- Eh, I guess.
1. Like last week’s ubiquitous No Wedding, No Womb discussion and subsequent Twitter Deathmatch, I’m much more interested in people’s reactions to the Bishop Eddie Long scandal—and the myriad meta sub-conversations about religion, the “rightness” of mega-churches, and homosexuality that’ll come from those reactions—than the eventual outcome of the scandal itself, and I assume most of you reading this feel the exact same way.
This type of increasingly common “detached but exaggerated curiosity” actually reminds me a bit of the “2 Girls 1 Cup” phenomenon, where more people watched the reaction videos—people showing the video to their friends and family members and taping their reactions—than the actual video. I’m not sure if this is a bad thing or if it just is, but it personally rubbed me the wrong way when I realized I’d offered dozens of opinions (and jokes) about this story last week despite the fact that I hadn’t even bothered to learn (or read) the names of the accusers until Sunday night.
2. One of the more interesting and disturbing developments with this story is the literal frothing of the mouth some of us educated black folk get when presented with the opportunity to speak badly and joke about Christianity and Christians. I’m not suggesting that any religion should be immune to critique and ridicule, but I wonder if some of these people would be as quick to clown Islam or Judaism in the same manner.
3. My feelings about mega-churches and multi-millionaire preachers mirror my feelings about Nicki Minaj’s body: I can’t tell you exactly what, but something about it just aint right.
4. Whenever a person asks my opinion about a high-profile sexual misconduct case, my first reply is “I hope they (the accusers) are lying“. Why?
Well, if choosing between A) They’re telling the truth and the accused is guilty, which means the accusers have had to deal with the agony of being sexually violated or B) They’re lying and the accused is innocent, which means although the accusers have some insidious motives, they haven’t had to deal with the agony of being sexually violated, B) seems like the preferred outcome
5. I think a black straight man admitting he’s been sexually abused carries even more of a stigma within our community than a black man coming out of the closet. Put it this way: It wouldn’t be a huge leap to say there are more than a few educated and “enlightened” women reading this right now who wouldn’t date a man if she knew he’d been forced to do a sexual act with a man.
This is part of the reason why I’ll always say that one of the most courageous things I’ve ever seen a person do was when NFL receiver Laveranues Coles publicly admitted he’d been sexually abused as a child.
6. I don’t consider the leaked photos of Long posing, flexing, and vogueing in full spandex—photos he apparently sent to one (or more?) of the accusers—as “proof” of a sexual relationship. Inappropriate? Yes. Disturbing? Definitely. Unintentionally hilarious? Of course.
But, although I don’t know too many uber-narcissistic 50-something millionaire men with Jeri curls who’ve deemed themselves “Bishop”, I’d assume that people who fit this unique description would be prone to occasionally say and do some strange shit (like sending pictures of yourself in full spandex and matching Kangol to, well, anyone), and being a weird-ass motherf*cker with a God complex doesn’t necessarily mean you’re a sexual predator.
7. With that being said, it’s almost like Eddie Long went to The Rape Store and bought the most expensive “Dress Like a Rapist” Halloween costume kit he could find. My goodness. The only way he could seem even rapey-er is if he changed his name to Charlie Murphy.
8. I have to admit these allegations didn’t pass my initial sniff test. I can’t explain exactly why, but my first thought when hearing about this was “Eh. I don’t know“. “Sexual Coercion” sounds more an Cinemax After Dark title than an actual offense. And remember, I have no dog in the fight. Shit, although I had heard of him before, I didn’t even know Long was black until last week.
But, after considering his awkward Sunday sermon and the fact that as the week continued, accusers began to pop up at a rate rivaling Tiger’s mistresses (at this speed, Long will have enough accusers to start his own winter basketball league by November), I can’t think of a reason not to believe the good Bishop has been doing what he’s been accused of doing, and that’s a bummer.
—The Champ
I was willing to let this slide if no other names pop up, but as more names continue to emerge it’s hard to believe that something did transpire.
I also refuse to discuss this topic in mixed “race” company. I cannot in good conscience do it. I’m not sure why.
Sorry I meant something did NOT transpire.
While I’m here I’m worried people will use this as an excuse to pin whatever reason they have for disbelief in organized religion on this.
“I also refuse to discuss this topic in mixed “race” company. I cannot in good conscience do it. I’m not sure why.”
i know exactly what you mean.
“I also refuse to discuss this topic in mixed “race” company. I cannot in good conscience do it. I’m not sure why.”
I refuse to discuss anything remotely pertaining to race at all in mixed race company.
I don’t get it. What does this have to do with race? Ted Haggart did it and he was a white pastor of a white church. Missing the racial element here…
I’ve discussed with my white coworkers with no awkwardness at all. Nothing about him being black came up. We live in Atlanta, it’s all over the news and one of my coworkers was called by local news stations to comment as an expert, so it’s a hot topic right now…but nothing racially offensive has come up.
Agreed….
Shoot, I didn’t even know who Eddie Long was 3 weeks ago… I guess not being up on your “bishops” and “mega churches” is not the black thing to do…
i had no idea who he was either….but i already lost my black card, so whatevs!
ps. im always inclined to believe the accuser….
I had no idea who he was either. On the strength of those pics alone, I have concluded that he is so many varying degress of weird. Those pics f’d up my coherence something wicked.
degrees^
I agree w/ the whole not discussing it in mixed race company- Even around black folk something in my conscience tells me to leave it alone & not talk about Bishop Long negtatively.
hedidit
Guilty! That nikka id guilty! Lol, on a serious note I hate that I laughed at the whole number of accusers rivaling tiger’s mistresses.
@JessicaL
Your Uncle Rukkus expression made me ‘lol’.
Thanks, O.J.
1, 2, 3. Co-sign.
4. I had a feeling he did it. Not sure why, I just did. I think the feeling I had as with the idea that they were coerced. Um, they were too old to be coerced. There was some “want to” in there somewhere. Just saying. When more people started coming out, that was when I actually started to think Long was innocent. “Me too” usually is a phrase of hangers-on.
Stephen A. Smith pointed out that Long never flatly denied the charges when he spoke at church. I know that’s part legal strategy, but if I were in that situation I’d pay my lawyers extra (which Long certainly can) to work past that.
The act/accusation is sad, but the situation surrounding it (media-induced bells and whistles, including commentary) is funny.
I haven’t kept up with Stephen A. since he left ESPN. Is he doing political commentary now? Why is he talking about Eddie Long?
SAS has a show on Fox Sports Radio and also appears on Steve Harvey’s show and msnbc every now and again. His show is a sports show, but he also talks about non-sports topics.
*waves good morning to B Brown…
ToureX noted the same thing on twitter last night, that the words INNOCENT never once was uttered by Long.
alas.
“Um, they were too old to be coerced.”
Please explain.
They were…how the hell does a 17 year old MAN (not boy) get “coerced” into gay sex?? They were already gay, which is not a problem, but they can’t act like he raped them or forced them to do a single thing at all.
I wasn’t sure whether to give props or shake my head at dude being able to match up a Kangol with an Underarmor set.
And really, I thought I was the only one that noticed that.
And really, I thought I was the only one that noticed that.
there are some things in life you’ll notice that you’ll wish you can unnotice.
If it did not now carry an air of sexual abuse around it, I think Under Armor-Kangol mashup could have swept the nation. It is oddly stylish, and has just the right amount of impracticalness to excite irony-loving trend-setters.
WE MUST PROTECT THIS HOUSE!
LMAO!
LMAO for real…I’m in class and just laughed out loud and folks looked at me like I was crazy.
I live in GA. Good point on #2 and all around. In my family, the first night the story broke, it was the hot topic from my mother on down to my pre-teen nephew. I am praying for the Long family and the people that follow him rather than God. I do not want these allegations, true or false, to turn them away from God or damage their faith in any way.
I think we all wanted to be neutral until the national news came on that night and showed the pictures. The pictures changed a lot of minds because the local news did not have them yet.
I am not a member or an Eddie Long fan. I have not been since I met him 20 yrs ago. But, I do have compassion for all involved, innocent or guilty.
EXCELLENT point. When it broke, that’s the first thing I thought “Aw hell, here is more anti-Christian ammunition for these intellectual atheists on these blogs. . .”
Yep…more ammo indeed.
Yup, yup!
Am not an intellectual atheist but I’m an all-opportunity, critique offerer… If less things were swept under the rug and more things were talked about in the open, a lot of less of those Eddie Long stories there would be… This has nothing to do with the religion or the faith, and everything to do with people taking more responsibility for their faith and beliefs. It’s okay to criticize things you believe in… It doesn’t make you believe in them less, or at least it shouldn’t… It should help you get to the better version of your faith…
I must have come to the post too early. I remember when there were 5 thoughts. We are up to 8 now.
My #2 is now #4. “Whenever a person asks my opinion about a high-profile sexual misconduct case, my first reply is “I hope they (the accusers) are lying“. …”
P.S.
Champ stop updating and call it a post!
“I must have come to the post too early. I remember when there were 5 thoughts. We are up to 8 now.”
^^^THIS^^^ I saw 5, then 6 and now its 8. I guess you’re done now, Champ.
I think he’s guilty. I’ve read the suits and I believe he’s done all that he’s accused of. You’re right Champie, the pictures don’t tell the whole story, but I know they killed me softly when they surfaced the other day. Wow, just wow. Don’t even get me started on the horrid toupee. *snickers*
Re: your edit. I totally agree with your #2. I’ve seen so many folks come out the woodwork this week bashing Christianity knowing full well that I’m a Christian. Most just got a side eye…you feel the way you feel and I can’t convince you otherwise. Folks need to realize that you can’t base your feelings on a religion based on a few bad apples. Generalizing will get you nowhere.
Major co-signage T-lee…
People who aren’t Christians or even on the fence are going to find reasons to discredit it in any way possible. Why? Because the bible and tha Ten commandments get in the way of how they believe their lives should be led. They want logical answers to faith based occurences. And when u can’t give that to them, then you’re seen as not being able to logically articulate what u believe. Now, with a handle such as Tx10inch I’ve neva claimed to even try to be tha “Holy One” but what I believe and TRY to live will always remain with me. Long story short, people gonna believe what they believe and only God or the people God puts in their lives can change that. But I digress, I’ve been hearing about Eddie Long for years via people that attend his Church. I did not bat an EYE when this story broke…next up to bat, Mr. TD Jakes….comun down!!!!!!
You read the suits and thinks he’s guilty? I read the suits too and without actual evidence the suits themselves are just a listing of hearsay lol. Not defending him, but also wondering how they were so persuasive to you. I’m a pessimist that way. I’d at least like to see the receipts first.
I agree but I also feel the need to ask a question. How many people have gotten off because there wasn’t enough evidence to convict when they truly did the crime?
How many people have gotten off because there wasn’t enough evidence to convict when they truly did the crime?
yeah, but this wasn’t a “crime” really. whether the sexual coercion part is true seems to be more interpretation based. i mean, whats the point of having power and status if you don’t use them to help you get some rhythm?
Just 1 year diff would make this a crime. A technical law of 16? I’m sorry but I think this is criminal. When I look at my 16 year-old cousins, I cannot imagine a grown @ss 40+year old man having sex with them. That should be a crime.
Exactly! At what age do we really consider one an adult/accountable? At 16 you cannot vote, marry without permission(in most states), drink, etc. If that’s the case whether society likes it or not they were still children.
Hmmm… it seems the question that you are asking is How Old Is 15 Really? If the allegations are true, I do think that Eddie Long is wrong – he’s morally wrong, and if there is a law against what he’s done (using his position of authority to get s3x), then he’s also criminally wrong. But a line has to be drawn. At what point do we require people to take personal responsibility i.e. when can they give consent? GA law says 16. If we don’t agree with that, then we need to try to change the law. Is it 17? 18? 21? I understand about ‘grooming’ and all of that, but if you’re being groomed when you’re 15, but nothing physical happens until you’re 17 or 18… We don’t know the facts of the case, nobody but God, those boys, and Eddie Long knows what really happened. But it does raise interesting questions/debates.
“At what point do we require people to take personal responsibility i.e. when can they give consent? GA law says 16. If we don’t agree with that, then we need to try to change the law. Is it 17? 18? 21? I understand about ‘grooming’ and all of that, but if you’re being groomed when you’re 15, but nothing physical happens until you’re 17 or 18…”
True story…
A dude we know is career military, he gets married while he is stationed over in Asia but when he returns to the states his “wife” is living in Canada, he explains that this is because of some issues with her citizen paperwork.
We know that he visits her regularly and that they have a couple of kids but she doesn’t come to the states for 3 or 4 years, even though he brings the kids with him to visit his folks.
There are crickets when we actually get to meet her because he says she is 18 but she looks younger… even though the age of consent is very low in her country as is the legal age to marry if he had brought her to the US first he would have been in big trouble because if we do the math she would have been 13 or 14 when he “married” her. He is in his 30’s.
I shared my thoughts in an earlier post and in my opinion 15, 16, mos def ain’t grown and with the way our culture raises most kids now days I give the side eye to 17 and 18.
It is socially uncomfortable to have 30 and 40 something peers (usually men) bring dates that aren’t old enough to drink and young enough to be their kids to gatherings.
What makes Long really creepy is the fact that he gains the trust of young people BEFORE the age of consent and then proceeds to engage them sexually as the clock strikes midnight on legal.
That is predatory… and I think that it is akin to stalking and making the prey weak before going in for the kill.
I would also like to go on record and say that I think that if you aren’t responsible enough to drink, then you shouldn’t be able to get married, sign a contract or go to war.
I think that we do need some across the board consistency for what the society holds you accountable for based on age…
But it especially disturbs me that culturally black folks have a tendency to start calling folks grown as early as 14.
Not because of any real or perceived sense of maturity or responsibility on the part of the child but usually to gain sexual access to the minor or to relieve ourselves of adult obligations… such as supervision and monetary support.
I also wonder if culturally some black folks aren’t a bit bitter about the decisions they had to make and responsibilities that they had to take on with no adult guidance.
It seems sub human to leave the young to fend for themselves… ~JS
@Jhane
I cosign your entire comment! Eddie Long may not have committed a crime but it is definitely predatory. I see men do it to young girls all the time. My 17 year old cousin is dating a 33 year old man. She’s legal but I still think he is a predatory CREEP as she has almost nothing in common with him. It’s all about control control control CONTROL.
And that was the point I wanted to make @ Champ.. Everyone keeps saying Guilty/Not Guilty, but there have not been any crimes comitted… Regardless of what pople have to “say” he is not going to go to jail for any of the allegations that were brought forth. He did NOT commit any crimes/ break any laws. Not saying right or wrong, but even if they were sukking the Eddie Schlong, they didnt have a problem when they were taking international trips, getting their tuitions paid, and riding around in brand new cars. According to GA law, 16 is the age of consent. If he did woo the young men with gifts, and money…. You tell me what man in here is not guilty of “sexual coercion”. OK, maybe it didnt apply to teenaged boys, but I have been “sexually coerced” since my bee-stings turned into EXTREME ALLERGIC REACTIONS. As far as how he is being percieved as a christian… we do that to all religons…. That is why no one wants to sit next to the muslim dude on the Southwest flight to H-town. If those relationships had been with females of consenting age, would we still be having this conversation?….. Outside of him cheating on his wife… I really dont see anything wrong with what he did… that is if these allegations are true. So what if he is supposed to be a man of God…. he is still a man. As far as the outfits in the picture mails are concerned…. HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOOO… he lives in Atlanta.. Spandex there is the new denim!
She read a document and automatically concluded he was guilty. The justice system itself is a problem, with or without evidence. Anybody can file a document in court and make all kinds of claims. Sure you can think about motives etc, but I was just wondering how the documents themselves, filled with some light details, and no evidence, made her conclude that he did it. Again, not defending him, but when I read the docs I thought they’d be more telling than the news reports. They weren’t.
I’m back to explain why I think he’s guilty…
given the ages of the boys when this all happened (mid teens), which some folks have tried to say they were the age of consent in GA (not sure, haven’t researched) the whole thing seems shady. I don’t care if he’s the pastor of a church, taking trips with these boys across continents, paying college tuition, giving lavish gifts such as cars (purchased under other NB members names,etc), sharing hotel rooms– just doesn’t look good. Also, I’ve read other reports where this was all done under the guise of his “mentorship” program, and church funds were used, and also that his co-ministers and other employees of the church were supposedly in on this from jump. The boys were also on the payroll at the church, for what? Were they working there? I don’t think so.
We can all form out opinions about the man and the situation, but all I’m saying is, it doesn’t look good to me, and if you can be so flip about using your members money for who knows what, there’s no telling what else you’re capable of doing.
Trust, if this was the pastor of my church he would be getting the side eye from me, just as hard.
Evidentiary exhibits are generally not included in complaints. Brevity is important at the complaint stage. The evidence will enter the public record if the cases go to litigation, which is why Eddie may chose to settle out of court.
Eddie can sue his accusers for defamation if their charges are not based in truth. Georgia allots so many days for a defendant to file cross-complaints and answers. Give Eddie and his lawyers time.
I wish more people understood how sexual abuse works…that came out wrong. What I mean is this: there are classic examples of what abusers typically do. People in power, people with in-tact reputations and such are the people MOST likely to get away with it. Why? Because they know folks have a misconception about who abuses and why they abuse.
Now, these men, being straight and all, are targeted because of how they appear. If Long woudl have been hanging around a bunch of known gay teenage males, he would have gotten the side eye (mostly because of his preaching against homesexuality). So, he knew that he could start this “special” club, show these boys with no consistent male guidance in their life some attention, and do what he (allegedly) did and no one would be the wiser. It’s not expected of him….and that’s the abusers most valuable weapon.
And because there are more folks coming out doesn’t seem to reek of the “me-too” attitude. This kind of abuse isn’t just enacted on one person. If an abuser gets away with it once, he will do it again. If anything, the fact that there are more than one accuser makes me believe he is, in fact, a classic sexual predator.
Also, BJ Bernstein is a reputable attorney (worked with her personally) and I’d like to think she wouldn’t take a case that is just smoke and mirrors.
“People in power, people with in-tact reputations and such are the people MOST likely to get away with it. Why? Because they know folks have a misconception about who abuses and why they abuse. ”
Thank you.
I too think he’s guilty.
Even though sixteen is the legal age of consent in Georgia, it doesn’t make it right. At sixteen, one is still easily impressionable. ESPECIALLY by someone older
with a jheri curl. There is no reason for that man to be frolicing around the country with young boys and no one else around to witness.As a person who has very much grown up nestled within the “black church culture”…it’s almost impossible for me to really pin down exactly how I feel about the whole scandal until all the facts come out. But suffice it to say that it doesn’t look good. Like you Champ, I hope it’s untrue of course but…it’s a really sad state of affairs when I find that I’m not as surprised as I should be by this, given the sins of high-ranking officials in other religious sects.
They could always do that Catholic Church method of dealing with situations like this. Ignore, Ignore, Deny, Ignore, Ignore…Oh yeah we’re sorry about what happened if it happend…Ignore.
The problem with, “Ignore, Ignore, Deny, Ignore, Ignore…Oh yeah we’re sorry about what happened if it happend…Ignore.” is that Eddie Long does not have the clandestine hallows of The Church to bury the case. He is the Pastor of only one church. Where is he going to hide?
