Dating, Relationships, & Sex, Race & Politics, Theory & Essay

A Gender Role Bending Christmas

***And, just in case anyone doubts the validity of the engagement scene from the video, I’d like to share a quick synopsis of every conversation my fiancee (BTW, it still feels funny typing “my fiancee.” Admittedly, it might just feel funny because I just might still be compelled to type “the Gay Reindeer” when writing about her.) and I have had with our friends since our engagement***

“Her”

Her: “So…I’m ENGAGED!!!”

Friend: “AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!”

Her and Friend together: “AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!”

***5 minutes later***

Her and Friend together: “AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!”

***10 minutes later***

Friend: “OMG, that ring! Did he have help? Tell me you helped him pick it out. Bitch, you helped him. You had to help him. Right? He couldn’t have picked that by himself. You helped him! You had to help him. He had help, and this help was from you, right? There’s no f*cking way you didn’t help him. But, if you didn’t help him…wait, nevermind. I won’t even f*ckng go there. You helped him. You had to help him. Help was had by him and it was offered by you, right?”

Her: “ ….yea. I helped him. A little. But I helped.”

Friend: “I knew it!!! You helped him!!! OMG, the ring is so perfect for you and like, for the Earth. It’s Earth perfect. If the sun and the stars had a baby, and that baby knew how to make guacamole, it would totally be that ring.” 

Her: “Thank you!!! That’s exactly what I was thinking!!! Exactly!!!”

Friend: “So how did he do it? I need details. Where? When? Why? How? Did he write something? I could see him writing something. Like a vow. Not a wedding vow. But an engagement vow. And having you find it on a tree outside your house. And giving you clues all day by saying stuff like ‘You should look outside the box more often’ and you not even knowing they were clues until after you saw the tree. Did he carve the engagement vows with a knife? What kind of knife was it. OMG! OMG! OMG! Did he get it from Williams Sonama? Cause that would have been soooo romantic. And they were having a sale last week.” 

“Me”

Me: “So yeah, I’m engaged and shit now.”

Friend: “Word?”

Me: “Word.”

Friend: “Congrats, man.”

Me: “Thanks.”

Friend: “What her friends look like?”

Me: “They aiight, I guess.”

Friend: “They f*ckin?”

Me: “Which one?”

Friend: “Any.”

Me: “I guess.”

Friend: “Aiight. I’ll come to the wedding, then.”

Me: “N*gga, aint you married?”

Friend: “Yea. And faithful too.”

Me: “So why you asking me about single chicks?”

Friend: “I prefer to fantasize about the ones who I know are f*cking. Makes it more real.”

Me: “That doesn’t make any sense.”

Friend: “It will after you’ve been married five years.

—Damon Young (aka “The Champ”)

Damon Young

Damon Young is the editor-in-chief of VSB. He is also a contributing editor for EBONY.com. He resides in Pittsburgh, and he really likes pancakes.

  • http://www.WordsDontDoItJustice.com/ Ruthless Wonder

    As the Best Man and only single person let alone groomsmen in my friend’s wedding this was surreal to read.

  • Msdebbs

    1. Your friend is a perv
    2. I’ve had many conversations with my friends just like your fiancee when they got engaged.

  • Sahel

    This was a crazy convo

  • Sigma_Since 93

    The whole “he got help” with selecting the ring has always rubbed me wrong. It always seems like men are made to be these helpless creatures who sit at the end of the bed waiting for their women to put their outfits together. Ladies please consider this, the media inundates us men the subliminal message of if you ain’t buying her diamonds in some capacity you ain’t sit. Combine that with the heavy handed hints some ladies drop and men have all the information we need to make a decent purchase.

    • http://daratmathis.wordpress.com/ dtafakari

      I would like to playfully disagree. Dropping hints about diamonds (for me) was hard, because my wedding ring is the only official jewelry I own. I knew nothing about cuts or carats. I’m more of a wooden earring type girl. So, absolutely, I went to the store to help my husband pick my ring out. I choose three favorites and he picked the final one. And because my idea of his love for me wasn’t tied up in De Beers, we choose a ring he was able to pay off within six months. I ain’t about that needless debt life. He wasn’t helpless, no, but he appreciated the help. lol.

      • Sigma_Since 93

        “my idea of his love for me wasn’t tied up in De Beers”

        “I ain’t about that needless debt life.”

        I need you go out on the road with Sister Souljah on a Nationwide tour and preach to your sisters. Too many womenfolk lose themselves for 2.5 seconds getting caught up in fulfilling a fantasy image of what a ring and a wedding are supposed to look like and forget about the marriage part.

        • http://daratmathis.wordpress.com/ dtafakari

          Beyond even that…it made no sense to me to require him to sell an arm and leg for a ring, and we’d be married w/in 10 months. Most people don’t have a ring paid in cash during the engagement. Technically, you’re setting yourself up to start marriage with a pile of avoidable bills (ring and wedding), just for the sake of…pretty? naaahhh. I wanted a house down payment more. lol

          • Sahel

            Diamonds are forever,they won’t leave in the night have no fear that they might leaveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

          • Sigma_Since 93

            Tell your husband he’s got a keeper!

