Exactly. We are not all built alike for a reason, so you have to find what works best for you.

          • NomadaNare

            I don’t know if I agree with the fundamental tenant of your advice. I wouldn’t necessarily say that some people are sheep and others are shepherds. I would say that in almost every case if you want someone to understand you need to meet them where they are. At the end of the day we are learned adaptations/weighted reactions to the sum total of all of our experiences. Some people have similar experiences to other people and others have less universal experiences. In all cases if you want to be understood, you must first seek to understand motivations, incentives, wants, dreams, desires, etc. and move from there. I’ve used this to my advantage more times than I can count. The only people that I have conflicts in communication are those in which I fundamentally refuse to meet them where they are because of the compromise it would represent within myself.

            Edit: after reading more of what you’ve written down stream, I think we agree. But then where does this analysis fit in with your later statements?

            • Epsilonicus

              ” In all cases if you want to be understood, you must first seek to understand motivations, incentives, wants, dreams, desires, etc. and move from there.”

              *nods in agreement*

              • Meridian


                “Before I make this easily understood expression, let me first consider the listener’s hopes and dreams.”

                Considering if your audience will be receptive to your message is one thing, but to suggest every time you make a statement you have to first consider all this about the person you’re speaking to just sounds like a breeding ground for insecurity. I don’t even disagree. I think it’s smart to know who you’re speaking to and to know who to speak to about what, to have that in mind when you share things. I don’t think that’s an appropriate thing to stress to someone who just said “the people who are supposed to care about me pretend nothing happened and that I’m crazy for being affected”.

                Being understood doesn’t hinge on her, it’s on the people she’s speaking to and their willingness to hear her out.

            • RewindingtonMaximus

              The sheep/Shepard bit is based on my notion that some people are just more astute than others. We see things others dont, acquire knowledge quicker, and press forward while others lag behind. I usually see these as the qualities of leaders and unique individuals. Ergo, while we all have to meet others half way in order for our opinions to be heard, having our opinions understood is another beast altogether if most of the people around us just are not on the same plane of understanding as we are.

              Simply put, what’s a kindergartener going to teach a Mensah graduate? Nothing. But vice versa? Sky is the limit.

  • *grabs popcorn and waits for female comments*

    • Sigma_Since 93

      *pulls out tupperware bowl from desk, takes some popcorn, offers up some apple cider, and sits next to @cedmond422:disqus *

      • h.h.h.

        *leaves some chips and jack daniels at the sharing table, sits in the ‘quiet men’ section and does fantasy football research*

      • Freebird

        *gives sigma dap. ced too and pulls out a bottle of scotch *

        • Sigma_Since 93

          *takes sip and daps Freebird for picking up quality scotch*

          • Somewhere in Rohan

            * laughs at the scotch and brings in a pitcher of home made moonshine *

            • Angel Baby

              LMAO SMH

            • Meridian

              LOL. I want some of that.

            • RewindingtonMaximus

              My glass is empty. Why?

              • Somewhere in Rohan

                Cos you have to sign a release clause first..if you die it aint on me lmao

                • RewindingtonMaximus

                  Fuck a release form. If I die, my liver went out in a blaze of glory. That makes you a hero

    • Meridian

      *lays out in thread, works on my tan, and gives my mouth the day off*

  • Freebird

    Discussions around exceptionalism and “good” or “bad” men aside this feels about right, according to my world and the women who are a part of it. Thanks for posting

  • Val

    You LET your mom go out on a date? What does that mean?


      • Val

        Well, so far I’ve only heard three cuts. They’re okay but the music all sounds the same. Almost like they used the same music for each track with different vocals. The music is nice though. It’s funky. You?

        • It’s perfect. If you ain’t hear the entire album in context you ain’t hear nothing.

    • Aly

      That’s the part that stuck out to me the most for some reason lol. I was like, “let”?? Ok.

      • Val

        I read that part like 3 times thinking I must have missed something. Lol

    • camilleblu

      i get what he is saying. i think he just meant that he was/is protective of his mom. like, of course he couldn’t literally stop her from dating, but he *let* her date without giving her too much of a hassle – aside from constant phone calls. boys can be that way. just a couple of days ago my sons told me they don’t want me to have a boyfriend, and that they would have *a lot* of questions for whomever i choose to fill that role, lol. i told them that i thought that was great, and they absolutely should have questions for this person that will be around their mom.

      • Rachmo

        Lissen EYE would not want to be interrogated by your sons…NOAP

        • Val

          Hiya, Rach!


          • Rachmo

            Hey Val

            *stares at brow*

            • Somewhere in Rohan

              Last post of the year shes putting up a full facial. She did it once,shes a dish.

        • camilleblu


          #lissen..just put on some slightly ratchet music and you will be alright with c-money.

          • Rachmo

            Just cue up “Bandz” and ignore your death glare.