Exactly…. The Catholic Church was able to get away with murder for so long, because the organization itself is quite powerful… The Vatican is its own sovereign entity benefiting from diplomatic privileges and the likes… That’s why they could sweep it under the rug…
My momma and I had many a fight about this very subject (I was raised Catholic)… and it’s a sad state of affairs anyway you look at it.
I think what I found most interesting in my reaction was that I was not surprised in the least bit. Granted, I didn’t know who Eddie Long was then, but I was not surprised that a well-known “man of God” who has a powerful and well-known anti-gay ministry would indeed, actually be a sexual predator… Not surprised in the least.
What I’m wondering though, is how he was able to reconcile both the public sermons with the private ones? Because I’m assuming those accusers were certainly members of his church, right? So how did he explain it away?
It’s rather a shame though… Le sigh.
It makes me really sad to see things like this. Not only are these young men going to be, well not ‘ruined for life’ but most certainly will carry the scar for years (if its true), but I am SOOOOOOOO tired of ‘Christians’ who decry homs3xuality and are the same ones abusing children and meeting male hookers in hotel rooms or whatever.
Geez, if you have a log in your eye, (or a dude’s piece in your mouth for that matter) there is no need to be throwing stones are other folks.
Like everyone said, I hope Eddie Long isn’t guilty, but even if he isn’t guilty of a actual crime, he is still a trifling predatory mess.
Also @Champ:
“7. With that being said, it’s almost like Eddie Long went to The Rape Store and bought the most expensive “Dress Like a Rapist” Halloween costume kit he could find. My goodness. The only way he could seem even rapey-er is if he changed his name to Charlie Murphy.”
LMFAO, there is nothing funny about rape, but I totally laughed out loud for real. You almost got me in trouble at work. :p
I still question it. Its a civil suit, the lawyer keeps saying he used his money and influence however all men were involved in this
“Spiritual son” mentor program. So yes, he had them in his home, and took them on trips
And its easy to view the pictures and actions through the lens of the accusers. But prior to the accusers
It wasn’t deemed inappropriate right? So considering what they are now defining as inappropriate
And the dual nature I feel most pastors, bishops (how do you become a bishop or even better apostle)
Etc have. Being perfect in the pulpit but a man/human/imperfect after the doors close and the fact that potentially millions are involved
I can see how several of his former spiritual sons who are no longer shining in that light will come forward.
But yet I can’t shake the feeling something is wrong on both sides of this. I don’t see him as innocent necessarily but it is entirely
To early to be burning him in effigy and condemning him to he.ll but also you can’t deny that the possibility of wrong doing does exist
I still question it. Its a civil suit, the lawyer keeps saying he used his money and influence however all men were involved in this
“Spiritual son” mentor program. So yes, he had them in his home, and took them on trips
And its easy to view the pictures and actions through the lens of the accusers. But prior to the accusers
It wasn’t deemed inappropriate right?
valid question
Eh, I get the feeling he did it. It takes a lot for people in a country that is s*xually repressed like America is to come forward and claim sexual abuse. Whispers will follow the accusers their whole life, as will the resentment from their family and friends who could become embarrassed by the whole ordeal.
co-sign.
i put nothing past no one. my friend [who is saved and a minister] is having sex with her older, married pastor. hmmph.
“i put nothing past no one. my friend [who is saved and a minister] is having sex with her older, married pastor. hmmph”
Jennifer I strongly agree with you. No one is exempt from sin no matter how high they sit in the pulpit. I hope he’s innocent! I hope these are just allegations and someone is trying to “get rich quick”.
I also know people in leadership (church) that put on a nice front on Sunday morning. Its sad! This one of the main reasons why so many people disassociate themselves from church. Not God but organized religion. People are a mess!
“i put nothing past no one.”
okay? I don’t either.
2. One of the more interesting and disturbing developments with this story is the literal frothing of the mouth some of us educated black folk get when presented with the opportunity to speak badly and joke about Christianity. I’m not suggesting that any religion should be immune to critique and ridicule, but I wonder if some of these people would be as quick to clown Islam in the same manner.
Well the educated black folks that are criticizing Bishop Long and his form of “Christianity” grew up in the black church and consider themselves Christians. It would look bad if they criticize another religion like Islam which they don’t know or not apart of. It’s like black comedians making fun of black people but if white do it they get the side eye.
I’ve def seen some educated non-Christians frothing at the mouth. Not to say the ones you are describing are exempt, but I think Champ has a valid point either way.
I agree!!
I feel very comfortable criticizing the Catholic Church because I KNOW IT!! It would be not very smart (or read completely stupid) to criticize Hinduism…. a religion I know absolutely nothing about.
personally i’m confused. i.just. don’t . know.
I don’t know what went down, but I sense something in the milk ain’t clean. There is very little materialistic incentive to come out and speak about being sexually abused. There is especially very little incentive to do so as a black man against a church environment that can be homophobic. The double standard comes into play in which levels of masculinity are questioned and when the alleged victims are male. It seems to be less support for these accusers, than if they were women.
co-sign.
Would you really want to be the man to accuse such a prominent figure in the black church community of such heinous crimes, knowing how homophobic the black communty is?
Unless they were/are going for a payoff, aka, MJ, and this move was just to tighten the screws a little.
It seems to be less support for these accusers, than if they were women.
actually i think if they were women, and the charges were “he used his status to encourage me to sleep with him”, nobody would care.
I agree. If these were women, there would be talk about the “fast tail girls”.
I can understand your point to some degree, but men get even less sympathy. it’s like people laughing if a man says he’s a victim of domestic violence from his woman. It isn’t an issue of he can’t “whoop her”, it’s that he recognizes he’s a man and doesn’t and people laugh and thing it’s funny or emasculating. Now even though I know some folks (women at that) would say “Well, those were some fast girls”, just like they did with R. Kelly, in many cases men don’t even have the number of support groups that some women. Gloria Alred, who is notprious for cases such as this, came to the defense of Tigers side-piece. What she and Tiger did was not illegal either. It is not the same for men and it is a double standard.
*that some women have
**notorious
***Tiger’s
Dang, I must still be sleep (PST).
I cosign. What is the benefit for the accusers? Men crying rape? That’s not something you hear everyday.
I know! This definitely did not come out of nowhere!
They would not put themselves out there like this if they didn’t have something substantial to tell.
@Smartfox
Cosign. No straight men will falsely accuse anyone of such acts…
These allegations do not shook me in the least. Honesty…I NEVER liked him. I found him to be a vile, stupid homophobe.
I feel so sorry for the young men involved in this. Where are their parents in all of this?
Support for him is stronger than I thought and that’s what really upsets me. It has nothing to do with him being in same-sex relations, it has EVERYTHING to do with him being a hedonistic a**hole.
It’s because we as a community have the look the other way/sweep it under the rug mentality when horrible things happen to us. We carry our burdens like we did back in slavery times.
Yes! It’s really unfortunate because it lets CREEPS like him get a free pass.
“Oh, he does so much for the community and BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.” ALL HOT AIR. He has to cover his tracks somehow.
Honesty…I NEVER liked him. I found him to be a vile, stupid homophobe.
next time, tell us how you really feel
LMAO! I’ll try!
These allegations do not shook me in the least
Same here…. and I too am a little bit surprised at the “support”…
I read this status on FB: “I’m sure all those people crucifying Bishop Long have all R. Kelly albums” or something of that nature… I was like? Huh? For real? Are those two cases the same thing? (and trust me I absolutely LOATHE R Kelly and his music)… but seriously, that’s your Bishop Long defense? *smh*
Disheartening…
The fact that the person used crucify to describe what’s happening to Eddie speaks volumes. Sometimes, I think people who are less developed in their spiritual walk look to these men as gods. The blanket support it a little disgusting. And when I first heard it, I though to myself “yeah, I can believe that.” Only because I know women who have gone to their pastor in economic need, and the pastor then uses that as an opportunity to coerce them into sex. It becomes this thing of if you want the church to help you, you have to help the church, with the pastor representing the church. It happens more often than we would like to admit.
I went to a church in college that was comprised of mostly co-eds b/c the church was close to campus. One day, me and my three friends, (one male, two female) were walking to our car after service. We had stayed a bit to chat it up with some of our friends who came. As we were walking down the street, the pastor pulls up and asks why we were walking. We told him we were going to our car and he looks at my one friend (female) and says “well someone as fine as yourself should not have to walk…next time you come to church, be sure to park in the space next to the pastor…I’ll let them know to look for you.”
This man was married with kids our age. I’ll never forget how brazen he was and how arrogant he was in assuming she wouldn’t be offended, but flattered at the gesture.
So yeah, I believe it happens a lot more than folks think.
I have not read enough about the civil suit to form an actual opinion as to whether or not I think he is guilty, however, even Michael Jackson was able to say that the allegations against him were false. Like…the most you can say in your defense is that you are not a perfect man?
Also, on a more personal note, I was totally disturbed by the comments on my twitter timeline by my friends (and by friends, I mean the people that I know and love in real life). This scandal was bringing out the worst in them and I often didn’t recognize their thoughts and opinions. Inappropriate jokes, Christianity bashing, etc. Twitter is the mob mentality at its worst.
I almost deactivated my account. Almost.
“Also, on a more personal note, I was totally disturbed by the comments on my twitter timeline by my friends (and by friends, I mean the people that I know and love in real life). This scandal was bringing out the worst in them and I often didn’t recognize their thoughts and opinions. Inappropriate jokes, Christianity bashing, etc. Twitter is the mob mentality at its worst.”
I feel for you. It is a shame that these people do not have more respect for you. I have not heard or have been sent any jokes. The conversations I have had are in the family and with one family friend that is a member of NB. The jokes have been in my family as we wondered about his hair and him being guilty of sending bathroom pics, period. We are all Christians and we enjoy laughing and having a good time. However, even in joking there are rules; #1 there is a line that cannot be crossed.
Where is that line? It’s blurry and moves.
Where’s #5? And where are all the VSBs in SoCal?
*gimme some glitter*
Ok ok… I see it’s updated now…
you’re making too many demands.
Initially, I thought, “nah.” then i read the court documents…then i saw the nutty professor workout-fits…then i saw the hair piece in the media photos of him… The pics he sent are highly questionable.
For those saying there is no reason to come forward for se.xual abuse
That’s true however this is a CIVIL lawsuit. They have all stated it was consesual and all (except one ) were
Of legal age of consent. They aren’t alleging molestation or force. Simply that he used his influence to “coerce” them
Which all everything else aside is some bull in itself cause If that’s the case several ninjas from my past
Can get hit up. So yeah there is a potential monetary reason for the allegations
I also think if not for the ho.mo.se.xual
“They aren’t alleging molestation or force. Simply that he used his influence to “coerce” them”
this is the part i am unsure about. its like when women supposedly “sleep their way up the company ranks” and then go back and claim sexual harassment. they aren’t taking responsibility for their actions, especially if it wasn’t forced. but i don’t have the entire story. but the whole “influence” thing puzzles me.
sometimes you know what you are getting yourself into, but this situation is complicated by Christianity and the varying degrees of influence it has on different people (reminds me of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown and similar circumstances)
LOLOL. Good point. I could def try some dudes on this account. Sheesh.
I feel as though there is a lot of legalese going on in between the lines.
LOL @ Shay you ain’t neva lied! I was thinking the same thing. Like, “Da hayle? That’s illegal? I’ve been ‘coerced’ once or twice in my younger days mydamnself.” Seriously, I’d like to see the law (or have someone explain it to me in layman’s terms) that makes this a crime.
This is the part that kind of breaks my heart. I think people just haven’t really had access to information on what sex abuse (or abuse in general) really looks like.
MOST abuse starts with a grooming process. The perp “draws in” their target by making them feel special and loved. Then they gradually start violating the victim’s boundaries while saying things like “What’s wrong? I’m only blah blah.” Basically it’s just a gradual denial of the victim’s reality and their own sense of bodily autonomy and self preservation. It’s easier on a perp to have a victim who won’t fight back and will feel too ashamed to tell anyone what’s going on.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Long groomed boys for years before escalating it to intercourse. He probably waited until they were teens specifically so their stories would be doubted and folks would think, “Well they were almost grown! They could’ve said no!” But if you’ve gone through this process where a leader of the community with IMMENSE power has told you how “special” your bond is and that you have no reason to feel bad, nothing bad happened– it’s really, really hard to hold on to your own sense of reality.
As far as the law goes, it really varies from state to state. From my standpoint, as an activist, I don’t care about legal definitions of things. The law is inadequate. It’s only recently that laws have acknowledged that a husband can rape his wife.
For me, any sexual contact that you did not consent to or where your ABILITY to actually give consent was compromised– is abuse. And everybody deserves to have that pain heard whether the courts acknowledge it or not.
Some resources:
http://www.stopitnow.com/learn
http://malesurvivor.org/myths.html
This one explains what grooming might look like for kids, adolescents, and adults:
http://dcf.vermont.gov/protectkids/educate/how_it_happens/grooming
Great comment.
It is a great comment. It is also great that the law favors the victim first and foremost. However, (and not that I’m defending Long) in this day & age people are crazy and do/say whatever to grab attention. Allegations of this matter are serious and unfortunately some people play with it for personal gain.
I’d like to know more about they ability to give consent – I know that this describes a certain mental capacity that you would have to have but how is that measured?
Great information!
STANDING OVATION…..
Really, thank you. Because they used the term “coerced” we think “well, they did say forced” but honestly that’s classic abuser tactics. They groom a kid and then go in for the “well, if you really loved me/cared, you’d do this…” and so on.
I used to work with abused kids and it’s heartbreaking how many adults to this type of sh*t to kids. I mean, the stats say something like 1 out of every 4 women and 1 out of every 5 guys has been raped/molested. But, having worked with the kids, I feel like it’s more like half of all boys and girls. Seriously…it’s a silent, shameful epidemic that more people should get a clue about.
this was a very well-written and thoughtful comment!!! thank you for sharing–i have the exact same thoughts and have made a similar argument in discussion about this whole matter.
as a matter of fact, my church’s pastor just preached on this idea of “influence” that leaders have. its really no joke.
Well said!!
I’m sorry if my comment made it sound like I was making light of sexual abuse. I am not. If the accusations are true, EL is guilty – if nothing else he is guilty of taking advantage of his position of moral authority and betraying his congregation who looks to him for moral leadership. I understand how grooming works, however, there is a point when people are expected to take personal responsibility. Is that point at age 16? The state of GA seems to think so. Maybe it isn’t. Maybe it is 17. 18. 21.
Abuse is abuse though. If someone tries to “get sex” from you when you’ve said no but keeps badgering you anyway, intimidating you, threatening to withdraw affection if you don’t consent, or any other manipulative tactics….that’s not healthy. Some might not define that experience as rape or abuse, but it’s definitely coercive and dismissive of your personal boundaries.
And this happens to adults all the time. It’s kind of the “normal” way we see sexual relationships. And the greater the power imbalance, the more vulnerable we are to abuse. It’s how so many women and girls are pressured into sex without condoms. And why, when a teen girl carries a pregnancy to term, the father is usually a grown man.
Coercive relationships and power imbalance are real and they’re very harmful to individuals and society.
I think the emasculation and ostracism isn’t worth the money. I just seems like a lot of ridicule, backlash, embarrassment, and ostracism for some money. But I could totally be wrong. With some people, you can’t put nothing past them for money.
Idk how I feel about the allegations. Was I surprised? No. Something never did sit right with me concerning him, though that doesn’t make him guilty of any wrong doing. It’s unfortunate that his actions lent any credibility to the allegations. Why would a leader put himself in a position where he was taking young boys on lavish vacations without the safety net of witnesses??? Where was his wife? Where were his OWN children??? Even if he isn’t guilty, he certainly didn’t guard his reputation as he should have. As a leader the Word specifies avoiding the very appearance of evil, as to avoid situations like this. Though he may be innocent, he looks guilty. I pray for the sake of his family and congregation, that is guilty only of not guarding his reputation more carefully.
Why would a leader put himself in a position where he was taking young boys on lavish vacations without the safety net of witnesses???
to his credit, if he was a youth football coach who took his whole team to Disneyland after they won a championship, no one would bat an eye. I don’t know if the trips themselves were bad ideas.
Negative Champ. In this day and age, even coaches get the side eye for seemingly appropriate interaction with their team. The one thing that makes me feel so much more like he did it is the fact that he’d take these boys, one-on-one for trips and such. That’s what the other commentor was talking about. He would take trip with the boys one-on-one. No other chaperone, church officials, wife, his kids, etc. So, that can definitely lend itself to appearing inappropriate at the very least when an accusation like this emerges.
Hmmm…I think they would.
No chaperones/witnesses for any sort of trip of that nature would make me ask why, especially these days when kids turn up missing and such. It’s a liability disaster. I could fully trust an adult (which I never do, just an example) and still want others there as extra sets of eyes.
Just sayin…
I don’t know if the trips themselves were bad ideas. .
One on one?!?! Yeah, NO!
Exactly…to New Zealand, and Kenya? For real?
PRECISELY… Where were his own children? And for those that watched the “sermon” yesterday, I wonder if the young man that yelled “I Love You, Dad!” was a ‘spiritual’ or biological son. Am I wrong for that?
Not sure what the he.ll happened. But yeah if this was a woman alleging “coerced consensual s.e.x” umm there wouldn’t even be a scandal
Just my opinion
Right. I mean it happens w/ women everyday… a famous/wealthy man who coerced himself into consensual chex…
1. A woman meets a ball player.
2. Woman #swoons
3. Ball player wants chexual relations; woman is unsure.
4. Ball players spits best game; woman wavers ball player got dough & he’s cute.
5. Woman gives up drawls.
Now… substitute woman w/ legal age guy, & ball player w/ Eddie Long.
QED.
But yeah if this was a woman alleging “coerced consensual s.e.x” umm there wouldn’t even be a scandal
Just my opinion
***nodding head***
Really? So, if he’d gotten the woman drunk, followed her into the bathroom, and “convinced” her to have sex with him, there wouldn’t be a scandal. . . hmm. . .
It has happened. In some cases it’s usually seen as adultry and the fact that this person is a minster and trusted does make a huge difference.
*minister
I need some coffee!
I don’t know how I feel about this statement… While there may be some truth to it (there is), I think it almost devalues the validity of the current “victims” (which they are in my opinion)… Yes, women have a tougher road to travel in those types of abuse, but it’s kinda of inappropriate imho to do a contrast/compare in such situations… It helps nobody….
Just my $0.2.
“One of the more interesting and disturbing developments with this story is the literal frothing of the mouth some of us educated black folk get when presented with the opportunity to speak badly and joke about Christianity and Christians. I’m not suggesting that any religion should be immune to critique and ridicule, but I wonder if some of these people would be as quick to clown Islam or Judaism in the same manner.”
It’s not just Black people, and it’s probably not just Christians, either.
To a lot of people all over the world, and for a lot of [good and bad] reasons, their own religion is something you just don’t touch.
It’s not just Black people, and it’s probably not just Christians, either.
To a lot of people all over the world, and for a lot of [good and bad] reasons, their own religion is something you just don’t touch.
I know it’s not just black people, but i’m talking about black people in particular who hold Christianity to standards they don’t hold other religions to. It’s like they’re waiting for any opening possible to talk sh*t about Christians.