            • http://daratmathis.wordpress.com/ dtafakari

              lol. sometimes he wishes I weren’t so hardcore. I am ruthless with money management.

              • Jay Ess

                Tell me you have younger sisters, cousins, or have started a rag tag group of young women (18-25) who you have instilled your money management values into…

                • http://daratmathis.wordpress.com/ dtafakari

                  I share my values with anybody who asks. My girls stay asking me to help them budget and I love to do it. It’s #TeamFinanciallySavvy and I’m bringing everybody with me. I’m getting them all right for somebody lucky lol

          • SuperStrings

            “I wanted a house down payment more. ”
            You could make one of those paper rings out of the deed to your house and show that off. lol

        • 321mena123

          I don’t even want a diamond. Seriously. Sapphires are prettier to me and fit me and my personality much better. Also dropping anything over a certain amount for a piece of jewelry won’t sit very well with me.

          • Kozy

            interesting. What do sapphires say that diamonds don’t?

            • 321mena123

              That you know me well enough to understand that i don’t want a diamond. :-) The color is beautiful in my opinion and pops when it is surrounded by little diamonds. You can get a nice sapphire ring with a silver band for 2k or less. Also, a guy that spends over 3k for a piece of jewelry for me doesn’t know me at all. In fact, buying me jewelry doesn’t get you anywhere than me thinking “he should have given me a gift card.” You just need to know your audience on these things.

              • http://daratmathis.wordpress.com/ dtafakari

                i agree that it’s all about who you’re with. Some people will take anything less than a carat as an insult.

                • 321mena123

                  Who downvoted me? DANG!!!

                  • http://daratmathis.wordpress.com/ dtafakari

                    The De Beers spy. lol.

                    • 321mena123

                      I guess. LOL.

                • SuperStrings

                  A man wants his girl/wife to have the best, until she puts a requirement and a number on what the best is supposed to be.

                  • http://daratmathis.wordpress.com/ dtafakari

                    The best is HIGHLY subjective, we both know this. lol. The best is “The best I want to afford.”

                    • SuperStrings

                      This true. I’m talking about the line between appreciation and entitlement though. Say a husband wants to make breakfast for his wife every Saturday and enjoys doing so. The quickest way to sap that enjoyment is to make it an expectation that’s non negotiable.

                    • http://daratmathis.wordpress.com/ dtafakari

                      speak on it. It sucks ALL the fun/love out of it when you got somebody coming at you with, “Where’s my ___________ at?! You ain’t done the _____ yet??” -_-

              • Sahel

                Deus ex machina

              • veryaveragebrotha

                “In fact, buying me jewelry doesn’t get you anywhere than me thinking “he should have given me a gift card.”

                …..

                In fact, buying me jewelry I don’t like doesn’t get you anywhere than me thinking “he should have given me a gift card.”

                There, I fixed that for you. ( a sapphire is jewelry)

                • 321mena123

                  I don’t know why you are in your feelings today but do you.

                  Pick a woman who doesn’t want a ring. It’s that simple. I promise you it is.

                  • To’Mas Que Fuego

                    Doesn’t sound like he’s in his feelings to me. I don’t care one way or the other about your choices in wedding rings, but I agreed with his correction. It’s not even a bad thing, he just made the statement more accurate (based on what you already admitted upthread)

                    • 321mena123

                      Nah, dude is in his feelings. He brought it up twice and i got it the first time.

                      Like i stated to him, he should pick a partner that doesn’t care about a ring.

                    • To’Mas Que Fuego

                      I mean, I think he’s sorta pickin on you a lil bit (since you weren’t talking to him before), but I did notice the same thing he pointed out, I just chose not to say it (again, neither of us said it was a bad thing). U sure you not projecting a bit (about the whole feelings thing)? I felt more emotion coming off the screen when I read your comment than his…

                    • 321mena123

                      I think it’s in the way that you read things. The fact that he felt the need to reword my comment to fit his own projection is why i said about him being in his feelings. That irritated me and my irritation showed. My thing is, we can all disagree and you and I can go back and forth since we have been e-conversing for over a year now so i know when you are picking or being a jerk :-). I don’t know this guy from Adam so for him to project onto me about a ring and then change my wording to fit his own feelings says something. My opinion.

                    • To’Mas Que Fuego

                      Sigh…aite I’m through fightin his battle. I still don’t think he was in his feelings, but it’s really not important enough for me to continue. I think he just noticed wording in your phrase that he thought was inaccurate, but we’re all entitled to an opinion.

                    • 321mena123

                      LOL. There was no battle to fight. :-)

                    • SuperStrings

                      “Sigh…aite I’m through fightin his battle.”
                      Annnnnnnnnd this his how most of those wedding decisions go.