        • Sigma_Since 93

          Any son. My boys be looking at any dude whose eyes linger a little too long when I’m not around like ninja what you want????

          I’m so proud of ’em!

          • Rachmo

            Bae isn’t even cool with guys looking at my younger sister. C*ckblocks like they were blood.

      • Val

        Okay, gotcha. He should have put parenthesis around “let” so we would have know it wasn’t literal.

        • BreezyX2

          Where is Huny (little h) when you need her to police these post?!?

      • And ish like this is why it will be a long time coming…until my daughter gets a stepmom. LOL

    • ChiChi

      I didn’t have a problem with Jozen using the word “let” in this particular instance. I took it as: numerous kids take issue with a parent reentering the dating scene (for various reasons). I’ve known parents of kids who turned down dates because there child did not seem ready for this new stage-whether I think that’s right or not is neither here nor there-and if that was what he knew his mom would do for him seeing as how he clearly had trust issues, “let” would be an applicable word.

    • RewindingtonMaximus

      Boys are usually the men of the house when there are no men. Mother/son relationships tend to bond in a very specific direction when mothers are single, and give extra attention to their sons. So boys will be protective of their moms in some way, and mothers will be very protective of their sons when he is of dating age.

      • Sigma_Since 93

        See Chris Brown and LeBron James

        • RewindingtonMaximus


        • Sigh…so right, yet so wrong. LOL While LeBron James is a functional adult despite the tomfoolery of his youth, there is Chris Brown…

      • Epsilonicus

        ” Mother/son relationships tend to bond in a very specific direction when mothers are single, and give extra attention to their sons”

        I have family members who do not get this concept.

    • Perhaps a bad choice of words here, but one of my friends would protest whenever his mother would go out on a date. I, on the other hand, never protested it. I just wanted to make sure she was safe.

  • This reads like a 2011 Malik post.

    • Aly

      In what way?

      • The good ol days where you could argue I was panty pandering in some discussions regarding women. Not that I was or that I’m saying Jozen is that’s just my initial reaction. It’s the whole “I pride myself on my healthy relationships with women” thing. Which there could be more of among men.

        • Somewhere in Rohan

          Fun times

        • T.Q. Fuego

          I also pride myself on my healthy relationships with women. We just differ one what constitutes a “healthy relationship with women”. Most of the ones I know in real life appreciate a dude who respectfully challenges them to expand their interpretations of reality rather than just patting them on the back and co-signing their views while calling it “trust”. You’ve gotten significantly better about that though to be fair.

          • I never heard of pandering until I got here, so maybe I’ve always been pandered to. What are the rules for this pandering? Does one have to be available for pannies in order to pander?

            • BreezyX2

              *looks around for Malik and scream across the e-room* Please handle this question. Love you mean it!!

              • *pokes tongue into cheek*

            • T.Q. Fuego

              It’s just a synonym for brownnosing. To curry favor from any one demographic is pandering. It doesn’t even have to be between men and women. It also has nothing to do with wanting to smash, even though a lot of men take this approach when trying to get laid (I’m not saying the author panders for p*ssy in real life though. I don’t know him in real life).

              • *tee-hee* I knew what pandering meant in connotation, but I had never heard it leveled at men for talking about women a certain way. I do wonder, though; if a man isn’t trying to get laid, what would be the purpose for pandering?

                (and thank you for humoring me.)

                • T.Q. Fuego

                  I think it becomes a habit for the men who do it, but if he’s not pandering maybe he legitimately does relate to and trust the feminine perspective more than the masculine one. Maybe it’s like he said and his experiences and his interpretations of those experiences have just left him prejudice towards men and biased towards women… I personally think he’s a prime target for both deliberate and unintentional manipulation, but my opinion has no bearing on his life luckily. That type of bias usually makes people (both men and women) more vulnerable to it

          • In retrospect I was pretty bad at times Panama called me out on it. But I like to think it had a positive impact on the community. Not to speak too much of myself but I do feel there’s a difference in how most men here comment now as opposed to when I first started.

    • Again, who is this Malik person!?

    • Well, it’s good to meet you Malik.

  • Royale W. Cheese

    The only thing that bothers me about this discussion is how this appears to be yet another example of assigning gender (male) to rationality. Genderlessly speaking, rational people tend to downplay emotional peoples’ reactions. The same thing happens quite often between my husband and I, but I’m the one who accuses him (in my mind) of overreacting. I trust facts more than theatrics. It might also be my being jaded. Instances when I reacted to emotions…I was left feeling conned, lied to, betrayed, and annoyed. I am reluctant to repeat that.

    • CHURCH!

    • RewindingtonMaximus

      Trust facts more than theatrics.
      T-shirt time.

      • Epsilonicus

        Agreed! The theatrics can definitely blind you

    • But when should you ever trust emotion period though?