You Champ that’s interesting that you point that out because I feel as I’ve gotten older and more educated, the ideas of organized religion and the Bible seem to make less and less sense. I hate that I feel that way but most of my black
boughieeducated friends who went to church as a kid/teen are starting to feel the same way.I actually had this conversation over drinks with friends and coworkers a few months ago. I posed the question, is there a direct correlation to the amount of education one has to their ability to believe unequivocally in organized religion, specifically Christianity??
It’s interesting. Because one would have to think its damn near impossible to be an highly educated well read individual and be able to still take something as the Bible at face value..
Really?
Yes, there are devout Christians who are also highly educated professionals.
You proved Champs point here, unintentionally or not.
I wasn’t saying that there aren’t but it would seem that science and technology are the antithesis of the belief in institutionalized religion and its teachnings..
I’m not saying one is right or wrong, I’m just speaking on my own stance..
Not to mention, some of these black professionals who are so-called “devout Christians” only use the church for networking purposes or as a status symbol to try to portray themselves as this “pillar of the community” when in fact they’re doing just as much if not more wrong than Joe-blow “stay my ass home” on Sundays.. Know so many people that fall into this category.
eh, idk.
with me, there’s no correlation with education and my spiritual awareness/presence in the church. as i’ve gotten older, ive gotten more educated (working on phd currently). but as i’ve gotten older i’ve also gotten more connected to the church and the stronger my relationship with God. and i have a lot of other highly educated friends who are the same. now, we may not all just take a pastor’s/minister’s message at face value. i think any so-called Christian (educated or not) worth his/her weight in salt know that is necessary and ok to question the bible and people’s interpretations of it. not to do so is actually of no spiritual benefit (as is actually stated in the bible).
all that to say, religion is what anybody chooses to make it. their are gonna be corrupt ppl who use their religion to their personal and/or political advantage. there are also ppl who just want and need something to believe in and help them structure their lives. ALL ppl have a moral code–its the source we each draw it from that’s different.
Yea I agree with #3 100%. I was raised catholic in a mostly white church. While I know the catholic church has their own drama, I was always bothered how the pastors in “black churches” were making bank. Like I wanted to attend and felt like I should worship among other black people but I could not shake that feeling. It feels being a pastor is the next hustle but it feels like mad people are in divinity school, like on some “I am going to law school” hustle.
….continued from my previous post……
The priest in a catholic church appears to represent more of the persona of Jesus. However, going to the “black church” and the person sitting w/ the bank is usually the pastor gets the side eye. Did I enter a church or a fortune 500 company?
i agree with most of what you said, except for this;
‘The priest in a catholic church appears to represent more of the persona of Jesus’
…it seems that too many of them only ‘appear’ to represent,considering the increasing chexual abuse cases of minors that seem to be crippling the church at the moment…
I think Catholic churches are similar with the god-like complexes you think you might see in the Black church. If not worse. The Pope, anyone? Not pointing fingers, just bringing to light there are many problems in the church of today, which most Christians know and understand. I guess everyone else missed the memo.
what? Catholicism have the same negative aspect as the black church. Look up how much money the Vatican has. Matter fact look up Mother Teresa and how much money actually went to the poor and where she got some of her money( One source Baby Doc). I’m not trying to point of pointing fingers but there is going to be negative aspect of every major religions.
Comparing the Catholic Church to the ‘black church’ is too broad a comparison. There is no one ‘black church’. The Catholics have a centralized hierarchy that ultimately goes back to Rome while most black churches are Protestant and have various degrees of independence which does open the door for preacher entrepreneurs starting up their own church and making themselves a bishop.
I just wanted to make that distinction because most black preachers are not like Eddie Long and are part timers who get much of their income from other jobs. The independent megachurches hog a lot of attention because so many people are attracted to them and the leaders often become these personalities but trust the biggest megachurches are not the black ones.
GREAT ACES THINK ALIKE! WASSUP CLUB!
See my comment begging the EXACT same question, below.
Folks have asked me to write a sternly-worded letter to the Bishop. But I kinda wanna wait this one out. I want to see what happens. I don’t trust him. He reminds me of Bishop Don Juan. And them pics? Aaron Neville is somewhere HEATED that Eddie Long don stole his swag.
We shall see. But the intellectual masturbator bloggers will run with this so hard. They will cum multiple times off their own entries from this scandal. Alls I got to offer is roast. And roast I shall (when the time is right).
I figured this comment would end up in moderation. *deep sigh*
But the intellectual masturbator bloggers will run with this so hard. They will cum multiple times off their own entries from this scandal. Alls I got to offer is roast.
this paragraph just made me think of some really nasty pot roast
Aaron Neville somewhere HEATED over his stolen swag!
Girl, THIS was too funny! Yes, I’m with you cant comment on this matter at this time but I too DON’T trust Eddie Long.
But when you do decide to comment on, I want to be the FIRST to read it!
Random sidenote. The blog title is “6 thoughts about…” but the URL is “5-thoughts.” Did I find Waldo or did you just want someone to notice that?
@Luvvie
Via Twitter: NEW POST: 5 Thoughts about The Bishop Eddie Long Scandal http://bit.ly/aWT8WC
then…
NEW POST: 6 Thoughts about The Bishop Eddie Long Scandal http://bit.ly/aWT8WC (Made a couple edits)
Oh. Well carry on then.
It was originally 10 thoughts when I first saw it in draft format. But you didn’t hear that from me.
Champ just needs to go on an edit-fasting.
An issue I’ve been struggling with and hope I can get some VS insight:
Let’s examine a church not even as big as New Birth, but moderately mega, say 5K members. Would you feel some kind of way about the pastor living flamboyantly-him and his wife driving Benzes on 20s, STAY rocking new expensive tailored suits/clothing. . .?
Long has said that he’s not some storefront preacher, but as the head/CEO of a major corporation, he deserves to live the way he does. I’ve heard the pastor of this hypothetical church I described say the same thing in more or less words, and I think a lot of modern day church leaders have adopted the same view. I guess after hearing about numerous people questioning what he had and how lavishly he lived, his response one Sunday was that not only does he work hard for what he has, but also that he represents the church, and we shouldn’t want our leader looking any kind of way. That struck a nerve with me, and I’m wondering what opinions are on that.
tl:dr Should your pastor drive a Benz? Or a Camry? Or should we even care? What do you think about these local celebrities-pastors who can’t leave their inner chambers without their entourages and hoopla? Is it that crucial? Again, is it our concern?
I don’t think that anyone should care what pastors drive until they can figure out why the banks that took bailouts get to keep the money and the foreclosed houses and withhold loans from taxpayers who bailed them out. The church is a business (Luke 2:49) and Jesus ran it as such. He had 12 on his staff with different specialties, aka “entourage.” Jesus was not poor. How could he have been? He had use of boats, and soldiers gambled for his clothes when he died. Why would they gamble for rags? Anyway, if the tithes allow and the preacher is not arrogant, I believe they should be rewarded for being leaders, providing spiritual guidance/support and doing things the right way. Those who are not will be judged accordingly soon enough.
Luke 2:49 “and he said unto them, how is you sought me? Wist ye not , I must be about my father’s business”. Who translates this, into Jesus running a business for GOD? Also, I have heard the, Judas was the treasurer translation. There are many scriptures that refute these lies. One is “A fortune made by a lying tongue is a fleeting vapor and a deadly snare”. Educated black folk should not bash christians, I agree. But chistians should be educated on what is and is not in their bibles. The rich will always justify their riches, just like the slavemaster justified slavery, especially if it comes from the labors of others.
“if the tithes allow”
I feel like until the church’s community needs have been met, the tithes actually don’t allow. . but *shrugs*
One of my previous pastors drives a Bentley. It was a gift.
I dunno, on the one hand I guess I see why prosperity gospel is a problem for some people, Christian or not. For me, not so much….perhaps because I grew up in whatever they call it these days…heretical, prosperity megachurches. Today I came to a realization though. I now attend a much smaller church than I did as a kid. And they’re preaching the same Word. But my church today is not Black. My pastor is not riding in a Bentley. But the Word is the same. The message is the same. Funny how that works.
You have to remember that prosperity gospel is very controversial as a theology, and it’s a very new concept in the big picture history of The Church (i.e picking up where the book of Acts leaves off). A lot of people are going to have a problem with new concepts, regardless of the topic. I’ve listened to Creflo Dollar off and on for almost half my life now (yes I was a teenager loving me some Creflo; mostly because he was easiest for me to digest at the time). Every message I hear from him isn’t about giving more money to him so you can be ballin like him (none of his messages are like that, but everyone seems to think this is the case lol). But, let the gossipfolks tell it and that’s ALL he talks about. At best, what I’ve picked up from these preachers over the years is that I need to tithe out of obedience, plain and simple, because that’s what the Bible says–in numerous places. And regardless of whose mouth this message comes out of, it’s written in plain English in the Bible itself….so who am I to refute it?
Now, you could argue that some prosperity preachers suffer from a lack of balance between preaching God wanting you to prosper versus not letting money be what defines you. The Bible addresses both, but most people have selective memory in which they want to remember, depending on whose side they’re arguing for on any given day. I don’t go to everybody’s church so I can’t make this call on who is doing it right or wrong. Unfortunately everyone is lumped in together.
I like how you broke this down. I struggle with The Church being for profit. My belief is that the ministry is to minister to souls, part of that being outreach/mission work. Some of that bentley/mansion/jewelry money can go to enhance their outreach/mission. I am open to understanding the reasons behind living such a lavish lifestyle but right now it doesn’t sit well with me.
Yeah but think about this: if their calling is to preach “prosperity gospel,” a fairly new type of teaching, would you want to hear this from a preacher who was broke? I’d look at him crazy if he was preaching all this to me and my car was better than his. Especially considering that for thousands of years, people have been teaching that you’re supposed to be a broke Christian? In that context (which I drew from my own conclusions not some brainwashing), it makes a little sense to me. I don’t know if they need to be so flashy or what have you (though, I have never seen a pastor be flashy about their riches), but at the same time just think about that logically. My pastor who got the Bentley hasn’t raised his salary in 30 years of ministry, but people have problems with him having a big house somewhere. But, I do understand where you’re coming from. I’m still trying to figure out where I’m at on the spectrum. I know that I don’t know the full accounting of my pastor’s private finances. I read somewhere Rick Warren tithes 90% of his income back to the church, and paid the church back for all the salary he was paid over the years. Because he’s that rich. But I’m sure somebody somewhere has a problem with Rick Warren and his evil “megachurch.”
At the end of the day, money talks and you can reach more people with more resources, bottom line. That’s never a dispute.
“At best, what I’ve picked up from these preachers over the years is that I need to tithe out of obedience, plain and simple, because that’s what the Bible says–in numerous places. And regardless of whose mouth this message comes out of, it’s written in plain English in the Bible itself….so who am I to refute it?”
“At the end of the day, money talks and you can reach more people with more resources, bottom line. That’s never a dispute.”
Okay, I think I just semi-fell in love with Liz. lol. If a brotha could swoon then I would swoon. Pause.
Who wants to hear about anyone’s gospel or Christianity if the messenger is broke and sick? You can reach more people with more resources. There are preachers out there who have perverted the message of prosperity, but that shouldn’t take away from those with more integrity. People attribute prosperity gospel to just money, but it actual message is that God wants us to be prosperous, or whole, in our soul (mind, will, emotions), health, relationships, and finances.
I have come to a realization some years back: Religion is just like a career… Some are better suited to our personalities while others are not… You may just be one who is more in tune with a gospel for souls, while someone else might be more inclined to a gospel that preach about prosperity… Neither of you is right or wrong, you just react/absorb things differently…
Like many things in life, it helps to literally “shop around” to find the theology that is best suited to your inner belief system… I found mine (to the utter dismay of my momma n’em)…
“At best, what I’ve picked up from these preachers over the years is that I need to tithe out of obedience, plain and simple, because that’s what the Bible says–in numerous places. And regardless of whose mouth this message comes out of, it’s written in plain English in the Bible itself….so who am I to refute it?”
I attend a New Testament Church and we believe tithing is OT (the 10% part, and it was 10% of EVERYTHING back then). We give as the Lord has prospered, and we are NOT told that our only giving is to the church.
Thus, Doctors Without Borders and Habitat for Humanity are among those that I give to.
I think the problem is oversight and over giving directly to the minsters and churches. The church and it’s trustees should determine salaries, etc., but my impression is that the preacher is in charge of everything and calls ALL the shots.
The alternative could be to limit your giving, and attendence, at these types of churches.
okay. I disagree with you.
*luker coming out of hiding & newbie*
I believe tithing can be giving to a homeless person on the street, a smile/uplifting words to someone down in spirits, paying for the groceries for the person behind you in a checkout line…doesn’t necessarily have to go in a collection plate of a brick & mortar building. Tithing to me is giving of ones self openly & freely. I have issues with “profit ministries,” but that soliloquy will have to wait–only have an hour for lunch.
Regarding the allegations against EL, My problem w/this isn’t the gay aspect…it’s his alleged hypocrisy. Preaching & marching against homosexuality when he may be…lame. Cheating on his wife…sucks. Regardless if the men are “scorned” he totally abused his power.
@DawnGigi,
Welcome! …and Ditto on everything.
Tithing to me is giving of ones self openly & freely. .
I’m right there witcha!
so do i.
I agree. I think folks take what they want to from the Bible and apply it to their lives how they see fit. 10% of your income does NOT have to go directly to the church. It doesn’t say that anywhere in the Bible. Jesus spoke out against the church as a building. He preached that where folks come together in his name, he will be present and fellowship will happen accordingly. Chuch is just a name….church is just a building. Church (the building) isn’t the essence of God or what Jesus spoke of.
So yeah, you should give and if you like, give to the church. But, it’s not required to give 10% directly to the church.
It depends on the situation:
Not all pastors are/were full-time and they choose not to be supported by the Church. Or they may have had a job that they retired from and depending on it, receive generous compensation.
Spouses make alot of money. My best friends dad is a pastor, his mom is the head accountant for a large retirement organization. She makes A LOT of money and naturally being an account has good money managing skills.
I can’t really think of to many more exceptions and in the case of Eddie Long? I have no problem with you driving a Bentley, huge house, wife stay fresh, but not a damn person in your congregation should be struggling financially because as a shepherd its your responsibility to reasonably look out for them.
but not a damn person in your congregation should be struggling financially because as a shepherd its your responsibility to reasonably look out for them.
THIS!
All this money comes from tithing. People give their hard earned $$$ in the belief that the people at the top of the pyramid (scheme) will do God’s will with their money. A flat 10% tax hurts the lower income brackets and favors the high income brackets. It’s no different with tithing. You either believe that the Bentley is God’s work or you believe that this man is pulling of a pyramid scheme.
Let’s examine a church not even as big as New Birth, but moderately mega, say 5K members. Would you feel some kind of way about the pastor living flamboyantly-him and his wife driving Benzes on 20s, STAY rocking new expensive tailored suits/clothing. . .?
thats the thing: even though much of what you’re saying makes logical sense, it just doesn’t sit right with me. and yea, i think there are certain status symbols (bentleys, private jets, etc) that suggest a certain level of “look at me!” ostentation, and that mindset seems to be the antithesis of what most people are looking for in a church
Champ, I’m certainly with you on this but your point is only a nuance to my biggest problem with the whole idea of a ballin’ pastor: what happened to “it’s easier for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle that it is for a rich man to go to heaven” (Matthew 19:24)? The bible explicitly says this. Did everyone forget? On top of that, couldn’t homeboy with the Rolls/Bentley etc, etc, be using the minimum that the car is (100k-400k) to do community outreach programs? Or tutor kids? Or help failing schools in the system? There is always some bleeding faction that someone as the head of a megachurch (which is supposed to be a “staple of the community”) can put more money. It would certainly go to better use than driving a ridiculously expensive car. There is no way that anyone will be able to convince me that a man of the cloth needs to buy extravagant cars to convert members. It stinks of dishonesty and was one of many things that made me agnostic. If you find yourself defending this as some have up there, then you really need to question your church if not your religion, because it’s not right.
This thing is simple. You have someone in a position where they need to look out for the welfare of a lot of people. You need them focused on that work. If they themselves are worrying about where their next meal is coming from, having to rely on public transportation to go visit someone sick in the hospital, how much can they really give of themselves to others?
Regardless of what you may think of religious institutions, the vast majority of their leaders are men and women who spend a lot of time working for their communities, members, or parishioners. Everyone is always going to have a different view of what we feel is “enough” but given that it’s the members who give this to their leaders and thus are in control of the situation, I think a lot of time my first response as an outsider is more out of player-hate, than any real concern that someone is taking advantage.
Word? This argument holds no water. There is a HUGE gap between wondering where your next meal is coming from/relying on public transportation and having a Bentley or a private jet. HUGE!
What is that gap?
Perhaps a Honda and a modest house? Aside from actual cost/scale, what is really the difference? You dislike Bentleys and jets but are down with Hondas and Jet Blue?
“Let’s examine a church not even as big as New Birth, but moderately mega, say 5K members.”
Mega churches are fun tourist attractions. They have their place.
Believe-and-achieve sermons are great motivational speeches. I play TD Jakes’ motivational messages on my iPod when I need a boost.
But not everyone is spiritually satisfied by superficial religious services. For them, there is Daniel and the Revelation!
“Would you feel some kind of way about the pastor living flamboyantly-him and his wife driving Benzes on 20s, STAY rocking new expensive tailored suits/clothing. . .?”
Who am I to stop adult people dead set on giving all their money to Eddie, living on $2 a day, and taking public transportation everywhere so that Eddie can live in a mansion? If you refuse to think for yourself, then someone else will think for you — and take your cash.
Don’t save them.
They don’t wanna be saved.
“Long has said that he’s not some storefront preacher, but as the head/CEO of a major corporation, he deserves to live the way he does.”
The board of directors may vote him out if superior business judgment so dictates. Let’s hope the board is not complicit in any sexual or financial misconduct at New Birth and LongFellows. How deep does the rabbit hole go? **sticking my toe into it**
My opinion is very personal as I was raised catholic but grew up to lean (and agree) more towards Eastern philosophies than anything…
I don’t necessarily care what a pastor is driving and/or wearing and/or doing… Being a pastor (from my understanding) is a job, and if your job makes you prosperous then you shall prosper…. My un-easiness comes when some members are hard on their luck and not being helped while the pastor is living it up… that would make me uneasy… because (from my understanding) the job comes with helping other members first…
I guess it all depends on your personal set of values… Is success achieved by having a bunch of material stuff? Is the ministry of said pastor centered around success? Then of course, it only makes sense that he’ll have all that stuff…
Now if the Dalai Lama starts rolling in a Bentley, I might have a problem…
I’m sure this reply thread is dead and gone by now. EddieLong’sCareer. I had a busy day today and couldn’t login to check responses. But I thoroughly enjoyed all of them. I don’t think we’ve quite reached a consensus on this, but I’m glad to know that I’m not the only one being conflicted by this.
1. I moved to a new city, and haven’t quite found a church home yet. So I fully agree that tithing, is a mandate (non-optional) for Christians, but I have not been paying it to a church, but rather to Red Cross. (I’ve actually fallen off the tithing wagon in the past few months, but that’s another issue.)