                    • To’Mas Que Fuego

                      Lmao! Bruh…that’s how most conflicts within a MARRIAGE go lol. I’d put up more of a fight if Mena was my wife though. I wouldn’t let her wear me down from fatigue. (Not for the first decade at least lol)

          • http://daratmathis.wordpress.com/ dtafakari

            my bestie chose pearls as her wedding ring. I rather like the idea.

            • Rachmo

              Black pearl rings are beautiful.

          • Rachmo

            we are >>here<< I LOVE sapphires and think they are so beautiful. And although I do appreciate others' beautiful diamond rings the markup never sat well with me.

            • Sigma_Since 93

              I was at a dinner party this weekend and one of the couples shared a story of a friend they have who’s engaged and won’t wear her engagement ring. The kicker is that she picked out the ring. I know dude is thinking I’m still paying a mint for this ring that you picked out and you won’t wear it!! I know dude wanted to say something like this:

              • camilleblue

                Sigma…why won’t she wear the ring?

                • Sigma_Since 93

                  I guess it’s ring envy. The story was she picked out an emerald ring with diamonds around it and all of her girls got diamond engagement rings. I guess she felt her ring was inadequate.

                  • 321mena123

                    And he still wants to marry her? See, yall get yourselves caught.

                    • Joel

                      Yeah, someone picking out a ring they wanted and then not wearing it because it isn’t as good as someone else’s ring is asinine.

                    • 321mena123

                      It’s disrespectful.

                    • Joel

                      I agree. She could take that ring and go shove it up her behind.

                    • 321mena123

                      You better take that ring back and get your money!!

                    • Joel

                      If she’s the kind of person that picks out a ring and then doesn’t wear it, I presume asking for it back would only cause more issues.

                  • http://daratmathis.wordpress.com/ dtafakari

                    see now, that ain’t right. I saw a documentary on how there was a concerted effort by diamond miners to make the US view diamond rings as the default wedding/engagement ring. We’ve been snookered.

                    • Sigma_Since 93

                      Yes Lawd!!!

                  • camilleblue

                    Really? And he doesn’t see that as a big azz red flag? Cause I sure the hale would.

                    • Rachmo

                      Right I’d be like…girl let me take that back and just wear a wedding band.

                    • Sigma_Since 93

                      Like Puff Daddy said in Hate Me Know ‘What the f Imma do now” It’s not like he can take the ring back to Kay and get his money back. This is why I have a problem with the hype around the ring. If the ring is an extension of my love and you love the ring in private and hate it in public, does it mean that you also reject me???

                    • Rachmo

                      I would be some kind of freaking salty if I were him. Like for real but I’m sure they’ll get past it.

                    • 321mena123

                      In a way yes. Who does that? Triflin @$$ heifer.

                    • afronica

                      Wish I could upvote your comment twice. He better run!

                    • SuperStrings

                      @Aly’s addendum to VSB blogging says you can log out and sign in as a guest in order to upvote more than once.

                    • afronica

                      Yeah, but I’m not about stuffing the ballot box. #noScandal

                  • Rachmo

                    …what? I have some friends with huge rocks and I love to look at them like I like to look at all pretty things. But…that’s about it. Also her ring sounds dope.

                • 321mena123

                  CAMILLE!!! Hey girl hey!

                  • camilleblue

                    Lol…hey Mena hey!

                    • Sahel

                      What,i don’t get a hello

              • Rachmo

                Wait what? Then why not just get a wedding band and call it a day?

            • 321mena123

              That’s what i am saying!!! Sapphires are gorgeous. I love blue and it is my birth stone. Win, win in my book.

          • Sahel

            Lol,i only see these thought lines from women on VSB.

            • Rachmo

              In my group of about 20 people in couples I think there are three sapphire rings so far.

            • http://daratmathis.wordpress.com/ dtafakari

              that’s because we don’t really exist… lol

              • Sahel

                Unicorns du jure

            • Joel

              I was thinking the same thing. lol

              • Sahel

                Man,fiscally responsible,hating make up,beer drinkers,its amazing

                • Kozy

                  and real. met one this weekend.

                  • Sahel

                    Mazel tov

                  • To’Mas Que Fuego

                    Play on playa. (brushes Kozy’s shoulder off)

                  • Yoles

                    ok so NO ONE is gonna ask who you met??? i will
                    and i will add that this is no place for secrecy you shouldn’t have said nan if you didn’t want nosy yolie to be all up in it!!!!!!!!!!!

                    my money is on @B sweet
                    or @afronica:disqus

                    • Kozy

                      I didn’t mean a VSS this weekend. just a young lady who fit the above description.

                    • Yoles

                      oh ok… well there goes my dreams of our future love… best wishes with her!!

                      *runs away sobbing

                    • Rachmo

                      Hahaha

                    • Kozy

                      lolol She took MY number. so this all may very well be a short story with a sad ending

                    • Yoles

                      still theres hope for me yet might turn out good… did she kick it… oh please tell me how that went… are we supposed to walk up to a dude like.. i need to know….