      An emotion is an instinctual reaction to something, whereas rationality is a process of exercising thought, which is what helps you understand whether something is true or false.

      It’s perfectly fine if someone feels emotional about something: that’s their personal reaction to that event, but the idea that because your emotions do not agree with theirs, due to the fact that you choose to think that it somehow implies a sense of coldness, being jaded, or distant, means that reason should always bow to passion in a relationship, or to put it more bluntly that narcissism is a right when you’re in a relationship. Either way it all originates from a sense of entitlement, that a person’s feelings has priority over another person’s thinking. No friendship could survive such a bond, it’s amazing how many people think a marriage or a relationship should.

      • esa

        ~ But when should you ever trust emotion period though?

        i trust emotion when expressed by any animal on this earth. one of my clients has a dog that has just gone through a 6 week PTSD episode. that taught me a lot about how much power emotion has over quality of life.

        in order to understand character, i evaluate an emotional reaction as a facet or expression of it. when i can separate my empathic response (which can be overwhelming for me), i find that what i am left with is very intimate exposure to a person’s psyche, and in many cases traces of wounds i dont know a thing about. so i find that a person expressing emotion is very revealing, many times in ways that they themselves may not be aware of.

        i say, trust emotion, not as the whole truth, but as a means to understanding the individual. emotion can lead one to see an individuals strengths—and shortcomings, as well as provide insight into deeper, unresolved conflicts.

        • But your comment actually proves my point.

          Everything you just wrote involves “thinking.” The ability to “understand” any emotion, requires the capability to think and evaluate it, which requires the usage of the mind. Even the discovery of meaning, requires “thought.” So to trust or not trust something, you first have to think about it. Wanting someone to share or listen to your emotions, is pretty much saying that a person shouldn’t understand them, because the only way they are going to understand them is if they think about them.

          • esa

            nahh. we cant be agreeing. (giggle). i was answering your question: But when should you ever trust emotion period though?

            i’m saying, always trust it as an expression of character. it’s a facet, and the more complex a person, the more facets there are, and as a result an individual’s emotional expression can be inconsistent, contradictory, and wildly peculiar.

            i’m saying trust all of that mess, because from it you will learn. not trust that it is in accordance with objective reality, but that it is coming from a primal, visceral place where the person expressing emotion is showing their cards, as much to their credit as to their discredit.

            i’m not saying trust it because you thought about it first. i am saying, trust it to give you food for thought.

            ~ Wanting someone to share or listen to your emotions, and understand them, without thinking about them (which usually begins with doubt) is to want something that isn’t really possible.

            to the narcissist, this is very possible, and in fact, very much standard operating procedure. it’s the way i used to deal with people. i kinda had it that everyone was the audience, and i was the act.

            • “i’m saying trust all of that mess, because from it you will
              learn. not trust that it is in accordance with objective reality, but
              that it is coming from a primal, visceral place where the person
              expressing emotion is showing their cards, as much to their credit as
              to their discredit.”

              I don’t get this, care to give a concrete or applicable example.

              • esa

                yea that was a convoluted sentence. what i am talking about is Malcolm Gladwell’s premise of “Blink”

                that the mess of emotions revealed will later (upon reflection) give you a lot of information you can consider as paths to understanding the individual who expressed them.

                you know, i cant give a concrete example tho. ehh. let me overreact to something and circle back.

  • Lyd

    Great, great, great read!

  • MrsT
    • MrsT

      Oh and good post Jozen, the link I posted just shows most men don’t even try to “not be that guy.”

  • There’s something in both of your articles that I think are fundamentally wrong, and the more and more I think about it, this is what I’ve concluded:

    You’re substituting bias for trust, which is coming about because you’re both under the presumption that a bias towards your gender is due to programming, but a bias towards the female gender is some how due to reality and or experience. The idea that a group of people’s beliefs or customs is nothing but a result of programming (thought, experience, testing, reason had nothing to do with), is actually a bias that we take for granted today, especially among those educated in the social sciences – it’s become a culture onto itself, that never goes challenged or questioned; it’s mostly a bias based on a certain level of contempt when you think about it.

    A bias towards ones family members or friends is rational. If you have a brother you love, or a best male friend who gets accused of rape, you’d require a certain amount of evidence to overcome your bias, and accept that your friend/brother is a rapist. If your sister, mother or daughter got accused of falsely accusing someone of rape, you’d require a tremendous amount of evidence to believe that they actually did falsely accuse someone of rape. And that bias wouldn’t change, regardless of the stats you hear, because stats are completely useless when dealing with actions of individuals, and making judgements about them. That being said, a bias at the end of the day isn’t the same thing as what is true, regardless of how strong it is, or how much belief one has due to it.

    But this all ends up being circular when you presume that one bias can be noble, and the other can be oppressive. A bias is a bias either way.

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