2. Would I rather my pastor ride Hondas and Jet Blue? No, I want him to be successful. I owe a great deal of my spiritual maturity to him, and he should be properly rewarded. He/she sacrifices his time and life constantly to meet the needs of the congregation. He also needs to be a shining example of the the blessed life we are promised if we adhere to the Will of God. But there is a sharp boundary when I see these leaders crossing from spiritual leaders to local celebs as their popularity increases. They live in blatant excess. And this blatant excess ranges from a new Porsche or Bentley convertible parked in the pastor’s spot every few months to you demanding that the walkways be cleared by your posse as you walk to your seat. huh? it’s like that now?
I again appreciate the responses and will take them all into consideration.
first of all, i didn’t know there was a wikipedia page for 2 Girls 1 Cup. shocking.
regarding the bishop, when allegations first made news I was like “okay, this happens every couple years/months, different person same situation.” then i started speculating about motives because accusers were coming out like tiger wood’s mistresses. but then i considered how hard it is for men (black men esp) to deal with homosocial relations and asked myself “how would publicly admitting to voluntary relations with him benefit them?”
i don’t know. this situation is sad. like the champ said, I hope they are lying
Perception is reality. Guilty in the court of public opinion.
Hmm..this write-up could have easily made this story into a joke, so I’m going to give you props for not taking that angle. That’s more Panama anyway from what I’ve noticed.
I feel like when I heard about this story my first impression was that
A) it sounds like the Boondocks Tyler Perry episode and
B) that it’s unusual for black men to go public with allegations of being sexually abused/molested.
If I were going to toss a C) in there I’d also say that
C) Although I can acknowledge the double standard of veracity when it comes to men being sexually abused versus women, it sounded strange to me that so many black men (the ones who are telling the truth) would allow this to happen to them. For women, it’s easy to say oh he overpowered her–but for other men?? I don’t know. Sounds suspect, and I mean that as a double entendre. And *head hung low in shame* the fact that it happened in Atl didn’t help any.
I think it’s fair to say we’ll never know what happened. But I think black people, educated or not, are going to be defensive when it comes to our community laundry being aired in public, whether it be the church or another institution. These kinds of stories are SO cloudy, but one thing I will bet on is that we haven’t seen the really *shocking* piece of this yet. Something crazy juicy and ridiculous always comes up in these. things where you didn’t think it could get worse…and then it does.
Additionally, it’s hard for me (being an educated black person–and Episcopalian no less) to understand how tpeople who become so vulnerable to the Church that they think a man (incorrectly and unofficially) named Bishop Eddie Long who apparently drinks muscle milk like it’s holy water could be as omnipotent as he believed himself to be and willed his congregants to believe. It contradicts itself–multimillion dollar mega-churches with Men’s Fitness Magazine models as their leaders are in DIRECT contradiction to any kind of modesty and humility prescribed by Jesus, God or clerics who wrote the Bible. If you can believe in a Bishop Eddie Long, then you’re truly a sheep in the flock.
I just don’t get how you get to that point of belief.
The unfortunate reality is that for what ever reason the churches led by these ‘personalities’ like BEL are the ones that are growing the most. All the mainline denominations are in either maintenance or decline. I and my siblings grew up United Methodist but they are both members of non-denominational churches now that they feel are more “Word filled” than the Methodism we grew up on. And both of them are masters degree plus having people who are not what most folk would call ‘sheep’. For good or bad there is something very attractive to religious people about upstart churches that heavily reflect the personality of a founding preacher.
Hmm..this write-up could have easily made this story into a joke, so I’m going to give you props for not taking that angle. That’s more Panama anyway from what I’ve noticed.
umm…is that shots fired??
LMAO!! I think so.
Additionally, it’s hard for me (being an educated black person–and Episcopalian no less) to understand how tpeople who become so vulnerable to the Church that they think a man (incorrectly and unofficially) named Bishop Eddie Long who apparently drinks muscle milk like it’s holy water could be as omnipotent as he believed himself to be and willed his congregants to believe.
This made me laugh…:lol:
But on a more serious note, Religion is that powerful… and people NEED to believe in something. We all do.
My highly educated mother has yet to come to terms with me openly asserting that the choice of the new pope is a political (and bad) one… She is smart and has lots of common sense when it comes to any other subject, except for religious ones… She’s probably dedicating 2 rosaries to me every day to change “my mind and opinions on certain things the Catholic Church does”…. And trust me, I still have plenty of love for the actual institution and most of its teachings, I am just lucid enough to see where it’s bamboozling its followers… that step is often too hard to take for most folks, educated/smart or not…
it sounded strange to me that so many black men (the ones who are telling the truth) would allow this to happen to them. For women, it’s easy to say oh he overpowered her–but for other men?? I don’t know. Sounds suspect
this whole line of thinking is problematic for me. as if men cant be sexually abused. its not all a PHYSICAL game of domination. often times, sexual abuse isnt about physical overpowering, its about mental and emotional hijacking. you dont think a man could be manipulated and/or “coerced” into sleeping with another man?? esp by one who he trusts, some one who is a powerful influence and is highly respectable in his church/community?? gtfooh.
@Gem,
Agreed!
#1 On No wedding, No Womb – I didn’t even read the blog because couldn’t get past the about the author page. Why is she talking about her white husband and bi-racial children like she won them in Powerball? Why is the black child an afterthought? I can’t.
#4 I’m inclined to believe the accusations are true, since men don’t lie about gay molestation. That said, since they were of legal age and this isn’t a criminal case, they’re going to have a hard time proving anything in court.
#5 Pastor’s aren’t necessarily known for being up on technology. He’s probably just getting up on this newfangled MySpace thingamajig
#6 I had heard of Eddie Long since we was pastor to DeShawn Snow and her jooo-ree on the Real Housewives of ATL, but didn’t know much else about him
PSA: Since Champ has edited this post, my #5 now corresponds to #6 and my #6 now is the answer to #8. For now. *Tim Gunn voice* Carry on…
I guess you didn’t see his new sermon. Def was reading it off a ipad.
Wow!! I was just reading the paper and there was a whole 1/2 page dedicated to this story with a pic of Long…sure enough he was holding an iPad.
In a star trek suit (I read that on another blog and fell the eff out).
Beam me up scottie!
Beam me up scottie!
iDie…. Death by iPad trotting Bishop.
The threshold of proof is lower in Civil Court. I expect this to be settled out of court to keep the plaintiff’s attorneys from getting access to New Birth’s and Eddie Long’s books.
I believe he did the do with the “victims”, but I’m not understanding that they had girlfriends and wives as stated in the docs and other sources. What do their significant others think of them coming forth with these homosexual allegations? It seems a little odd that they would jeopardize their reputation as known heterosexual men. Maybe it’s a way to get back at Eddie Strong Long for those triflin remarks about the gay community. Everyone knows, DON’T MESS WITH THE GAYS or JEWS!!!!! They rule everything and once you eff with them ur career in pretty much tainted if not finished.
Meh. At the end of the day, *all* of those involved are my brothers in Christ, and I am not here to take sides or make judgments. Someday they will all have to stand before the throne and give an account of their lives. Meanwhile, their money will be rusting on the earfs, because it seems as though money is what this whole thing is about. Ironic, but not surprising.
That being said, the frothing of the mouths does bother me, precisely for the reasons you stated. But, I think about that on any given Sunday, not just this week.
I think the problem is that the main focus becomes less about God and more about celebrity and the experience of being at church. I can’t say for sure, since I’m Muslim. I like the mosque because we have different Shiekhs all the time. People don’t come to the mosque to hear Shiekh Adam, they come to the mosque to pray and the sermon is just like an extra gift. A lot of people don’t even stay for the sermon (I usually leave, unless its Friday prayer).
I understand that its two different faiths, but I’ve been to other places of worship (Buddhist Temples and Synagogues) and its kind of the same thing. Church is supposed to be about group worship. I don’t even understand how a priest could become a millionaire. I don’t understand how someone can stand in front of so many people every Sunday and lead a sermon, while being a total hypocrite.
It really should make people question their faith. I know I question my faith when I realize someone I believed in is a complete hypocrite. Its a very irritating issue.
It really should make people question their faith? Why? What did God do to them? Nothing. It should only make people question their faith if their faith was in man, not if their faith was in God. This is my problem with ‘religion’ (and I’m a Christian who loves my church and my pastor). ‘Religion’ includes too much stuff that has nothing to do with the God and the Bible and people get them all confused to the point where they can’t make the distinction. It’s like my church putting a Christmas tree on stage. I hate that mess! What part of the Bible is that?
Also on #6 – Harper’s did a profile on Black mega churches several months ago. Two highlights on New Birth – the author highlighted Eddie Long’s love of muscle vests in the pulpit to show off his figure, and that security kicked him out for having a recording device, despite showing proof that New Birth’s PR team gave him permission for the article.
BTW – did Eddie Long step down Sunday? There was a rumor he would, but I don’t know for sure
No. He said in his address that he would be there next Sunday. Black church ministers/pastors have to be “locked out” of the church in order for them to leave a lot of times. I am not trying to be funny. There is a serious lack of accountability in cases of scandal in the black church with ministers and the members. However, until there is hardcore proof, he should not have to step down.
He actually said he was going to fight the charges. I heard the same rumor that he was going to step down. Hopefully everything works out well and people will not be angry at God for something that men (allegedly) did.
This actually happened at another black megachurch a couple years ago here in Houston. He’s still the pastor though:
http://gcmwatch.wordpress.com/2008/04/02/wars-and-rumors-of-wars-open-homosexuality-hits-the-itc-campus/
For a second there I thought your link would be for the scandal at Brentwood B.C. a couple years ago:
“In October, 2003, Dr. Joe Ratliff, pastor of Brentwood Baptist Church in Houston, Texas, was given a two-month paid leave of absence; following allegations he sexually assaulted a 37-year-old man. Ratliff allegedly forced the man into a church office where he groped and kissed him. It was also alleged that the Pastor offered to pay for the victim to have sex. The victim sued both Ratliff and the church. The case was settled out of court.”
There is really is a “Gay Christian Movement Watch”… Whatna hell??? Who is their president, Eddie Long(stroke) (I crack myself up.
)?
This is really disturbing.
Champ, I have to agree with you on #5 there – or in the event this post is edited yet again, lol – I, too think that Laveranues Coles coming forward and talking about the sexual abuse he suffered was one of the bravest things any person could do. Because manhood is so tightly tied with sexuality, for a man to come forward and say (to some narrow minded folks) that that his sexuality had been tampered with as it were, is one of the most courageous things one could do.
I have dated quite a few men who had experienced sexual violence in their childhood, and I can tell you honestly that it messed them up pretty badly. To see a Black man admit to being abused and then seek help is a beautiful thing.
L
I only have a few thoughts.
1. I’m judgmental and based on these preliminary facts, he’s guilty as charged in my court.
2. His followers are not Christians because they have been worshiping him instead of a Christian God, based on what little I’ve heard from them. Also, they are blind, brainwashed, etc. etc. It’s quite scary.
3. We need to educate people more about sexual predators, because the majority don’t get it. This case and most sexual molestation is not about violent force. It’s about long-term coercion and mind games which lead the victim to believe that they are consenting when the physical finally comes into play. When the prey is younger predators use candy, toys, etc. to seduce. A lot of times all it takes is extra attention if the child is neglected or otherwise vulnerable.
If the allegations are true: A man used his position of power, celebrity proximity, and material wealth to seduce young, vulnerable men. He created a little group within his church to make it look like he was doing some good for the youth. In reality, he was gathering up prey that was JUST past the age of legal consent in his state but still young enough for him to easily have his way with them. I imagine single mothers handed their sons over willingly thinking they were getting a Black male mentor to fill the gap where their fathers were missing. Then he convinced their sons it would be a next level in their spirituality if they let him suck their dicks. There’s no legal crime against the young men, but there are moral & ethical crimes. But maybe there were legal crimes in relation to his church and position.
If the mothers would have been sending their 15/16/17 year old DAUGHTERS to some grown ass man, they would have thought twice, although I’m sure many would have still sent them due to rose colored glasses. And if the accusers were female, some folk would be saying they were just fast little hussies instead of saying they’re gay men out for revenge against a homophobe who condemned their “lifestyle.” Some folk would still be leaning toward a theory of revenge for being “cut off.” Blaming the victim is quite popular.
Preach and major cosign on every single word. People really just do not get it and that is why sexual abuse is so rife.
If Eddie Longs accusers had been female, society and it’s keepers would be working hard for some type of criminal indictment even if unrelated to the accusations. Females are favored with the benefit of the doubt and whether true or not always the victim & never the villain. Not literally but in the courts of general opinion, their victimization is given greater attention than the villainous possibilities. It does carry over to their treatment. Justice seeks revenge & payment where agreement seeks harmony. Double standards abound. Is it necessary, justifiable or harmonious? I don’t know. Men can’t say (emotional .& mental) or do (physical) half the ish a woman can and get away with it when brought into the legal realm. And who catches the brunt of the law: men. Women know it and use it to their advantage. Incredulous!
Are you saying women “cry” rape becuase we know we can?
APM some women have admitted falsely accusing rape but that’s far behind my point. Acknowledging a double standard in our treatment of people, guilty or innocent, proven or no.
@Seed of Life
Well said.
Well said.
RIGHT.ON.TIME!
I could not have said it better myself.
Yup!
3. We need to educate people more about sexual predators, because the majority don’t get it. This case and most sexual molestation is not about violent force. It’s about long-term coercion and mind games which lead the victim to believe that they are consenting when the physical finally comes into play. When the prey is younger predators use candy, toys, etc. to seduce. A lot of times all it takes is extra attention if the child is neglected or otherwise vulnerable.
absolutely. even many of our VSS/VSBs here seem to be completely out of touch. no pun.
1) He and/or his accusers will have to answer to God in the end like we all must do
2) That pic definitely needs a “pause” in the comments
3)The media gets its ratings off of drama nothing new. Spin a story to make it look like there could be insane corruption w/o saying anything concretely. Safe and effective for them bleep parties invloved.
Cults are very real and very powerful and that is what happened to these young boys. BEL took advantage of his position and exploited these youngs boys to satisfy his own disgusting urges. The young boys were impressionable and were made to believe that they were doing the “right” or “special” thing. Abuse is about manipulation, control, force, coercion, etc and it can happen to anyone at any age.
These boys are feeling angry, disappointed and ashamed right now after realizing that they were not “special” or “chosen ones” after all. It is not about sexuality or the gifts but about how sinful or how unfair this world is because like others are saying we should stop putting our faith in man, no matter what.
We give other people way too much power and it should stop, abuse has as many forms as there are people.
Abuse is about manipulation, control, force, coercion, etc and it can happen to anyone at any age.
Well said. I wish I could go back in time and make this very statement yesterday.
Good post!
We are missing a key point in all of this:
ALL people make mistakes (most of us don’t have our mistakes blasted on CNN). But not everyone lies about them.
If he is guilty of using his influence to coerce sex that’s a mistake that he has to reconcile with himself, his victims and God (and I don’t suggest making excuses for hurting others). But if he, as a man of God, premeditates and delivers lies to his congregation and a jury regarding the accusations that seems – different.
I have several thoughts.
1. I’ve observed AfAms in Long’s AGE cohort who are more concerned by the homosexual aspect of the claims than by the allegations that Eddie systematically targeted **minors** for sex. Some elders have suggested (aloud!) that the Black boys were disposable if they showed homosexual tendencies.
I think it’s OUTRAGEOUS that LongFellows students might be exposed to systematic predation as Eddie’s spiritual sons. Black society must protect its boys and girls, whether they grow up to be gay or straight or bi or tran-whatever. If he must stray, why can’t Eddie cheat on his wife with other **consenting adult** people (male or female)?
2. Eddie’s sermon was vague. He wants to avoid inconsistent commentary about the allegations. No Bill Clinton. His lawyers probably advised him against any statements that could be used to impeach him later. Notice that the 1st half of the sermon was doctrinal and delivered without wearing his glasses. BUT when it was time to address the allegations (2nd half of the sermon), Eddie put on his glasses and read from the script verbatim.
3. Eddie knows how many boys he touched and at what ages. **It might be zero boys.** He has an idea of what evidence exists. His lawyers are wise to muzzle him until they get a headcount and collect substantiating evidence. Some clients lie to their own legal representation, so substantiating evidence is important.
Ex:
Who went on what trips?
Who stayed in which hotel rooms?
How many condos were provided for “spiritual sons?” In which states? With what age of consent thresholds?
Which New Birth and LongFellows employees were assigned what roles wrt the “armor bearer” mentee boys?
4. Eddie’s family is not likely surprised by these allegations. Eddie’s cousin Rondy claims that he can name several family members and AfAm ministers who struggle with homosexuality. See gossipjacker dot net. (Just this month, Columbus, Georgia Baptist minister H. Randy Stephen committed suicide after his lover/partner outted them both at church.) FOR YEARS, even non-New Birth folks in Atlanta have observed Eddie and a rotating horde of teenage “spiritual sons” and “armor bearers” interacting in public, on trips, at the haberdashers, at restaurants, etc. The cars and gifts and monetary sponsorship and condos provided to a special subset of chosen boys were common knowledge.
5. The Atlanta newspaper published articles about how Mr and Mrs Long were the primary beneficiaries of a New Birth charity org. The congregation and donors were not fleeced. A member of Congress tried to make an inquiry about the money trail, too. If BJ Bernstein subpoenas Long’s financial records and shares them with the feds, then Eddie’s problems might be compounded.
6. People who carefully select church scandals as grounds to avoid organized religion or Christianity have had plenty of material to work with thanks to Swaggart and Jim Jones and the Branch Davidians and the Catholic priests and Haggard and sinners like me. Eddie Long’s good works didn’t sway them. Any of Eddie’s faults that may become exposed won’t change those people either.
Ummm… I don’t really have an opinion about the allegations but I do have an opinion about Eddie Long and Church leaders like him who in my opinion forget or just ignore the words of Christ: Matthew 19:21 – 26: Jesus said to him: If you want to be perfect, go sell your belongings and give to the poor and you will have treasure in heaven, and come be my follower 22 When the young man heard this saying, he went away grieved, for he was holding many possessions. 23 But Jesus said to his disciples:Truly I say to you that it will be a difficult thing for a rich man to get into the kingdom of the heavens. 24 Again I say to you, It is easier for a camel to get through a needles eye than for a rich man to get into the kingdom of God. 25 When the disciples heard that, they expressed very great surprise, saying: Who really can be saved? 26 Looking at them in the face, Jesus said to them: with men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.
Not a fan of the “Bishop”…
I wonder how some big-time preachers/pastors/bishops can refute the words of Christ and explain away their lavish lifestyles.
I’m indifferent when it comes to mega-churches and their leaders but my grandma loves her some Donnie McClurkin. She admires that he admitted being the victim of sexual abuse and that he has “struggled with homosexuality.” He lives a modest lifestyle and according to this http://trebord.wordpress.com/2009/09/14/donnie-mcclurkin/ he lives in the hood and I’m not mad at that at all.
Where have you been e-twin!!!
De-lurking to add a comment on this post. I love VSB and have been reading this site for a few months now and I have to say the comments sections are always fun a read.