                      Her: excuse me cutie
                      Him: yea
                      Her: i saw you across the room and could not leave without speaking to you
                      Him: oh really? (small smile)
                      Her: yes really so what is your name sweetness
                      Him: it isn’t sweetness, its Dude
                      Her: Dude, thats a pretty name, it fits you
                      Him: thank you
                      Her: well I’m not gonna hold you up the whole night so can i get your number
                      Him: ok 555-555-5555
                      Her: talk to you later handsome

                    • Kozy

                      I was in a group. and it seemed the fact that a moderately to somewhat attractive lady in said group brought me to her attention, however indirectly. (shoutout to @Rachmo)
                      the way it was told to me, after a brief consultation/peptalk with her own group, she found a “window” and made the approach. we talked about beer, Beyoncé, dancing and then her group had to unexpectedly bounce. she got my info on the way out.

                    • Yoles

                      sounds cute… best wishes

                • Joel

                  I know, right? It goes against a lot of what I believe to be true out here in the world.

                  • 321mena123

                    We are real. The way i am online is the way i am offline. Had a similar conversation with friends over brunch this weekend.

                    • Joel

                      Nothing wrong with that. I’d like to meet a woman that proves at least some of what I believe to be wrong…and is actually on the market. Every woman I know that seems to be close is either unavailable or not checking for me….lol

                    • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

                      ~ I’d like to meet a woman that proves at least some of what I believe to be wrong…

                      wouldnt it be easier to remove your limiting beliefs instead ?

                    • Joel

                      In order to remove some of those beliefs, we’d have to go back in time and re-write history. Since we can’t do that….

                    • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

                      this is a choice, and a limiting one. you can hold on to it, or you can let it go. one choice will empower you, the other will limit your potential.

                    • Sahel

                      Like the red or blue pills in the Matrix

                    • Joel

                      Trust me, I’m aware of all of this. It’s a hard line to walk between giving up my beliefs based on real life evidence and believing in the unknown and the unproven.

                    • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

                      i know it is not easy, but nothing worth having ever is. i prefer to live into new possibility than to repeat the failures of the past.

                    • Joel

                      Agreed. My line of thinking doesn’t promote repeated failure. It’s what I use so that I won’t put myself in the same situation with the same types of people more than once.

                    • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

                      ~ My line of thinking doesn’t promote repeated failure.

                      forgive me, but i dont understand how is this true when you also believe, “I’d like to meet a woman that proves at least some of what I believe to be wrong…” ?

                    • Joel

                      No problem. I’ll explain. I don’t get too far involved with any situations (people) that have the potential to end poorly. I am pretty good at cutting folks off if I feel like it’s not going to work out. I’m just as hard on myself as I am on others, so if I feel like I’m not up to par, I won’t even bother in the first place.

                    • 321mena123

                      You sound like you sell yourself short.

                    • Joel

                      I don’t know about that one….but I will do everything in my power to make sure any flaws that are within my control are mitigated before stepping to any woman. The last thing I want to deal with is being rejected for something that I could have easily fixed beforehand if I had worked on myself a bit better..

                    • Rachmo

                      Your flaws make you human :-)

                    • Joel

                      On paper, I agree with you. However, it’s been shown to me that being human isn’t good enough….so….lol

                    • Rachmo

                      SIR! **slams down her bourbon** IT IS!

                    • Joel

                      I will believe it when it happens to me.

                    • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

                      ~ I will believe it when it happens to me.

                      it wont happen so long as you wont believe the possibility exists. with all due respect, you dont even see the losing game you are running on yourself.

                    • Joel

                      And where does this belief come from?

                    • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

                      i dont know where your limiting beliefs come from. this is a question you must ask yourself.

                    • Joel

                      I could tell you exactly where they come from….they come from years of less than stellar experiences, bad timing, and lack of compatibility (as SuperStrings has pointed out elsewhere in this conversation).

                    • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

                      well. that’s all over now. it’s yours to let go. or to cart around. it’s choice. but listen, Sisyphus, that’s you dooming yourself.

                    • SuperStrings

                      Dang, she called you Sisyphus. She said, “put down the boulder, sir.” lol

                    • Joel

                      I actually had to Wikipedia who Sisyphus was, honestly. At this point maybe I do need to put everything down, not just the boulder.

                    • 321mena123

                      What type of women are you going for? Just wondering. What are your standards in look and personality?

                    • Joel

                      I honestly don’t know what is best for me in terms of either looks or personality. I could rattle off a long list of traits and qualities I don’t want in a woman based on past (negative) experiences, but that would get us nowhere….unfortunately, that’s all I have to go on at the moment.

                    • MsSula

                      Question: can you at least tell when you find a woman attractive?

                    • Joel

                      Physically? Yes. Personality-wise? Not so much. I think it’s because I have a very low tolerance for what I can and can’t deal with in that department.

                    • MsSula

                      Ok, that’s a great start. :)

                      Question 2: Do you have women friends/relatives/acquaintances that you enjoy the company of?

                    • Joel

                      Yes, there are lots of women that fit this description.

                    • MsSula

                      So there you go. You can start checking the personality of those women you enjoy spending time with and that can give an inkling about what you DO enjoy in a woman as far as personality traits.

                    • Joel

                      I see what you’re getting at, however, even though there are no issues with personalities, it’s usually finding out a woman’s preferences when the problems arise.

                    • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

                      word. love is unconditional ~*~

                    • Sahel

                      What if am flawless

                    • Rachmo

                      So you are a woman Beyonce

                    • Sahel

                      LMAO

                    • SuperStrings

                      Yeah, this Get Out of Jail card only works so many times. You get like two times to leave the toilet seat up. lol

                    • Rachmo

                      Yeah bc then I’m beating you down. But you have no flaws unicorn man so no worries.

                    • SuperStrings

                      “But you have no flaws unicorn man so no worries.”
                      That’s why I fit in so well here at VSB. lol

                    • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

                      with all due respect, from this brief conversation you appear to be seeking a confirmation bias of negative result.

                    • Joel

                      Hmm. So what’s the alternative?

                    • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

                      removing the bias towards negativity.

                      by way of example, in response to Mena below, you state, “but I will do everything in my power to make sure any flaws that are
                      within my control are mitigated before stepping to any woman.”

                      this is negative and limiting. it’s also unfair and potentially harmful to allow or encourage your ego dominate your soul.

                    • Joel

                      How does the act of working on self and fixing flaws become unfair, limiting, negative, or harmful?

                    • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

                      from your words, it reads as though you are seeking a confirmation bias of negative result based in limiting beliefs around that you yourself admit you would like to be proven wrong.

                    • Joel

                      But that has nothing to do with me working on myself and becoming a better man. Who wants to bring all their issues to another person’s doorstep? Trust me, I hate the feeling that I have to be perfect in order to have a shot. I don’t actually want to be perfect, even if it were possible. honestly…I’m being overly sarcastic at this point whenever I speak of “trying to be perfect”.

                    • Rachmo

                      People have issues. You just find the person whose issues you can deal with

                    • Joel

                      A wise man once told me the same thing as well. It’s a very true statement….

                    • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

                      ~ But that has nothing to do with me working on myself and becoming a better man.

                      i respectfully disagree. they are deeply intertwined. it appears you’ve tied double knots around your beliefs, so that you can hold them in place. since you want them to be true, you will seek to confirm them by weaving more thoughts into this tapestry until you have produced your own masterpiece.

                    • Joel

                      So I’m supposed to let go of what I believe to be true in favor of….in favor of what, again? Help me out here….I really want to understand this better. That’s why I’m here.

                    • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

                      ~ So I’m supposed to let go of what I believe to be true in favor of….in favor of what, again?

                      this is where the conflict begins. so long as you believe in limiting beliefs and create confirmation biases around negativity to prove it true, you will be stuck in a prison of your own making.

                      begin with the very simple possibility that the negative and disempowering thoughts you hold are false. just try this out and see how it makes you feel. especially try it out when your oldest fears rise up and try to drown you in misery.

                      try out the idea that all of this is false. see how comfortable—and uncomfortable—you are with the possibility that all this negativity is a lie designed to limit your possibility while on earth.

                    • Joel

                      So you’re asking me to believe in the unknown?

                    • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

                      no. i did not say that. don’t skip steps or try to interpret what you do not understand. that will be your weakness as you paradigm shift. get conscious to it. it’s going to repeat over and over again.

                      now this is what i am saying: you dont need to believe “in” anything.

                      i’m asking you to consider that your negative and disempowering thoughts are false. that is all. can you take that on, consistently ? try it for a day. get conscious. an hour is a long time when you hear how much ishh you run on yourself.

                      dont overthink it just try it out. resist the urge to interpret it, or think about any next steps to take. just be still. be with it. be aware. be conscious. that is all.

                    • h.h.h.

                      it appears you’ve tied double knots around your beliefs, so that you can hold them in place. since you want them to be true, you will seek to confirm them by weaving more thoughts into this tapestry until you have produced your own masterpiece.

                      i’m not sure it’s quite as easy to write it off as confirmation bias when you’ve realized that someone with X traits leads to X path… J’s trying to avoid T.O.G with X traits. *shrugs*

                    • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

                      so long as you defend it, it will hold you in its trap.

                      again, nothing worth having is easy, especially when it requires deep inner personal growth.

                      i speak from my own experience, this isnt a comment on anyone else.

                    • h.h.h.

                      fair enough, i know of J’s experience, and it (somewhat) mirrors mine.

                    • h.h.h.