In the interest of full disclosure I’m an atheist VSS, and while I have not been “frothing at the mouth” about this issue to harangue Christians about the evil monopoly being played at their expense by mega-churches – I can give my own anecdotal evidence that mega-churches exist to solely exploit (and exhort funds) from people who legitimately want to feel and be closer to God and a part of a vibrant and caring community of co-spiritualists. Corruption of the sort as thus far brought to light by the BEL is by far the tip of the ice berg. I eventually became atheist through a long process of analyzing my upbringing in the black Southern Baptist church, the unethical practices and down right hypocritical actions of my churches pastor who’d engaged in extra-marital affairs and impregnated young college co-eds who were members of the flock (which is why one should never be allowed to accept that they are “sheep in my view), and a few other issues too lengthy to discuss here.
Having felt cheated by a leader who was by-and-large a respected figure and a church hypocrisy board of elders who dismissed the pastor…only to reinstate him later because, in sum, he put butts in seats was a stunning show of a lack of accountability. And we were all just expected to accept this? Negative. I voted with my feet and left. I gradually came to a realization that to not want the things we’ve grown up being taught that everyone wants is a valid way to feel and to process what we do and don’t want in our lives – for me religion was one of those facets of my upbringing I didn’t believe in and didn’t need to live life.
Back to the subject. In my humble opinion the exposure of these abuse cases needs to spark some kind reaction in the Black community that not only censures prominent leaders in churches, political office, etc that preys on vulnerable youth. Whether the guys in question were 17 or 18 at the time doesn’t delegitimize the possibility there was sexual abuse, and we shouldn’t shame the victims here.
To close, and I apologize for the lengthy comment, the BEL should seriously reconsider the anti-gay thrust of this ministry. Of any group of people here living in the USA, and knows anything about civil rights activism, its Black Americans. And to claim that gays and lesbians don’t have the same civil rights our fore-bearers fought and died for for everyone, greatly undermines civil rights.
I appreciate your comment for a few reasons:
1) Most AmA’s won’t admit to being atheist. I’m always intrigued by why they are and the few I’ve encountered have similar stories of church gone wrong.
2) You show sympathy for those folks who are just longing to be close to God. That is the essence of why folks don’t want this to be true. They somehow think that it shows God in a bad light, when really, it just shows this man in a bad light. God is always the same…yesterday, today and forever.
3) It would be nice if the Black community policed our own in situations like this, but we’re (community-wide) too afraid of looking weak and fallable in the eyes of “other’s”….Pride always comes before the fall and Black folks stay tripping…
Re#1: AfAm Atheists could be a whole new post! And yes we are out there. I think that the black community sees atheism as taboo since much of our historical experience has made belief in god a source of strength and inspiration for the liberation struggles we’ve fought over the centuries. I’ve definitely gotten the impression that being absent of faith in God is a betrayal of that history. I disagree with this, but as I said. New post for another day if someone takes it on.
Re#2: I can’t help but feel compassion for thise in situations where it looks like their natural inclinations to seek community are being exploited. Churches are places where people may be vulnerable for any number of reasons and can therefore be exploited by someone who claims to offer them guidance. We’ve seen how money and sex have felled other church leaders, and yet people still fill the pews and give their hard earned tithes to these people who claim to have a direct-line to the Almighty.
I remember a particular sketch from In Living Color where Damon Wayans and Jim Carey were mocking televangelist preachers who boldly robbed the congregation when they didn’t tithe enough. I’ll post later if I find it on te YouTube.
Cosignature on #3
Obviously I’m not trying to change or influence your spiritual beliefs (or lack thereof) here in a blog discussion, but:
I eventually became atheist through a long process of analyzing my upbringing in the black Southern Baptist church, the unethical practices and down right hypocritical actions of my churches pastor who’d engaged in extra-marital affairs and impregnated young college co-eds who were members of the flock
and
Having felt cheated by a leader who was by-and-large a respected figure and a church hypocrisy board of elders who dismissed the pastor…only to reinstate him later
These are the failings of men. Mere mortals. Morally corrupt men. I can only imagine the level of betrayal and confusion they inflicted among their congregation, but the failing is that of men, not that of God. This is what saddens me so much about situations like this. People act like these pastors and “Bishops” are stand-ins for God and they are not. The fact that these men were horrible wolves in sheep’s clothing does not = God doesn’t exist. Everyone believes what they believe, but it just pains me to see people give these kinds of reasons for believing that there is no God.
thank you for explaining that .
The BEL should seriously reconsider the anti-gay thrust of this ministry
And that is truly what bothers me at my core!!!! This whole ministry of anti-gay when you know you might be one yourself… It speaks of an underlying sense of deceit that doesn’t sit well in my mind… The whole homophobic stance just annoys the freak out of me and make me very biased towards BEL.
This is why I don’t go to church (not this particular situation but pretty much a lot of ungodly things happens in a church… and outside) There’s nothing wrong with going to church it’s just that I don’t believe in going to church every Sunday. Never been to church and at this point never will. I’ve not really read into the whole situation. But I will reply based on how I feel about the whole situation. Do I think the Bishop coerced them into have “spiritual sex”? Yes. However this stuff happened years ago, so why are we just getting word about this? Why did we not here about this when it was all going down? That being said I feel as if the guys were shocked at first but since he was buying them cars and all the gifts and all that good stuff, it was okay. But now that he has cut them off we’re gonna tell everything and let everybody know what you’ve been doing. Personally I feel like this relationship between the Bishop and these guys have been going on for who knows how long. So I think that everybody’s guilty. Bishop for forcing them to have sex, the guys for not saying anything when it all happened. Well I think it’s time for me to drag myself to work unfortunately lol. Bye all and btw good post Champ.
Well said. I feel the same way.
Nikki had butt and hip implants, my friend’s husband used to mess with her. Got pictures to prove it.
Minaj is fake.
Exhibit A: http://addicted-2-retail.com/nicki-minaj-is-that-booty-real-or-fake/
See here. I don’t know what Eddie has done but I’m just tryna save lives.
http://bit.ly/3obXrL
But men are at a very low risk of Breast Cancer…Did The Prophet, as he was called by one of his members during an interview on CNN, foresee those young men being stricken with Breast Cancer in the future, and made a preemptive move to save them?
I don’t know what Eddie was thinking and frm what I hear he would be the one drinking. However I AM trying to save lives. Ladies significantly reduce your chances of breast cancer: http://bit.ly/3obXrL
Come dasher, come prancer & vixen…
http://bit.ly/3obXrL
We are taught and demanded to respect, revere and worship the womb and its carrier but without the seed it is barren. An empty sack. Double standards abound. The seed is no more important than the womb.
#3 *dies*
I remember seeing Eddie Long on tv, on some show… it was like a reality show or something, and it had something to do with Chilli from TLC… I don’t think it was her latest show, but something older. I just remember watching his interactions and what I assumed to be his general personality, and I got that same feeling of “eh, something’s not right.”
And that’s not to say I’ve only met church leaders that have rubbed me the wrong way… I’ve met other people in power in varying other jobs or institutions that also rubbed me the wrong way/made me question their leadership.
I’m also not a fan of mega-churches.
It was probably Real Housewives of ATL. He was a guest at a house party that DeShawn Snow had.
Good post Champ!
1. I agree with you about Coles. For a black man in his profession to admit what happened to him was a big deal.
2. I will admit I have a few church issues but megachurches make me frown. It just seems that the preachers/pastors/reverends/bishops were the stars of the show instead of God himself. I was watching CNN yesterday afternoon and one of Bishop Long’s church members called him “her prophet”. Comments like that just make question people’s train of thought. I guess I just don’t have enough faith to follow another man..
I grew up going to church but I’m not going to give the standard “I grew up in church” line because that would just be dishonest. (This is mostly because I would do my best to avoid going to church at all cost. I’m selfish with my time and stuff.)
3. I’ve got a question for my fellow Negroes Who Read: How is the “black church” doing among our number when it comes to membership and attendance in the 2000′s? (I seldom attend so I wouldn’t have a clue.) I’m going to assume that the attendance numbers by VSBs is lower than our VSS counterparts.
“How is the “black church” doing among our number when it comes to membership and attendance in the 2000?s?”
I don’t but I’ve stated my reasons below and I don’t want to sound like a “church basher”. I grew up in the church and found that as I got older, I had more and more questions that preachers couldn’t answer. I got arrogant and thought that I was too smart to follow anyone’s interpretation or “path” so to speak. So I left the church and study on my own.
I had a very similar plight that has put me where I now stand. The answers I would get made no sense to me; I have a strong need for things to make sense if I’m going to alter my behavior or contradict instinct to follow it.
I stopped going to church when I was five years old. In my mind a woman writhing on the floor didn’t need to be fanned, she needed an ambulance and anyone who was just going to fan me while I had an episode was not somebody I’d want to be around.
I tried again in my mid-teens and found that the most pious of my peers were the ones doing all the dirt. Who really goes to church camp with short-shorts and a two piece bathing suit? No bueno. Now like SFG I practice on my own.
I would say that numbers have either stagnated or shrunken a bit. This is a recession, and even my Nana gives the side-eye to a full ten percent and she’s been going her whole life.
VSBs in church these days are either with their women, their men, seriously devout, or the black version of the Wedding Crashers except there’s no wedding, just the service.
3. I’ve got a question for my fellow Negroes Who Read: How is the “black church” doing among our number when it comes to membership and attendance in the 2000?s? (I seldom attend so I wouldn’t have a clue.) I’m going to assume that the attendance numbers by VSBs is lower than our VSS counterparts.
I have always been a “questioner”… I have questioned everything and anything… I grew up Catholic…(with a Methodist father) and we were very involved in church… My dad has always encouraged knowledge searching though… so as I grew up I did my own research and realized lots, and lots of things… I love me some God. Lol. But the way I see and interpret said God is a mishmash of things I have learned and experienced (big on the “experiencing” part)… so you might not recognize my “God” as He may have a had a very heavy face lift.
…. I still attend church on Sundays (when I can) because I love the feeling of community it provides… As a foreign student far, far away from her homeland, going to Mass on Sundays was link only thread to my “regular” life… Even if mass was in a different language, the rituals and gestures and readings were all the same… so it became a really important (pivotal) part of my survival abroad…
I have visited some of my friend’s churches and like I said, what I try to find in most church teachings is the common thread/spirituality… there is one and it’s palpable… and that’s what I believe in.
Oh, and apparently I was under a rock when No Wedding No Womb appeared… I actually never heard about it until this moment.
I went on the website to see what it was all about and promptly left after scrolling down the page just reading the intros to all the entries.
I believe in marriage, and I grew up with both my parents in the home, but I just don’t like the way they were speaking about the topic. What about homosexual couples that can’t get married? What if someone wants to have a lifetime partnership with someone without taking that legal step to get married? (speaking on heterosexual couples–I knew a couple who were not married but were life partners.)
I’m just saying… I do think that the baby momma/baby daddy thing is old and I am not a fan of how I’ve met women who were proud to be somebody’s baby momma (you know, that whole “I don’t care bout them other hoes because I was his first baby momma”–and I wish I was making that up right now), but I don’t think that attacking the “phenomenon” by saying “get married or don’t have babies” is the best or most inclusive solution.
Well said Miss Malorie!
Thank you! It’s really just something that rubs me the wrong way, even though it could be considered to be something rather well-intentioned. Instead of these “movements” always being rooted in trying to actually help those affected, it just always seems like the focus is on judging people and being classist.
Big example: Halle Berry had a child out of wedlock with her boyfriend, and nobody seemed to have a problem with it. But if she was Halle from the block, then it would be this huge problem and people would be talking about how she was doing her child a disservice and how the child should have a father in the home and blah blah blah. Why does this issue always seem to be an issue of class masked in other clothing? Just saying.
Ugh, effected*
English major having trouble… clearly, not working in an academic field is making me stupider. I need to be in school again. Lol.
I completely agree with your point. In my household it wasn’t about marriage, it was about somebody loving you and making you happy; marriage is just a contract between two people, it doesn’t make them stay and it won’t make them love you if they already don’t.
Plus, class does play a part. If women in Hollywood date five men in five months it’s photoworthy. If women in Allendale date 2 men in 2 years it gets a slight side-eye.
@Tes
Allendale where?
South Carolina of course
You know you know
You’re from the woods too? Small place these Internets. What year did you get paroled from A-F?
Not from there, just got peoples I used to visit. Luckily she’s gone too so I don’t have to go back. Ever. lol She’s on the complete opposite coast losing her mind. But yeah…it’s not too bad…not really. Nice scenary…and sh*t. You from round them woods? You poor poor man…
@Tes
I’m from Fairfax/Barton born and raised. It’s home and I’ll always claim it. (If I had a set I would throw it up.)
@Yonnie: That was it. I couldn’t remember where I’d seen him. It was the episode when DeShawn went into his office to ask him about something. And I remember just being like “uuuggggggh” after watching the whole segment with him in it. He was only on screen for a few minutes and I still felt strange after seeing it.
I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t going to judge. Because I am. Like everyone else, I find it hard to believe that men would lie about being sexually abused by a man in the black community.
I’m not a fan of Eddie Long in general though and I realize that probably colors my perception of the situation. I don’t think there is any reason that he needs to live the way he does. It always makes me uncomfortable to see pastors acting like that. I’m not saying he should be living in poverty but there is a middle ground.
In general I think what we (at least Christians) should take away from this is that the Pastor = God. People need to think critically about themselves and stop putting all their faith in a man. I have a lot of problems with churches but at the end of the day my faith is not dictated by the words coming from the pulpit.
I meant the pastor =/ God
1. i must be skeptical as hell cause as soon as the allegations came out i believed em. i’ve never liked that dude on tv. something didn’t even feel right – and i had no knowledge of him being anti-gay.
2. that wig he had on was a farce.
3. please someone tell me how to add my pic (follow up button checked)
go to gravatar.com to upload a pic
thnx… been wonderin abt that…
i get the premise behind the whole “i hope they are lying”, but the statement is still problematical in my opinion.
4% of al sexual assualt cases are reported to authorities. Even less so if the victim is a male. The criminal justice system re-victimizes victims and the cases that do go to trial usually end with poor results. A civil suit is sometimes the only way for a victim to get the abuse acknowledged. The US is also a very litigious country.
It’s a sad state of affairs that society continues to place blame/doubt on those who have the courage to speak out, rather than the person abusing their power.
Sure, an accused has the right to be considered innocent until proven guilty, but what about the accused? If these were young girls, we would be asking what were they wearing, doing in his car, at his house, with his phone number in the 1st place. Even with visual evidence, many black folk have forgiven R. Kelly…
Also a sad state of affairs, is people linking pedophilia with homosexuality. These cases are never about sex, it’s about power. People use who they have access to and who they believe are less likely to speak out.
I agree with this entire comment. Especially this: These cases are never about sex, it’s about power. .
I cosign!! And can tell you from personal experience that our legal system is set up for the powerful. Rape cases are the hardest cases to prove and the system goes in on the victim so much that they often retract their story. It’s so sad. The reason why many link pedophilia with homosexuality is because of the over-whelming #s of homosexual pedophilia cases in the u.s. every year. Children are defenseless and keep secrets…which make them prey. Unfortunately, for a man with repressed sexual issues and a fragile state of mind can make him a predator. It’s a bad recipe and if you ask any social worker, a high occuring one. It’s not the majority (most are male on female) but the homosexual cases make it to the news more often which gives gay men a bad name.
@SFG:
when a man is sexually molesting a lil boy, it’s not because he’s gay, it’s access. if he had access to little girls he would do it to her too. at a certain age, boys and girls look the same.
sad either way because you are right – it makes all gay men look bad.
Actually, yes and no. Access is one reason however most molesters have a “preference”…some are exact all the way down to appearance. Most same sex pedophiles are homosexual. I find it hard to believe a straight man would molest a boy. Either way, it’s still a sickness which goes back to the whole power issue. Most of these men felt powerless their whole lives which is one of the reasons why they prey children.
“In 1992, alarmed over claims made during a campaign for an anti-gay state constitutional amendment in Colorado, two physicians reviewed every case of suspected child molestation evaluated at Children’s Hospital in Denver over a one-year period. Of the 269 cases determined to involve molestation by an adult, only two of the perpetrators could be identified as gay or lesbian. The researchers concluded that the risk of child sexual abuse by an identifiably gay or lesbian person was between zero and 3.1%, and that the risk of such abuse by the heterosexual partner of a relative was over 100 times greater.[8]”
Source(s):
http://www.robincmiller.com/gayles4.htm
You should know research is as good as the data. How many of the molestation cases were same sex? Btw, most molestion cases are male to female. Define “could be identified as”? I’m not saying you’re article is wrong. I can find tons of articles to support my theory as well. I’ve read many articles on molestation which I can’t look up at work however many man-boy molestation cases are by straight males? I highly doubt it. I’ll find some good articles after work.
i concur 100% – for every stat/study that proves an argument, there is one that that counters it.
actually research says the opposite.
it’s ‘church’ propoganda and fear driving this stereotype.
its not the sexuality of the children, it’s actually the lack thereof.
“In 1992, alarmed over claims made during a campaign for an anti-gay state constitutional amendment in Colorado, two physicians reviewed every case of suspected child molestation evaluated at Children’s Hospital in Denver over a one-year period. Of the 269 cases determined to involve molestation by an adult, only two of the perpetrators could be identified as gay or lesbian. The researchers concluded that the risk of child sexual abuse by an identifiably gay or lesbian person was between zero and 3.1%, and that the risk of such abuse by the heterosexual partner of a relative was over 100 times greater
Source(s):
http://www.robincmiller.com/gayles4.htm
additional sources
http://www.pflag.org/fileadmin/user_upload/Action_Alerts/BRIEF__Child_Abuse_and_Homosexuality.pdf
http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/HTML/facts_molestation.html
i recognize that any study will be skewed to fit ones hypothesis, but i trust the american psychological association. that’s just me though.
we dont WANT to believe that ‘straight men would molest a little boy’ but the world is full of people with sick and twisted ideals. no ‘sane’ person would throw acid on oneself and blame a black person, no true mother would drown all her babies or microwave them to death. pedophilia is NOT based in logic.
I clicked on one of the links Shelby posted above http://malesurvivor.org/myths.html and they actually had this to say:
“Myth #2 – Most sexual abuse of boys is perpetrated by homosexual males.
Pedophiles who molest boys are not expressing a homosexual orientation any more than pedophiles who molest girls are practicing heterosexual behaviors. While many child molesters have gender and/or age preferences, of those who seek out boys, the vast majority are not homosexual. They are pedophiles.”
Sorry I’m late but I’m curious. First off i found numerous articles online that counteract this theory but that’s not my point. My question is: how exactly would researchers know which pedophiles are homosexual? The only way they would know is if the pedophile said he was. And how many pedophiles admit to molestation anyway? Maybe I ask too many questions but sometimes I find certain research to be flawed. This is news to me and I know alot about this issue. Most molestation are cases male to female, actually 86%. That’s the only thing that would concrete. The sexuality of the molester would be vague and based only on whether he answered the question honestly. Out of all the cases I read in college, most of them listed some type of sexually charged feeling.
When we come to a consensus on sexual abuse is when we begin to understand and stop it. SEXUAL ABUSE IS NOT ABOUT SEX!!!!! No abuse is. It’s about power and control.
Thus, you can have a man who lives is everyday life as a hetrosexual male. He can be married, with kids, and enjoy an active sex life with is wife. However, he can still be a pedophile because it’s not a logical/sane extension of his everyday life. It’s a deviant expression of gaining control over an other human being. MALE OR FEMALE. The sex is a tool of control. The actual act of sex is not what’s most important to folks in this category, it’s the control they exude over their victims. Thus, they don’t get off on the sex alone, but the power they are able to carry over another.
This is why you can have a man, seemingly fully committed to his wife, family life, church, etc live a double life where he’s molesting children of the same sex. So as much as I think stats can say what they want, I’ve seen too much working with kids to know that many perps identify as straight males.
neva late! always on time!
i figured you would find articles to counteract my argument. you’ve gone to school, so you know all about stats and studies. 2 sides to every argument.
i stand by mine though.
how would researchers know pedophiles are homosexual? the same way they would know if they weren’t: by asking.
if you are being asking about your orientation and you are a pedophile, what do you have to lose by hiding about your orientation? chances are you are already in jail (hopefully).
I dont know the numbers, but from what I read/know/understand (studied crim/soc in uni), there isn’t a sexual preference, it’s the lack of sexuality that attracts. this explains people that molest babies.
Good afternoon to you, Keisha…I agree with just about everything you said. Actually, I do agree with everything. I was thinking about the Kelly thing, but you said many black folk have forgiven him (which is true). I think there’s a difference due to profession, but that would be a different point. Thus, the co-sign level stays at 100% – a measure with which I have no complaints.
Hear, hear.
Well said, Keisha.
It’s rather sad when the first thing is “they might be lying”… really? Wow.
I watched his sermon, and my friends and I were creeped out.
The 10 minute applause this mad received before even speaking was ridiculous and almost cult like. Are those people there for God or Eddie Long? It appears that the church has too much faith in that man, and not God.
He also came off as very arrogant to me and I didn’t really get anything of substance from his “speech”.
@LaBakir
“Are those people there for God or Eddie Long?”
This is the question I ask about religous personalities. Many preachers, no matter the size of his or her church seem to have groupies and this leads me back to question “Why are y’all there?”
@Wu Young
People get so caught up. Lines get crossed. Yes, while this is a “man of God” and he’s delivering the Lord’s message…he is NOT God.
I honestly feels this can happen when people don’t “question” religion…they just follow blindly.
This. This right here is why he creeped me out too. I have an issue with people who idolize the position and feel that he can do no wrong. He is a MAN, first and foremost. My Bible tells me what I need to do to get into Heaven, I dont need someone else giving me other instructions on how to get there. My pastor teaches that God gave everyone free will and the RIGHT/RESPONSIBILITY to question their leadership. Any church body or member who doesn’t ask questions OR is ignored when they do so, should be given the side eye with the quickness.
Do I think he did it? No. Does it look shady as hell? YES. My question is: where were the parents when a grown man took these kids on these overnight trips? Bishop, Pastor, Minister whatever. A good leader should be mindful of PERCEPTION at all times, knowing how people are.
@Capricorn
It looks extremely shady. And I don’t kow if Eddie Long has a homosexual history and “overcame” it…but if that’s the case, he didn’t need to mentor a group of young guys.
And sending those pictures are just reckless…
It looks extremely shady. And I don’t kow if Eddie Long has a homosexual history and “overcame” it…but if that’s the case, he didn’t need to mentor a group of young guys.
Ummm… homosexual ? pedophile. Are you saying that gay people (or people who used to be gay… whatever) should not be allowed to mentor or be around same-sex children?
No, that’s not what I meant at all. And that’s not what I was suggesting.
You’re right pedophile and homosexual do not go hand in hand.
I get what you are saying about the pastor not being God and people forgetting that… I agree, but I do have a few questions
1. While people criticize megachurches, If I am pastor… do I hinder the growth of my church when my whole goal w/ the undertaking was to ‘save souls’? Is it better if I am a megachurch but not televised?
2. With that many members, how does one control how folks perceive him? Like how do I stop my personality from becoming ‘larger than life?’
This is what I don’t get and I’m not sure that as a pastor of a growing church you have 100% control of. I can’t help that people like my style of preaching and/or teaching and flock to the building in record numbers, can I? Even though my post has nothing to do with the lavish lifestyle of these pastors, I do like the link that someone posted upthread about Donnie McClurkin. I read that before, he gives A LOT of his income to the community and lives a modest lifestyle so that no one will confuse his mission.
@SoFlyy
I actually don’t have an issue w/ the mega church. Is it Eddie Long’s “fault” that he has 23,000 followers? Not at all.
My issue is w/ people that identify with their pastor to the point of losing the ability to excercise judgement. My “beef” isn’t w/ Eddie Long…but with his followers. Though, I also believe perhaps he could do a better job of making it clear to the congregration who they are there for…God and not him.
The two are not interchangable.
I feel you on that b/c I know a lot of mindless flock and these people attend smaller churches… it doesn’t take much. My comment wasn’t so much pointed at you but your post made me think about it. I know a lot folks who come down on Long and pastors like him for being ‘larger than life’ but what is one to do to control that?
I get what you’re saying.
But from watching that video last night, that man was eating up that appluase and admiration. He didn’t come off as humble to me. Which makes me believe that he doesn’t reinforce the fact that he’s doing God’s work and it’s God who has helped him get where he is.
Particularly b/c we’re speaking about religion…I think he does have a little more control over where the focus is. Or at the very least TRY.
Hope that makes sense
nail on the head…he was in the least bit humble. he did the old “sit down, sit down” thing that performers do when they really mean “keep clapping & standing”.
he’s been brainwashing these folks and yesterday they cut a fool acting like they were at a Justin Bieber concert.
It’s funny cause he didn’t even deny it…and the fact that they started applauding right off the bat told me that it didn’t matter what the truth was, they are going to support him regardless.
EXACTLY!!!!
My girls and I were amazed. One compared it to a standing ovation a rapper or singer would receive.
The congregation just came off as “blind” to me.
@LaBakir
“The congregation just came off as “blind” to me.”
Perhaps this is why church bodies are often called flocks. There to be herded and sheparded. I know when the term flock was used originally it was in a positive way but I wouldn’t have a problem with this if folks were on the up and up.
I think that’s a fair assessment. I was tripped out too and gave them the side eye. Part of me thinks the Black Church needs to be disbanded, for this very reason, which is why I have stopped going to “Black Churches” altogether. But I’m not going to stop going to church, period. Black people act like there’s no other option for church besides an all-black one. As if that’s what the bible instructed us to do.
@Liz,
I wouldn’t go as far as disbanded but it would need to under go a large-scale retooling. I don’t frequent church but I’ve been to good ones. More God and faith and less man.
@Wu Young
I agree. The focus must be kept on God and faith…and that needs to be reiterated in the church…by it’s leaders. When the leaders aren’t preaching that…all kinds of foolishness can happen
Yeah disbanded was harsh. retooling and restructured, sure.
RIGHT! This man didn’t say that he wasn’t guilty, but to his “flock” it’s almost like he doesn’t have to. There is something wrong about this man not addressing the media, but only is congregation. IMO, he doesn’t need to reassure them of his innocence. He’s being accused in the court of law and court of public opinion, so that’s where he needs to speak out.
He’s starting to look more and more guilty with every move he makes.
SMH, comparing himself to the biblical David was just totally wrong as in WAY out of context. He’d actually be the Goliath in this case.
And I do believe he was trickin on those young boys and used his influence over them. Vile and beyond disgusting.
Keep in mind it is only a civil suit because the youngest accuser (so far) is 17 and legal age of consent in GA is 16. If this happened in NJ he’d have been charged by now. Also, his lack of directly denying these charges is probably a legal strategy against charges in other states involving transport of minors. I’m in my late 30s and can’t think of a single reason to text any picture of myself to ANY minor.
I am personally not surprised by any of this. He attitude toward his money suggests to me that he feels entitled. If he can’t immediately disprove the $$$ allegations about tuition, gifts and trips it’s a done deal. I think people may have a tendency to under estimate his power over these boys. The boys may have had homosexual tendencies, but were also probably victims before. It’s not uncommon for homosexual males to have early and abusive experiences with older males. It’s an ugly subculture amonst gay men. Happens to girls too.
Curious? How do people feel about his preaching?
I think he is moronic.
Legal age of consent is 16 in NJ as well. The technicalities come in because a 16 year old can have sex with someone younger than them up to 4 years. But a 20 year old and sixteen year old (for example) is a no-no.
Thanks for the clarification. Doesn’t the relationship come into play as well. Like 17 and 25 is ok, but not if it’s a teacher or a counselor?
Wow I cosign with every point in your post. Very well written! I really don’t think it’s a matter of any criminal wrong doing (although it should be). It’s more a matter of this man representing and preaching the word of GOD. Are we supposed to not pass judgement and wait until we get all the facts? Yes but we never will. I don’t need to see any more evidence that it is painfully obvious this man did a heap of wrong against his wife AND used his status in the church to prey on young men. I do find it hard to believe that anyone can “coerce” without a gun, knife and drugs, a 16 year-old boy to do sexual acts if a part of him didn’t want to in the first place. However since I am not a 16 year-old boy, I’m going to keep a clear mind that maybe they were just really really really really mentally weak. ? Either way, the whole thing is disgusting and Eddie Long should be removed from the church. Good luck with that because many church “leaders” have a way of brain washing with words. I’m sure these people are convinced he’s innocent and not even a pic of Eddie Long cleaning pipes in a rainbow vest will show them otherwise.
With that said, this is reason #352 why I don’t let any man preach the word to me. My relationship with God is a personal one and constitutes reading my bible alone and praying. I don’t mind fellowship but I refuse to have a man interpret it for me, pay money to and be a part of anything that misrepresents Jehovah as much as churches do. Finding a scandal free church and a worthy pastor is about as common as finding fat free french fries…not neva. Therefore I take my religious journey alone and however God sees fit to deal with me, he will. I can tell you so far it’s been a blessed and joyous one so I must be doing something right.
Homosexuality? Like my statement above, I think this is a private matter that the person should deal with. I do think homosexuality is a sin, however I do think gay persons are born this way and God would NEVER d@mn anyone to hell for something they cannot control. This is my own personal opinion. I love my gay friends like I love my straight friends and as a black woman I cannot judge them. I do support gay rights even though the bible says it’s a sin because this one is uncontrollable so gays shouldn’t be persecuted. Plus, we’re all sinners so it’s not up to us now is it. I just think that living a life of lies (like marrying a woman knowing your gay) is wrong. A 40+ year old man who sleeps with a 16 year old is wrong whether male or female.
“I do think homosexuality is a sin, however I do think gay persons are born this way and God would NEVER d@mn anyone to hell for something they cannot control.”
I can’t control my asthma and near-sightedness. I was born this way. Why can’t God fix me such that I don’t have to carry albuterol sulfate and wear contact lenses? The homosexuals can get in line behind me. It’s not abundantly clear that their sexual orientation even needs fixing.
Pedophiles, on the other hand, can get fixed first. -_-
I don’t know the cause of sexual preference. It’s probably not genetic. Some studies indicate that the brain becomes sexualized in diff ways depending on exposure to hormones during mammalian gestation. Homosexual behavior has been documented in non-human mammals, and studies have involved twins and litters.
Many Christians disregard the parts of the Bible that restrict us to Kosher diets or require women to cover their heads in church or declare women unclean during their menstrual cycle. Christians should also ignore the parts that label homosexuality as a sin. There have been gay people as long as there have been people. There will always be a spectrum of sexuality. Let’s move past it.
In 200 years, when gays have their civil rights in America, our descendants will wonder what all the fuss was about — just like we wonder at how black slaves could only count as three-fifths human for electoral college and taxation purposes during the 1700s and 1800s.
I completely cosign. I actually have people that I know and love that spout pure hatred towards gays about it being choice. Why would anyon choose to be gay? And how exactly do you control who you are attracted to? I know I can’t. Call it a hormonal imbalance or birth defect or whatever. The point is, we are who we are. We are not all created equal. Some were born with 1 leg and cannot walk. Are they damned to hell? I think people can be so self-righteous. As minorities, we should know what it’s like to be persecuted for the way we were born. At the end of the day, I have 99 problems and homosexuality aint one. People should leave it alone already.
ok, sorry, but IF we choose to classify homosexuality as a sin (no matter the cause) we cannot then proceed to say it is not subject to being controlled via the Power of God. the Word calls for all sins to be forsaken (with His help) in following Him. so either it’s a sin & subject to the same rules/regulations as all other sins, or it isn’t.
as for OT/NT… both condemn homosexuality. only the OT regulates diet & other extraneous (to life) things. as we study the applications, the OT is a guide for NT living, except for things that are blatantly stated in NT as sinful & things that the Holy Spirit personally highlights as sin in ur life. Christians are not bound to the law, but to holiness.
So are you a sinner? Did you sin at all today? Is it anywhere in the bible that ALL sinners will go to hell if they do not repent? Does it say anywere in the bible that sinners will go to hell at all? What exactly will make someone foresaken in God’s eyes? If you replied yes to my first question, then the rest of your comment is mush to me.
red herring, dear. my sinfulness (or lack thereof) is not relevant to the discussion of whether *all* sinners can be saved and delivered from their sins versus whether only *some* sinnners can. God made the decision to extend salvation to *all* is what scripture teaches. I’m simply asserting that one cannot arbitrarily decide that a specific sin is not eligible for salvation. either God’s power works or it doesn’t.
btw – nowhere do I even address judgement, condemnation or hell.
This “God made the decision to extend salvation to *all* is what scripture teaches.” counteracts much of what I read today so excuse me if I mis-read your statement. I have yet to find a man who exhibits “holiness” that we are bound to. We are all sinners trying to interpret the word of GOD. If what you are saying is true, then I hope you have a chance to repent for all of your sins. If someone tells a lie right before they get shot then they are in deep trouble, no? If it sounds silly to you, then it is silly. I think we should leave condemning up to GOD.
more red herrings. this isn’t about condemnation, individual guilt, or individual holiness. please re-read the logical flow of what i presented regarding the Power of God over sin.
I don’t have all the answers. I’m not going to pretend like I do.
“as for OT/NT… both condemn homosexuality. only the OT regulates diet & other extraneous (to life) things.”
Paul ordered women to keep quiet in church and to wear head coverings. Many modern Christian women disregard both New Testament suggestions. Eat the meat and spit out the bones. Maybe Christian women will face hell fire for their bare heads in church. Maybe not.
Christians like Ted Haggard deny their gay urges in order to conform with Biblical precepts, but have they really been cured if they still experience the urges? That’s just self-denial and resistance to temptation. Nothing special.
Once upon a time, Christians mistook epileptic fits for demon possession. Society knows better now. Maybe homosexuality won’t be mistaken for sin anymore once science pinpoints the exact cause of the brain’s sexualization and at what point during gestation it occurs.
I am trying to find a clever way to co-sign… Heck, co-sign is enough.
Many Christians disregard the parts of the Bible that restrict us to Kosher diets or require women to cover their heads in church or declare women unclean during their menstrual cycle. .
It’s not abundantly clear that their sexual orientation even needs fixing .
CHURCH!!!!
I actually think the whole considering it a sin, is why so many people struggle with coming out.
I have a
friendclose associate/ex-coworker, who I think is on the down low. Well let him tell it, he tells the chicks he’s involved with that he sleeps with men. I’m not a believer. Anywho, we’ve had many conversations in which he says that he doesn’t feel comfortable saying that he’s gay because it’s a sin. An abomination. And he STRUGGLES with reconciling the Bible and who he is. It’s sad to watch. He grew up in the church and his family is HEAVY in the church. He has literally broke down crying and saying that he doesn’t want to be who he is. He just wants to get married one day and have a familyand sleep with menand not desire men. It’s soooooooo heart breaking because that ninja is as gay as the day is long.that ninja is as gay as the day is long.
and the jokes just write themselves. Lol!
But it’s so very sad about your coworker… My cousin is gay. Flaming. Has been gay his entire life as far as I can remember. E has always been into girlie stuff and boys. Of course, my uncle (his father) had the HARDEST time dealing with it… I mean it was very heartbreaking to see… to the point where my cousin had to pretend to have a gf (I suspect she was gay too and playing the part. Lol)… when my uncle finally came to terms with the fact that yes he is gay and no that doesn’t make him less human and less lovable and less your son, it was a huge burden lifted off everybody’s shoulders…
My cousin is happy and in a long term relationship. Isn’t that better for everyone?
I see this all the time in the Jamaican community and it breaks my heart. As a child, I watched one of my friends get hit by his father everytime he did something feminine. It was hard to watch.
I have to cosign with your post 100%. I have the same issues sometimes with the church, and I have been going my entire life read: 22 yrs. I think that its hard to reconcile what I see in the church when I have a personal relationship with God and feel that things just aren’t matching up with what I study on my own. As far as the homosexuality bit I totally agree and have found that when you really read and study the Bible for yourself you will find more and more that the things that you have been taught about controversial issues are man’s interpretation not necessarily God’s words. Then factor in all the translations of the Bible and who was doing the translating and there are even more discrepancies. Come on KING JAMES! But I digress. All this is to say that you can never put all your faith in men because you will be disappointed quite often.
As for BEL I remain skeptical about any possibility of innocence and am perpetually turned off by his inability to show humility in any facet of his ministry.
Yes. I watched one of his sermons (for research purposes lol) and the man is cocky and lacks humility. I really don’t think he is funny nor is he anyone I would want to interpret the bible for me. The bible is the most mis-interpreted books. I like to rely on my own intelligence to decipher what I need to take out of life. You’re right, a book that has been translated as many times should be read figuratively and not literally but I almost got beheaded when I said that to a few people. No one dares question one bit of the bible so I still read it and hold it dear as the closest thing to the truth.
I continuously hear, “I pray for his wife”, but going back to the Tiger reference, do we really think Long’s wife was not aware or had no clue? After all, he is a man of God and all who he is (or is not) should be transparent to his wife.
But most importantly, even if he is innocent of the accusations, isn’t he guilty of a serious something for taking those pics?!?!?! Unfortunately for me, I can hear him as he poses, “damn you’re hot as hell”! No pun!
I think it comes with a sort of denial. Like Elin she probably like the perks of being a woman attatched to a man with power. I don’t care what anyone says money and power talks, on high levels at that. I find it hard to believe that anyone can sleep next to someone everynight and not know the person they’re sleeping next to. There are always red flags present when someone behaves in a mannor that requires covering up. It’s a matter of whether or not you choose to acknowledge it. That may be harsh but in personal experience it’s truth.
Lol I meant manner.
I totally agree wtih thought #3, well said, sir.
4. I try to remain unbiased but I often sympathize with the accuser. Even if the accuser is lying there is something wrong (maybe even with the accuser) that causes he/she to make such strong allegations. I’m not saying it’s ok to falsely accuse someone of sexucual misconduct, but it’s important to get to the root of the real problem.
In my young adult Sunday School class yesterday the teacher was saying that because we are part of the body of Christ we should stand behind Eddie Long and be slow to judge. I was upset because the teacher kept encouraging us to imagine how it would feel to be lied on or falsely accused. When I tried to point out to the teacher that his approach was inadvertantly passing judgement on the accusers I was met with side-eyes from every single angle.
I also pointed out that though the boys were old enough to know that engaging in the acts was wrong, people cannot understand the state of mind of the sexually abused unless they have been there and the fact that the accused is was a trusted spiritual leader only compounds the issue. I wasn’t trying to play devil’s advocate in Sunday School, just voicing my opinions. I mean, weren’t the accused a part of the body of Christ as well?