                      Trust me, I hate the feeling that I have to be perfect in order to have a shot.

                      you don’t have to be, IMO. if it seems that you have to be perfect to have a shot…then i think that’s inherently…off. or wrong. or not worth it.

                      ms. esa is right in that if you believe in something you will see that as truth, irregardless of what anyone else says. so i won’t try to change your POV, because i live it too. but i’d just suggest continuing to work on self and realizing ain’t nobody else perfect, don’t try to make yourself perfection and don’t seek total perfection, seek someone that perfectly aligns with you.

                      *releases peace offering of doves and rabbits and baby deer*

                      oh, lions suck

                    • Joel

                      Yes, the Lions do suck. Monkey balls.
                      I agree with almost everything Esa is saying. I am not actually trying to be perfect, and I don’t seek perfection from anyone….it just feels (based on the things I’ve experienced) that I personally have to be that way.

                    • h.h.h.

                      i know, it’s like that sometimes.
                      someone told me once, “if they can’t accept you for the guy you are, then you know that they aren’t the one”…or something like that.

                      but yeah, if you feel you gotta be Mt Everest… fuggem and find your path.

                      but..who am i to talk, har har.

                    • Joel

                      I agree.

                    • Rachmo

                      I think a better goal would be to not worry about what “they” want and focus more on what you want.

                    • Joel

                      I’m already focused on that. But that still doesn’t solve the bigger problem. lol

                    • Rachmo

                      What is the bigger problem?

                    • Joel

                      The bigger problem is that sooner or later, whatever it is I have going on in my life would need to be sufficient for someone, no matter how perfect or imperfect that is. So yes, what someone else wants is important in that regard, since it is that person who I’d be entering some sort of relationship with.

                    • Rachmo

                      I mean yeah you should definitely make sure the person you’re with is comfortable but that person should also respect the core of what makes you Joel. Also as of right now (if I’m wrong here correct me) it seems you don’t know who you’d be entering a relationship with. So right now you don’t know what the future Joel’s Boo Thang would want. That’s why I think it’s easier to just focus on what you want.

                    • Joel

                      You’re right. I’m not so much concerned with a relationship or marriage as I am trying to find common ground with someone. The basic stuff. I’m talking the middle school “Do you like me? Circle one yes or no” note. smh.

                    • Rachmo

                      Man that common ground struggle is a b*tch.

                    • Joel

                      And that’s my problem. I’m reaching the age where many of my peers are either married (or on their way there) and/or starting families already. Not that I’m trying to compete with anyone, but I am already a late bloomer in most other areas of life. Not trying to fall further behind.

                    • Rachmo

                      Hey there fellow late bloomer. I don’t fully believe in “falling behind” bc of what observing my uncle taught me. My mother got married at 25, had two kids by 34 and is loving life. Her older brother got married at 40, had kids at like 42 or 43 I believe, and is loving life. Two different paths with the same outcome of love, family, and overall happiness. I totally get where you are coming from bc sometimes I feel like wait I should be doing x, y, z by now. But lucky for us there isn’t a limited amount of marriage or families. So we late bloomers can get ours when the time is right :-)

                    • Joel

                      I see. Hopefully it happens sooner rather than later. It’s getting more and more difficult to change beliefs as I get older.

                    • Rachmo

                      Well my backup option is to become my aunt who is unmarried and my mom’s age. She makes it look really fabulous. #glasshalffullninja

                    • SuperStrings

                      “I’m talking the middle school “Do you like me? Circle one yes or no” note. smh.”
                      *sings* Can it be that it was all so simple then…

                    • Sigma_Since 93

                      You gotta love you before someone else does flaws and all. Now I don’t mean that you say I’m just me and not work to improve yourself, I’m coming from a place of everyday I ask God to allow me to be a better person today than I was the day before. There’s a confidence the radiates that people see when you walk with that mindset. I have a similar discussion with my son and I tell him change for the the purpose of pleasing girl x isn’t worth it but change for the sake of becoming a better man is always worth it.

                      My superhero soundtrack plays in my mind and I make it do what it do; women see that and many find it chexy. You will find the women that finds you sufficient and can’t image being without you. Don’t push it and don’t dwell on it.

                    • h.h.h.

                      but if doing this typically leads you by yourself for the majority of your life…while others are flourishing…

                      http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Colin-Farrell-Shrug-In-Bruges.gif

                    • Rachmo

                      Are they “flourishing” or are they just in relationships?

                    • h.h.h.

                      Are they “flourishing” or are they just in relationships?

                      both

                    • Rachmo

                      Well I’ve spent most of my 20s watching other people flourish in great relationships while I was either single or floundering. I know it was frustrating as fuck and I wondered what I was doing wrong. It turns out, as my friends told me repeatedly, I wasn’t doing anything wrong. The timing just wasn’t right. Now that I found someone that is compatible with me that’s when my actual work starts. So I don’t fuck it up.

                    • h.h.h.

                      cool #Respect

                    • Rachmo

                      I seriously do what you to find some normal chick that just wants to lurk and be sarcastic with you.