“In my young adult Sunday School class yesterday the teacher was saying that because we are part of the body of Christ we should stand behind Eddie Long and be slow to judge.”
No need to suspend your own judgment and critical thinking skills to appease a Sunday School teacher.
That ninja is guilty as the day is ‘Long’!!!! LOL.
I believed these allegations the second I heard them. I beleive that if you are so vehmently against homosexuals that you have to stand at the pulpit and preach about how wrong it is AND support a ban on gay marriage (how a BLACK person gonna support denying someone else’s rights?) Im convinced you are GAY, GAY , GAY! Enough priests, senators , pastors, reverends etc. have proved this to be true. The bigger the homophobe the bigger the homosexual.
Sexual abuse of black boys is way more common then we like to think. Many men are molested by relatives, family friedns, or theire mother’s boyfriends/spouses when they come home from prision. We are not vocal enough about sexual abuse in our community, and we are STILL not comfortable with the black GLBT community.
And for the record I would have no problem dating a brotha who had been sexually abused.
I agree, and I think folk need to make ALOT more noise about sexual abuse of boys and girls and be extremely proactive in protecting children, sometimes even from one another!
I also would not have a problem dating someone who confided in me they were abused, I’ve had a few guys tell me about female babysitters over the years, the thing is being honest with self and then others, not having been abused and then live a lifestyle of deception/down low behaviors etc that’s what I cannot deal with
“And for the record I would have no problem dating a brotha who had been sexually abused.”
Exactly, it’s not his fault and completely unfair to judge him based on such a horrible experience.
I agree!
And we need more people “frothing at the mouth” about this… Because it is ridiculous and needs to be “frothed at the mouth” about!!!!
I, for one, will be frothing at the mouth about how wrong it is for folks to abuse other people. God dang it!
What’s even more important is: WERE THERE BED BUGS IN THE HOTELS THAT HE “ALLEGEDLY” TOOK THESE YOUNG MEN TO?!
#DEAD!
Full disclosure: I am a VSS who was raised in the church, who no longers believes in organized religion.
Now, on to more important stuff: I find it interesting that I’ve seen NUMEROUS Christians spouting off about how they think we’re going to respond to this scandal, but I haven’t actually seen too many non-Christians actually say ANYTHING. Believe it or not, my reasons for leaving the church were very well thought out, and based on a whole lot of soul-searching. Please understand that anybody who chooses to make this kind of decision (especially in the AfAm community) goes through a LOT of peer-judgment, feelings of isolation, and discord within their families, simply for doing what they believe to be right. We do not go through all of this to simply sit back and “froth at the mouth” about some closeted “bishop.” I can’t speak for the rest of us, but for me, it is not easy to speak up against organized religion. One has to be prepared for battle of epic proportions.
I will admit that some of my initial squeamishness with religion did spawn from my disdain of hypocrisy, but there is soooo much more than that behavior that turned me away.
I say all of this to say that it seems to me that a lot of Christians are trying to proactively dismiss any “poor soul’s” attack on the Christianity, when in actuality, this whole scandal isn’t even a drop in the bucket to us.
I concur.
Cosign. I find it interesting that you listed hypocrisy as one of your reasons as that was one of my reasons for leaving the church as well.
Thank you for saying this. I completely agree. The fact that some of us chose to discontinue our participation in organised religion does not mean we are chomping at the bit to attack churchgoers. It seems that the greatest scandals to hit organised the church have come from within.
CoSign all day! It is very difficult to be a non-church goer in America. It’s more difficult for an African American and Uber difficult for an African American in the south!
I don’t have much to say on the subject other then this is basically one of the reasons why I don’t mess with institutionalized religion.
I’m white and had a discussion about this with a friend who is black over the weekend….his brother recently became ordained so he was speaking from a different place than i was…however in the end we both agreed that something smelled real bad…and it seems like an abuse of power coupled with abuse of funds…money and power will corrupt EVERY time. It didn’t seem weird for him to discuss this in mixed race company. We don’t judge each other based on our race or what “our” people do…..it doesn’t reflect on who we are as individuals.
I bet if he was misappropriating funds they would fire his butt faster than Rev. Henry Lyons. I think we as a community need to have more outrage than we are showing. Whether they were legal or not he took advantage. Someone who’s never been abused over a period of time will not understand that the abuse was more psycological than anything. He probably had those boys feeling as if their self-worth was something to be bought. It doesn’t matter what kind of abuse it is, physical emotional or whatever it’s all started in the mind. The abuser will break you down mentally until you are weak enough to allow yourself to be abused.
I wish there was an edit option. I need to clarify my last sentence. I just reread it and I don’t like the way it comes off. I mean until you start to feel like the abuse is your fault, you deserve it, and therefore you accept it.
Your comment brought the OJ Simpson trial to mind. (Not that the cases relate in anyway) I remember being the only AA I knew who thought OJ was guilty. My friends literally wanted to stone me. It was as if I was rejecting my people or my race. I’m not going to support someone because they are black or because they are a deacon, bishop or pope for that matter. Ray, because blacks are the minority, many feel like we should support one another no matter what. When I think about it, we should start with not tearing each other down with jealousy and envy instead of supporting blacks that we know deep down are not doing right.
I thought OJ did it too and my grandma was ready to disown me because of it. I’m sorry…but if you can beat the mother of your kids, you can kill her. PERIOD!
I’ll just say this:
-Good job on the post, Champ, especially on the Laveranues Coles story. I had no idea.
-The fact that the accusers were of the age of consent in Georgia when the Bishop allegedly did that stuff, I got a feeling he knew what he was doing, just in case something like this came up. Because of that, what he was doing was shady and unbecoming of a pastor, but not illegal, which makes it all more confusing.
-Stuff like this is going on in our community and it makes me f**king sick. It’s why some of them grow up sexually confused and doing know how to be intimate with a woman. It can happen in all societies, but we should expect better from our community because our men should be protect our boys that helps become better men, not use them for sick gratification.
-Whether he did that or not, those pictures REALLY don’t help his case at all. I’m sorry but I will not send pictures of me to a man at all. Point blank period. It does not matter what I am wearing. I will not send a picture of me to no man. I will only send pictures of me to a woman. With that being said, the fact that those pictures of Bishop Long were sent to a man does not help him out at all.
-This is one of the reasons why I have never ever been interested in megachurches at all. I still like to go the same church in my old neighborhood back home where people have known me and my sisters, my niece and nephew since we were in diapers. My church has had drama over the years, but our pastors are regular people: teachers, professors, army recruiters, music teachers. I know where the money is going to because our church has grown since I was a kid. I’m sorry, but it is hard for me to see a pastor roll up in a Bentley GT and not think something shady is going on.
Alright, I’m done.
I’m Mr SoBo, and I approve this comment.
Cosign. A bentley? It’s funny how ninjas love to skip verses in the bible….like the one that talks about having things in abundance. If you are representing GOD or claiming to be “Christ” like…then why are you living in a mansion? Couldn’t someone else or a charity benefit from the “extra” monies you so happen to have. A Preacher represents something. You best believe I’m going to scrutinize his every behavior if he is claiming to be a man of GOD. And I don’t care if he is White or Black. Scratch that I do care. Because everytime a Black man does something ignorant, he represents us in some way.
The picture made him guilty in my eyes. Not because of what he was wearing but because, like you said, he sent those pics to the boys. Now what on earth would posess him to do that? Exactly.
I don’t have too many thoughts on Bishop Eddie Longstroke, but I will co-sign the frothing at the mouth amongst black folk ready to go nuts with criticism. Man has been trending on twitter for like a week now because we going so hard (not like that) about it. We love to eat our own (not like that).
People tend to care most about issues that directly affect or represent them in some way. Now this man being black and christian represent many black christians so people are going to have an opinion on it. I think Eddie Long is a predator and you best believe I’m going to go hard on that. I would eat him but jheri curl juice gives me heart burn.
touche. point noted and lol at heart burn.
Regarding 2g1c, I think the whole phenomenon of reaction videos stemmed out that being the only thing you could re-post online. There was essentially a funnel to a very small number of places you could see it. Clearly, it violates Youtube’s posting standards, so people devised a way around it. It just so happened that reaction videos are so funny, everybody had to do it.
I don’t think it points to a change in the way we deal with things like this per se, just how we utilize the available methods of communication and deal with whatever inadequacies therein.
You know, I hate to be judgemental before all the facts come out, but I’m sorry something just isn’t right there. I mean, his youth group was called the “Longfellows” Academy?? I mean that right there just sounds creepy. But what really did it for me was those pictures.. I’m sorry, no grown ass, so called “man of God” should be wearing an underarmor suit with matching Kangol.. much less taking pictures of themselves with it on and sending it out to ANYONE. That outfit would only be appropriate for the gym (sans the Kangol) and even then its a little over the top. You’re a leader of a major church, show a little modesty and class.
Did he necessarily coerce these young men into sexual relations? I HOPE not, of course, but if he did, let him rot in hell for using his power and influence to justify his vile and disgusting behavior. And if he’s not guilty of any coercion and/or butt-chexual relations, at the very least he’s still incredibly narcisstic and self absorbed to be wearing spandex suits and driving a Bentley and owning a private jet. And if my memory serves me correctly, pride and greed and two of the seven deadly sins and as the Bible says “Pride comes before the fall”
A few things bother me about this story, that picture and one of Champ’s observations.
First of all, for a black man of any esteem let alone the reputation of a man like Eddie Long to not come out and deny these allegations basically says he’s guilty of something inappropriate. This is not a criminal case and the state and the feds have openly stated that this is not something they are even going to investigate. Why all of the legalese and side-stepping the issue. I’d rather be accused of mass-murder than butt-sexx rappage.
Secondly, this is what Eddie Long gets. He has used his power, prestige and influence to actively work against gay rights in America. He is one of the most prolific anti-gay rights advocates in the country. I’ve heard him a month does not go by without him castigating gays and homosexuality. …. I’m gonna let that simmer for a minute…………..Do you guys know how big of a gay basher you have to be to be one of the biggest in AMERICA?
He deserves this embarrasment. His hypocrisy is disgusting. He was in that pulpit every Sunday morning bashing gays and then blowing out young boys backs Sunday evening. Look at the allegations. They have too much specificity. Black men don’t go around screaming false rape.
Champ, this man is accused of some shady and creepy ass crap and yet in your issue #2 above you have a problem because “intellectual atheists” may swarm and use this as fodder. This IS why they swarm and froth at the mouth. The pulpits across this country, especially in the black community, are full of shister ass hypocrites like this guy. I personally have seen no less than 100 different pastors, decons, bishops, etc. flashing their 6 button Steve Harvey suits, gold chains and cars like they are rappers or something and yet they talk about being humble.
This whole thing is entertaining. The fools that continue to follow this idiot are pretty much the same idiots that follow the Pope, those mullahs in the middle east who keep little boys as their sex slaves, and the Jimmy Swaggarts, etc. We can’t go around shaking are heads at the foolishness of some of the stuff they do in Islam and not this crazyness that is going on in Christianity.
Champ, this man is accused of some shady and creepy ass crap and yet in your issue #2 above you have a problem because “intellectual atheists” may swarm and use this as fodder. This IS why they swarm and froth at the mouth. The pulpits across this country, especially in the black community, are full of shister ass hypocrites like this guy. I personally have seen no less than 100 different pastors, decons, bishops, etc. flashing their 6 button Steve Harvey suits, gold chains and cars like they are rappers or something and yet they talk about being humble.
THANK YOU!
There is man of the cloth who is potentially the “biggest gay basher in America” who has based his ministry on anti-gay sermons who has allegedly been having s.ex with men… and you are concerned about the “frothing at the mouth of intellectual atheists”… That’s like the biggest issue, really? Miss me with that, homie.
For me, it is all about the hypocrisy. Gotta watch out for that karma…
The news media was told that he would answer questions in the “news conference” between the two sermons today. He did not. Nor did he say, ” I did not do this, I am innocent”.
The Tom Joyner show said they was told he would appear and answer questions. He was a no show, and had his attorney read a prepared statement where he did say the allegations are false. I am not an attorney, but as I understand that prepared statement would never hold up in court because its “hear say”. But even that weak prepared statement did not include the words, “I did not do it, I am innocent”.
What I am suggesting here is their is a tread used by Eddie Long and his attorney, to stall, build expectation, then do not deliver on that expectation.
If he will indeed fight this in the justice system and actually take this case to trail, he is obligated to be questioned by the Plaintiffs’s attorney. Will he then deny under oath he committed this acts, will he proclaim his innocence. I personally do not think he will, because if he was innocent he could have said this today. Which he did not. But this gives him time to hide his assets. Find ways to protect his wealth through trust and maybe even move to Florida where his retirement income would be protected. Just as O.J. did and many others.
I understand his church flock wanting to support him. But they must be willing to search for the truth, insist on the truth, and be willing to look at what is staring them in the face. The fact this man has NOT said “I am innocent, these charges will be proven to never had happened, I did not do this”. Rather than saying, the man being portrayed is not me. No one is portraying you. Those are YOUR pictures that you took of yourself. The charges are allegations not a portrayal and you have NOT proclaimed your innocence. In short, if there is any portraying be done, it is by you Eddie. As you portrayed yourself as “David fighting Goliath”, and the portrayal of an accused man NOT willing to say I am innocent.
I frankly don’t care if you did these things except for using church money for your pleasure and your hypocrisy, as well as causing hurt to your victims and to the sincere followers that you are saying more to deny these charges than you are. I really feel sorry for that sweet innocent “child like” young adult female that appeared on CNN with Don Lemon to defend you yesterday and today after your empty words on the pulpit. I hope she and other sincere members of your flock is not harmed. I would also say it is the responsibility for those same members of his church to search for the truth themselves, test the spirit, and not be deceived. I bought a CD set from your “Spirit and Truth” Conference last year. Which gave me a completely different view of you. Because one of your speakers in this conference charged $1000.00 for those attendees to receive a “special” prosperity prayer that would manifest riches to them within 30 days. I knew then there is something wrong with his ministry. Because not only did Eddie allow this, he did not correct the speaker for the $1000.00 prosperity alter prayer, and he kept in the CD set which was sold. As such going along with this unscriptural “pay for prosperity prayer”. How much would he have charged for a “salvation prayer”. I made up my mind to NEVER buy any tape or send money not only to Eddie but any of these pulpit pimps. I wonder how much money I paid for this CD set went to his pleasure liaisons. I can’t fault him for that, no one forced me to send in my money. I myself am guilty of spending money given to me by others on things they would not approve of. But don’t send me a tape set that basically told me, your $35.00 (actually $70.00 I bought a second one as a gift for someone) is nice. But you would have gotten more benefit if you would have paid to come to the conference and then pay another $1000.00 for the alter prosperity prayer by one of my pimps, oh I mean “speakers”.
If you are innocent, then proclaim it and fight it in the court room. But you have not “portrayed yourself” as an innocent man.
By the way Eddie, since you portrayed yourself as “David fighting Goliath”, and you stated like David you have five stones but haven’t thrown one yet. It is true David had five stones, but David ONLY threw ONE to knock the giant down. Then David took the giant’s own sword and cut off the head of the giant. So Eddie, like David, will you only throw one stone? Will you take the enemy’s own weapon to “slay then in a court of law”? I have heard sermons suggesting that the one stone David used was so effective was because that one stone represented “faith”. Do you have the faith to proclaim your innocence. Actually it would’nt require you to have a mustard seed size of faith, simply the self knowledge that you did not do these things. Apparently this self knowledge is absent, as was the absence of your assertion, “I am innocent, I did not do these things”. If you are innocent, don’t you think that one of your “five stones” is the rock solid proclamation of the words “I am innocent”. If so, why did’nt you used that stone today?
There are many hearsay exceptions, and there are several types of admissible non-hearsay. Prior inconsistent statements are admitted in some state and fed cases. Eddie was strategic to keep his comments vague.
Thank you ableC for the hearsay exceptions, very good explanation. By the way, I am searching for a Civil Attorney that is “Contingency Fee based” in San Antonio, Tx for an employment civil suit against my former employer. I would appreaciate any referrals. No its NOT in the same manner of the Eddie Long allegations!
Sorry. I’m a doctor — the PhD kind. Quite useless, I assure you.
“One of the more interesting and disturbing developments with this story is the literal frothing of the mouth some of us educated black folk get when presented with the opportunity to speak badly and joke about Christianity and Christians.”
It’s probably one of my biggest pet peeves and I’m not even a devout, practicing, “go to chuuch” Christian. It’s similar to the Mosque near Twin Towers situation. You can’t knock an entire religion because a person who happens to practice said religion does something effed up, alleged or not. Yes, he may represent said religion, but none of this sh*t is what the religion is based upon. Stop using an entire group (that you may not agree with or…FEAR) as a scapegoat.
I agree. This is about THIS situation. I have no disrespect towards anyone’s faith. I do not find fault with the faith, but with people who do horrible things under the guise of faith. I have issues with hypocrisy of any faith, including my own. I think a breach of the trust and the position one may hold as a spiritual guide is especially heinous.
Agreed.
Exactly!
And I have not seen a single person crucify Christianity for Eddie Long’s behavior… if anything, they said his brand of Christianity is NOT Christianity… So I don’t know what all the hoopla and supposed “frothing at the mouth” is referring to… or maybe I need blog hookups.
Just out of curiosity; why is it not Ok for people who don’t believe in religion to criticize said religion, but it is Ok for those of us who don’t believe in said religion to be some sort of animal that “froths at the mouth” because our opions differ?
I don’t get anything out of BEL being a hypocrite, and as far as I’m concerned, anyone who uses something like this as their sole reason for not being Christian, might just need Jesus.
Being hardcore Christians, yet analysts, the RibDonor & I have a few doubts.
1. All the lawsuits (well the 2 we read) are pretty vague and sound VERY similar. Bring forth the pics of the fellas in their rides (u know usses take em!) & their college reciepts & whatnot. Also, both mentioned specific dates for all the sexual stuff, but do not pinpoint when they got on payroll for the church. Their memories can’t be *that* bad when it comes to gettin paid. We all know what year & appx what month we started various jobs… specially those within the last 5 years!
2. No man, despite the irresistable juiciness of his jheri, has a 100% rating. Bring forth the accusers who were approached but who didn’t take the bait.
3. This is Gaylanta. Not too much homo-stigma will realy be on these accusers in or out of church. Additionally, being Gaylanta, it ain’t too farfetched for it to be a gay plot to take down a preacher who publicly stands against the sin of homosexuality.
But saying all that, Bishop could be guilty, could be innocent. We’ll see…
1. First complaints are filed.
2. Then discovery is conducted.
If Eddie often paid the kids in cash, then that’d reduce the paper trail.
The accusers will give Bernstein the approximate dates during which they were allegedly sponsored, paid, taken on travel, put up in condos, etc. They’ll allege monetary amounts, too. The accusers will supply their own records to substantiate the claims.
Bernstein will submit discovery requests to Eddie Long, New Birth, and LongFellows Academy to get any relevant receipts, travel records, hotel registrations, plane ticket stubs, and correspondence. (She’ll probably pass the documents along to the feds, but we’re not discussing fraud and embezzlement right now.)
point exactly… we’re at stage one, yet folks are 2.546 seconds from castrating, tarring & feathering the man, based purely on accusations.
shall we treat everyone like that? the invisible black man in the self-acidifying lady’s case?
idris’ character in daddy’s lil girls?