                    • h.h.h.

                      lol, that’s not going to happen.

                      i appreciate your optimism, it is quite refreshing, i do mean that

                      *sings the Chipmunk Christmas song…but it’s a little flat #AlvinStyle *

                    • Rachmo

                      Haha I am known to be blindly optimistic for others when it comes to romance. I’m all “I’ll die alone but YOU sir will live happily ever after.” I’m forcing to my Tiggerness on your Eeyore. That may have been a TWSS moment?

                    • h.h.h.

                      definitely a TWSS…lol

                    • To’Mas Que Fuego

                      Haha! So their first date would be a romantic afternoon with popcorn in front a computer screen projection scrolling through VSB comments lurking and trading witty one liners and potential memes with each other? lol

                    • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

                      (giggle) maybe thas already happenninn out there righh noww ~*~

                    • Rachmo

                      YES! Just holding hands and picking out amazing memes. *sighs* I’m a romantic hahaha

                    • MsSula

                      Totally in agreement here. First of all, I have a hard time with the word “perfection”. Ain’t no such thing. And even if it existed, it would be such a subjective term. What is perfection to X would be a nightmare for Y.

                      In other words, just work on things that bother YOU about yourself. In doing so, you will meet the person who will find your quirks endearing, or the one willing to deal with your messed-up stuff.

                      You have to own your messedupness though. That’s the first step in getting the right person to come to us. Be willing to walk in and work with your truth.

                    • 321mena123

                      How are you coming in early with the knowledge? Allow us to warm up first.

                    • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

                      i wake up like this ~*~

                    • Sahel

                      Complicated lol

                    • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

                      i’m not complicated so much as complex ~*~

                    • 321mena123

                      YYAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSS!

                    • Rachmo

                      BOL Esa

                    • http://daratmathis.wordpress.com/ dtafakari

                      POW.

                    • SuperStrings

                      Limiting beliefs are a defense mechanism. Removing them may allow him to meet those women who would “prove him wrong”, but it seems it also exposes him more to those who would prove him right. There are always tradeoffs.

                    • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

                      nicely said ~*~ limiting beliefs are deeply rationalized, and very hard to remove because they offer comfort in the form of a hairshirt that people have worn for so long they are uncomfortable with the possibility that cashmere exists ..

                  • Rachmo

                    @disqus_VOvh2yTGoO:disqus @disqus_7RsGiMxhUB:disqus @disqus_2gDjLLw4Ri:disqus ya’ll need to hang out with more chicks haha.

                    • http://daratmathis.wordpress.com/ dtafakari

                      not more chicks, DIFFERENT chicks lol

                    • Rachmo

                      Yeah. Most women in VSB come off as pretty standard to moi. Maybe in my real life I just only seek out certain kinds of women?

                    • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

                      water seeks its own level ~*~

                    • Sahel

                      Wait,are we talking about flooding?

                    • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

                      not in your case ~*~

                    • Rachmo

                      Perfect summary

                    • camilleblue

                      Ha!

                    • Sahel

                      I think you do

                    • Kozy

                      I used that method we discussed some days back. Didn’t even mean to, really. Worked almost instantly. 90% of the credit goes to the wingwoman, though. She was amazing.

                    • Rachmo

                      See? Look at God. hahaha

                    • afronica

                      Have to love a man who listens, learns and adapts. Yes.

                    • Kozy

                      ^_^

                    • Joel

                      Working on that….perfection takes a long time to accomplish. lol

                  • Sahel

                    m telling you. I have seen things,many things,but VSS’s are pushing my realm of laws ey,it’s like disapproving the law of gravity

          • veryaveragebrotha

            “I don’t even want a diamond.”

            When I read this I thought you were going to be on some..”because I’m not materialistic and I don’t think objects are in any way shape or form a representation of our love and commitment”, but nah…you just meant you wanted a different kind of shiny expensive object

            • Sahel

              Airstrike

            • 321mena123

              LOL! I want a ring and Sapphires aren’t expensive in my opinion. Diamonds cost. A sapphire is a birth stone. You may find a woman who only wants a band or no ring at all. Like i said downthread, know your audience.

              • http://vagabondaesthetics.tumblr.com/ Ricky

                Nothing other people have to pay for is ever expensive.

                • 321mena123

                  True.

                  But my point is that this is something that we would have discussed beforehand.

              • Sweet Ga Brown

                A part of my wants only the traditional gold band and nothing fancy. Im not even sure I want an engagement ring.

                • MsSula

                  Where I am from, you were your engagement ring when you are engaged. Once you get married, you just keep your wedding band. And your engagement ring becomes a nice ring you can wear on your right hand if you wish. Reason why people don’t spend outrageous amounts on it. It’s just a nice piece of jewelry to have. My e ring is sleeping in my jewelry box as I type. :-)

                  • Chinesefoodisorgasmic

                    You must be African.

                  • 321mena123

                    I like this.

            • camilleblue

              So, what is your preference? No rings at all for either of you?

              • http://vagabondaesthetics.tumblr.com/ Ricky

                He’s going to be paying for the both of them and his is going to have to match her preference soooooooooooooooo yeah.

                • Rachmo

                  Why wouldn’t the bride buy the wedding rings?

                  • http://daratmathis.wordpress.com/ dtafakari

                    I’m progressive and all, but I know not too many women who would jump at that. Sad but true.

                    • Rachmo

                      Brides don’t buy the wedding bands?

                    • 321mena123

                      I thought she bought his and he bought hers. Or they picked them out and split the bill.

                    • http://daratmathis.wordpress.com/ dtafakari

                      My memory shouldn’t be this fuzzy, but it is, and I think ya’ll are right.

                    • Rachmo

                      Yeah I’m lost bc I haven’t been married haha.

                    • Sigma_Since 93

                      They buy the husband’s band; not too many of them are as flashy or have the same cost pain associated with them.

                    • Rachmo

                      Ooooooh I really did assume the bride bought the bands.

                    • camilleblue

                      I bought my husbands band…he picked out what he wanted. I had no problem with it.

                    • Rachmo

                      Clearly we aren’t talking about gay weddings here haha

                • camilleblue

                  What? I’m not sure what you’re saying Ricky. Who says that he has to pay for both rings? And what do you mean by match her preference?

                  • http://vagabondaesthetics.tumblr.com/ Ricky

                    The style of the rings are in have to match no? Normative social behavior says he has to pay for both rings.

                    • 321mena123

                      Closed mouths don’t get fed. I would assume that by this time, a discussion has been had on the rings, style, and cost BEFORE the purchase begins. I am with dtafakari. I don’t want stupid bills with the start of our marriage. Even if everything is 5k (just throwing out a number) i would hope that we both can cover this cost without having to do a downpayment. Yall are making it seem like you have no choice in the cost which is utterly ridiculous.

                    • Rachmo

                      We are in COMPLETE agreement here. My goodness maybe I too know unicorn men who had definite opinions of what they wanted in their wedding.

                    • 321mena123

                      Come have a drink with me because this conversation is making no sense!

                    • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

                      the law of attraction presupposes that you will keep the company of those like yourself, so some people have the best points of reference, while others find themselves surrounded by the worst.

                    • Rachmo

                      This makes sense to me. I am really sitting here having flashbacks to all the weddings I went to in the past two years. It was very clear who picked what in the wedding.

                    • camilleblue

                      Yeah…doing the most with the least today…

                    • camilleblue

                      No..they don’t have to match…although I will say that most times, they are similar in style. As far as paying for both rings…eh…I’ve seen it go both ways.

                    • Ms. Bridget

                      Me and hubby’s rings don’t match…so there’s that.

              • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

                i want a tattoo ~*~

                • camilleblue

                  I know someone who got a tattoo…I think that’s great if that’s what works for you.

              • veryaveragebrotha

                That would make most sense

          • MsSula

            My engagement ring is a blue sapphire with small rubies. Much more like myself = twisted. :-)

          • Ms. Bridget

            We went the sapphire route and are loving it. No ring OR wedding debt is definitely the way to go!

    • Rachmo

      Ring pressure is scary and very real.

  • http://ladyngo.blogspot.com/ Lady Ngo

    LOL, i don’t have time for all that excitement. Unless its my absolute best friend in the world and i actually like her dude, all you’re getting is a “congrats” and depending when i found out, a “have you started planning yet?”

  • Dr. Fabulous

    As the only remaining single girl in my crew, I’ve definitely had the “what his friends look like?” conversation. I’m not much for the squealing and OMGing over the engagement/ring because my friends had been with their boos forever before said engagement.

  • Joel

    The conversation between the women made marriage look like the best thing ever. The conversation between the men made marriage sound like the worst thing this side of Jim Schwartz keeping his job next season.

  • Rachmo

    This video cracked me up! It’s like you knew I needed some cheer on this gloomy Monday.

  • Cheekie Mae

    Though we may need to get the screams outta the way first, best believe us chicks will eventually talk about whether good peen will be at the wedding, too. ;)

  • SuperStrings

    My mom and dad bought each other wedding bands for their engagement. They were just starting out, and my dad told her he wished he could do better and promised one day he would. Ten years and a good life later, he did.

    • Rachmo

      *makes high pitched incomprehensible woman noises*

      • Sahel

        Yeah

      • SuperStrings

        Like dolphins?

        • Rachmo

          It’s more like a fox

    • Joel

      That’s what’s up. Good to see people that are willing to stick with each other.

    • Sahel

      This makes me wonder ey,with the level of divorces these days. Is it loss of patience

      • SuperStrings

        Are you saying that marriage should be a backend loaded contract, financially?

        • Sahel

          But was that not the original concept of marriage.to transfer wealth and protect it