I’m sayin let’s just wait b4 we take sides, cuz just like Bishop looks a lil shady, so do the dudes.
As much as I don’t care for the man, this whole lawsuit/scandal sounds like some straight up biship. <—- you see what i did there?
Like shay-d-lady said, nobody said they were forced or anything. Those youngin’s were doing what they wanted to do. And for all those like they’re babies…f*ck that. I know what I was doing at 16 and it involved sneaking in and out of windows and unlawfully removing of vehicles to get the (chick) booty. Point is, what the f*ck is coercion?
If dude is guilty of anything, its being a hypocrite of the worst kind. He’s like the Strom Thurmond. Admonishing an entire racial group while scouring the pages of Black Tail trying to find him some juices and berries. The fact that he took it upon himself to attempt to reorient homosexuals and go on marches and now he’s out here banging out boys (I’m convinced this is true, legal schmegal, if you’re not guilty, you say that you didn’t have sexual relations with no boys).
What bothers me most about it is the idol worship involved. And its not just with him, its with any of our celebs who add something to our lives. Sure R. Kelly isn’t what he used to be, but I’ll be damned if ain’t still making music and we still move to it when it comes on at the club/house party/family reunion b/c it makes us feel good. For whatever reason, Eddie Long makes certain people feel better about themselves and their relationship with God so much so that they follow him. He’s become larger than the gospel that he’s espousing, in my opinion. Folks are so concerned with turning the other cheek that they’re willing to let an outwardly hypocritical man be the person that they go to for spiritual guidance. Hypocrisy is human, I’m aware, but there’s just something maniacal about KNOWING that your leader is completely full of sh*t and praising the man and standing up for him and saying that “he makes mistakes”.
I don’t get the impression that he somehow now will feel differently about homosexuality despite the fact that we’re all pretty sure he’s okay with a little manplay.
If anything, it just really bothers me the passes we give people. I know as Black folks we rally around our own, but I feel like we pick some outlandlisly f*cked up times to do so. Eddie isn’t gonna feel any pain from this. He’ll end up settling the sh*t out of court and a few years from now nobody will be talking about this.
I’m not sure what should happen here, as its not my job to hand out judgement, but i’ll be damned if I don’t look at everybody lobbing this ninja a pass with a wayward glance and I’d probably not let them babysit my kid.
As far as them ninjas who are filing the suit…lol…sounds like a shakedown. I’m guessing Eddie cut them off and they got pissed and want revenge. This is more about ruining his life than it is about “bringing the truth to light.” But they forgot one thing…
…they forgot how much Black folks RALLY around our fallen leaders. Look at Bill Cosby or Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton’s hair. Or Barack Obama. Sure they have their problems or father’d kids out of wedlock or won’t let a perm go, they are now and will always be icons. Hate them or love them. Eddie aint them dudes, but to his flock, he is. And that way, he will remain.
You know what, you’re right. I did mention that in my post. I think Eddie Long did use his status and power to get young ding a ling but I am completely baffled at how you can get straight 16 year old boys to perform sexual acts on another man? I may be niave but that’s one HELL of a coercion. <—-you see what i did there?
Now there must be more to the story like were the boys homeless? Was Eddie supporting them financially? Cause if it came between living on the street or a luxurious condo you best believe Imma let Long Stroke ______….oh sorry that's innappropriate but you get the point. Don't judge me. #imjustsayin
“Like shay-d-lady said, nobody said they were forced or anything. Those youngin’s were doing what they wanted to do. And for all those like they’re babies…f*ck that. I know what I was doing at 16 and it involved sneaking in and out of windows and unlawfully removing of vehicles to get the (chick) booty. Point is, what the f*ck is coercion? ”
The accusers probably were NOT boys who showed up at LongFellows with a gun in their back pocket, a knife between their teeth, and a pitbull on a choke chain. They were likely more vulnerable and suggestible than that.
IF they were brainwashed into compliance with the Bishop’s dictates from age 14 or drugged with Ambien or placated with Bible verses or drunk on Jesus juice or blackmailed,
THEN they may have lacked capacity to withstand Eddie’s advances (even though most kids their age would have brushed him off). Heck, maybe they were just mental midgets. I don’t know. I wouldn’t expect a minor boy to be as sexually sophisticated as a 50+ year old man.
“As far as them ninjas who are filing the suit…lol…sounds like a shakedown. I’m guessing Eddie cut them off and they got pissed and want revenge.”
What if they ARE motivated by revenge and greed for more money?
So what?
Should they NOT be allowed to allege the Bishop’s sexual misconduct with minors because of that?
Must their motives be pure?
Did Eddie target teens with purity of heart and lofty ideals? Allegedly?
If Eddie calls this a shakedown, he doesn’t want to tangle with the IRS.
“…they forgot how much Black folks RALLY around our fallen leaders.” Swaggart still had an international broadcast after he was caught with the 2nd prostitute. But then again, the feds indicted Al Capone for tax evasion.
@Panama…
16 year old boys and sex
You make the point that these boys “knew” what was up because you and many other vsb’s would perform herculean task to get some, so the idea of having to coerce is bizarre to you.
I think that your point actually proves the opposite. While you were willing to risk it all, climbing through windows in the middle of the night in order to engage, with these young boys he HAD TO use money, status, power and threats to get these dudes to comply with his sexual demands.
Even with his rock star spiritual status they weren’t climbing through his windows throwing boxer briefs for an opportunity to get (or give) a bj. And there in lies the difference.
Cause you weren’t climbing through window for a car or trip, it was desire that drove you… and I don’t hear that in these stories
I also think that one of the key points that is overlooked that our fatherless culture makes our children MORE susceptible to the advances of predators be they boys or girls.
There is a desperate need in our community for adult male attention and affection… and grown folks KNOW that and abuse that knowledge.
When the R.Kelly incidents happened I sat back and listened to all the fast tail heffa, them girls knew what they were doing convos…
And the only thing I could think was how much ish have you been through that you co-sign someone using you as a toilet at 15.
I think the same of these boys.
Not trying to step on any vsb egos but the truth is these weren’t fully baked grown folks… you ain’t a man at 16.
These were most probably fatherless kids without any direction or guidance who had no concept of what appropriate mentoring was.
Then you add in the fact that Long isn’t perceived by his congregation as a regular mortal rapper, actor or athlete… but as a prophet of God. That goes a bit beyond celebrity influence don’t you think.
And as someone pointed out, just like in the R.Kelly example folks round the ATL probably been talking about the good right Bishop’s mentor program and his Longfellow with raised eyebrows for decades.
Cause I know in Chi Kelly’s rep for visiting south side high schools and grammar schools is as known as the years of police “harassment” he faced for playing his car stereo too loud outside of teenage hang outs like the rock and roll McDonald’s. Can you say Pied Piper.
And the materialism matters, especially if these boys have grown up with nothing, told they weren’t sh*t and would never be… and then to have such an esteemed man not only pay attention to them but “bless” them with gifts, trips, etc beyond their wildest dreams.
The cornerstone of their religion is that giving of oneself in service to God is rewarded materially. You tithe, volunteer, fry fish… you get all your bills paid and rims for your trouble
The bigger question in my mind isn’t the legal age of consent but rather is a 16 year old boy savvy enough to deny the request of (who he believes to be) a Prophet of God. ~JS
Excellent post and argument!
*applauds*
Great post!!
The bigger question in my mind isn’t the legal age of consent but rather is a 16 year old boy savvy enough to deny the request of (who he believes to be) a Prophet of God. ~JS
not to be funny but that’s one HELL of a leap of faith there. and you’re making some pretty astounding assumptions about these boys and their mental capacities. and they all weren’t 16. one was. not that it makes it better, just stating facts.
and while i may not be a man at 16, i for damn sure know that i’m not going to take the sexual advances of a man unless i want them. now the argument then becomes did he lavish them with all this stuff to “coerce” them into wanting to receive that type of attention from him. and that’s a fair question. but unless these were the most confused of the confused and the ones who were absolutely most vulnerable i’m not buying it. and since we don’t know, i’m not going to assume that to be the case.
i’m not going to say that they knew what he was up to, but i get the feeling that they could have denied his advances if they wanted to. i’m not blaming the victim here, i’m more loathed to call anybody a victim in this case. that might be unPC but based on what i’ve read (admittedly not EVERYTHING) it just seems to me like perhaps they were exchanging these favors for his favors. me no know. is he a sexual predator? that sounds so harsh, i guess technically, but i view him more as a sexual opportunists. but i guess he did prey on them but its a slippery slope.
with the r kelly thing i’m way more comfortable calling him a sexual predator b/c he clearly has a history of dealing with young girls. underaged in ANY jurisdiction. just underaged. i can see R kelly telling these chicks that he’d make them stars and they’d fall for it.
are we to assume that eddie told these boys he’d get them into heaven if they gave him some dome? cuz now we’re assuming that these boys were dumb. if he said i’ll give you a house and free tuition and sh*t if you suck me off…then they were also opportunists.
im not saying any of this is right, but to me it doesnt sound so cut and dry to be like, hey, he coerced them with the opportunity for a better life and if they’d just pull his schlong.
i guess all that is to say that at 16 or 17 or 18, most boys know what we’re doing. and most of us who got guidance would definitely shun certain activities and just fall back from the dude altogether. why wait til now, years later to come out about this. and after robbing him. lol.
some of it just seems mad ‘spicious.
I don’t agree at all. A sixteen year old will put in work for a drug dealer too, because they see he has amassed a certain level of respect and power. Some of these kids don’t want to kill anyone, but they will to get the benefit of community, family, and material comforts. So it is not a leap at all to think a 16 year old would do that same thing for a minister that has amassed wealth and power and that their OWN MOMMA co-signs on. Especially if he’s reciting the Bible to defend his actions (which I read he allegedly did). The safest place a kid thinks they are is in the church amongst God-fearing people who are righteous and when that trust is manipulated, they could definitely be coerced. The cat you feel is giving you spiritual salvation and salvation you can see and experience (it’s tangible) in the form of benefits is telling you to do some something chexual. Now couple that with having no male role model or othes who have taken an interest in you. Not a huge leap at all.
okay, fair enough. are we sure that was all these kids cases? i cant assume one way or another which is why teh whole things looks suspicious to me.
even whatever they say in the suit docs like…lol…some of that stuff just seemed like…wtf are you talking about? then again, maybe i’m just not as impressionable so i dont understand the plight of the weakminded.
if ANY man in a mentor position to me tried to even put his hands on my shoulder and give it a rub, i’d be like, whoa now. wtf. but thats cuz i dont get down like that. and i dont like surprises.i guess everybody else aint able.
I don’t know if it was their case at all, just that it is possible and not a huge leap to make. Yet, whatever their motives and even if they enjoyed it, doesn’t absolve Mr. Long of being foul (even if it isn’t against the law) if the allegations are true. Paying for sexual favors when you routinely preach against that is hypocrisy the the fullest and an abuse of one’s stature and resources.
“and while i may not be a man at 16, i for damn sure know that i?m not going to take the sexual advances of a man unless i want them. ”
iono, PJ… these days, being gay, bi, or experimenting with it is acceptable and sometimes even encouraged. to them, it could have been considered a normal part of s.e.xual development to have a male lover (based on some of these newer ‘norms’).
also, these dudes alleged that the Bishop interfered with their relationships with their various girlfriends – which leads me to infer that they (if all their allegations are true) just “experimented” with him anyway, ‘trying to decide’ what they really wanted. still doesn’t quite sound like coersion.
and have ya’ll befriended many teens of today? they understand a whole lot more abt s.ê.x than we’re give em credit for in this discussion.
again – guilty or innocent, we’ll see.
@ Panama
“why wait til now, years later to come out about this. and after robbing him. lol. ”
The deaf Catholic featured on CNN is suing the pope more than 40 years after the alleged abuse occurred. The average teenage David doesn’t have the resources and empowerment to take on Goliath.
Were all 4 accusers involved in the robbery?
“is he a sexual predator? that sounds so harsh, i guess technically, but i view him more as a sexual opportunists. but i guess he did prey on them but its a slippery slope.”
People entrusted Eddie Long with their minor sons when they allowed him to house the kids in his condos, take the kids on trips, and educate the children at his school. ANY “sexual opportunism” would violate those fiduciary duties — even if Eddie couched it as an exchange of favors or as a way for the boys to gain God’s favor.
Some of the allegations state that the Bishop escalated the sexual pressure when the boys were abroad — thousands of miles away from their parents and guardians. How cunning! The boys probably lacked the resources to get themselves back home if he abandoned them in Kenya or New Zealand. There may have been a combination of duress and Ambien and bullying and blackmailing. There was certainly a huge difference in sophistication.
“not to be funny but that’s one HELL of a leap of faith there. and you’re making some pretty astounding assumptions about these boys and their mental capacities. and they all weren’t 16. one was. not that it makes it better, just stating facts.”
You got me on this one… I am making assumptions lumping in the history of other similar incidents that have made the headlines, and adding to that I too “grew up in the church” so I freely admitt to being cynical in my conclusions.
I don’t know… these are just my thoughts.
“and while i may not be a man at 16, i for damn sure know that i’m not going to take the sexual advances of a man unless i want them. now the argument then becomes did he lavish them with all this stuff to “coerce” them into wanting to receive that type of attention from him. and that’s a fair question. but unless these were the most confused of the confused and the ones who were absolutely most vulnerable i’m not buying it. and since we don’t know, i’m not going to assume that to be the case.”
As for quid pro quo sex and sexual opportunist…
Speaking for myself I think that remembering your maturity at 16 is different than raising a teen and actually seeing how mature they are vs. how mature they THINK they are.
I personally considered myself very mature and intelligent for my age when I was 16, 17, 18… but due to my lack of experience some of the choices that I made carried consequences that I hadn’t thought of and wasn’t as prepared for the ones I did think of.
I look back and realize that I was only grown on paper.
And I hear that in their stories, sounds like they made decisions and consented to actions because they were coerced. My point is coercion is about using power or influence to gain compliance, not two consenting adults coming to a mutual agreement.
So we substitute predator for opportunist… tomato, tomatoe… because as you said yourself at that age you would have told dude to step off…
My question is would dude even approach you.
I am guessing here that young dudes with some guidance, strong father figure, who were typically stable, who might take a swing weren’t at the top of his list… there were lots of dudes who went through the program who weren’t approached. I think that he knew who to target.
Preachers, therapists and lawyers are granted the same protection when it comes to communication because people confide in them. How much power would you have over someone if you knew all their business. How much of it was do this and I won’t tell that.
In the environment of that type of black church he is given access to all sorts of private information about the young boys he is mentoring, he knows their secrets, and their fears… like a therapist with the spirituality added that is a powerful combo. So I think it was deeper than just money.
I have seen these guys go to work when they are “praying” for someone in front of a full congregation and then watch them break down grown azz men because they know their triggers. I can just imagine what they could accomplish privately and over a long enough period of time.
I also reject that it was just about money for flesh… I mean why sh*t where you eat.
With his ability to provide if he was just into quid pro quo why not find his amusements elsewhere.
It would make more sense to go outside of the church because there would be less probability of connecting the dots, less of a paper trail, less credibility on the part of boys. But then he wouldn’t have “power” over dudes outside his circle of influence
Which is why I think that it wasn’t just about paying for his vices, but more about having power over these boys, using whatever his influence was to get them to do what they wouldn’t most likely under other circumstances…
Which is coercion… in my opinon~JS
Jhane Sez – Great comment!!!!! I agree with every word you typed.
Excellent post!
Excellent comment. Well done.
“As far as them ninjas who are filing the suit?lol?sounds like a shakedown. I?m guessing Eddie cut them off and they got pissed and want revenge. This is more about ruining his life than it is about ?bringing the truth to light.?”
This was stated EXPLICITLY in the court docs for the first two – the plaintiff found out he wasn’t the only one & wanted to hurt the defendant in the only way he could.
which is exactly why we should wait & see b4 we jump to any conclusions.
Their motives really have nothing to do with the Bishop being wrong if he did it.
that i do agree with. the question is what is he wrong of. coercion sounds spicious.
i guess my big beef her is what is his crime? if its of the sexual deviant route, whycome nobody’s filed a criminal suit? you telling me the ga attorney’s office wouldn’t eat this alive? perhaps they’re waiting in the wings to hit him with the hee. me no know.
the whole thing just seems…odd.
“i guess my big beef her is what is his crime?”
If the allegations are true, I’d say hypocrisy and abuse of stature and resources. It isn’t against the law, but it is of poor moral character especially for a minister who is to represent the righteousness. By being a minister, one is entrusted with a lot (a lot of private information through ministering that makes people vulnerable and allows for the opportunity of a person to prey on those vulnerabilities). To manipulate that trust is beyond horrible.
i agree with you. i said it in my initial comment that hypocrisy is what annoys me most about the entire thing. it is not a crime though. that’s something he’ll have to face his god for. the moral argument i agree with, but that’s not a crime.
“If the allegations are true, I?d say hypocrisy and abuse of stature and resources. ”
Also explicitly stated in the cases.
Which is why I wonder what there is to really discuss since there is no real rebuttal in existience & why I keep saying “guilty or innocent, we’ll see…”
It’s a civil suit.
No criminal charges have been brought by a prosecutor.
No grand jury has rendered an indictment.
Think civil: broken contracts, car accidents, faulty repairs, misrepresentations, alienation of affection, etc.
For example, bvblackspin dot com indicates that the 4th kid alleges “Breach of Fiduciary Duty; Negligence; Fraud; Infliction of Emotional Distress and other Counts based on Sexual Acts by Bishop Long against this young male church member.”
The judge might agree with you that a pastor’s fiduciary duties do not extend to abstaining from sexual seduction of 17 year old male congregants (even if their parents entrust the boys to his care). Another judge might overrule that on appeal.
We’ll likely never find out what any judge thinks, as Bishop will probably settle out of court to preempt disclosures that would further damage his reputation.
It’s more expensive to pay off and silence 30 plaintiffs than to pay off 4 plaintiffs. Only Eddie has an accurate idea of how many young men have legitimate grounds to file similar suits.
See Don Lemon’s segment with members of Long’s church?
http://clutchmagonline.com/lifeculture/feature/bishop-eddie-long-is-hardly-the-main-issue/
Lemon came out as an survivor of abuse (mad props…) – which was powerful. But the close-lipped passivity of the church members was really eerie – in that “I’ve been brainwashed into thinking my salvation is tied to my preacher so I ain’t saying sh*t, lest I go to hell” kind of way.
Maybe I’m just a heathen, but this sad fiasco just co-signs (once again) my belief that devotion to a **religious institution (or any institution) is seriously problematic.
**Note that I said “religious institution” not God…which would be a good thing to devote oneself too. Religion just gets in the way of that.
It was astonishing to see late teens early twenties black folks making a fool of themselves. It was like watching those tea party supporters. Supporting him no matter how wrong he is.
They would have been better off saying EL is not perfect and I can reach God myself (this doesn’t affect my relationship with God). The problem is: they are really going to look like fools if he is proven guilty.
“religious institution” not God…which would be a good thing to devote oneself too. Religion just gets in the way of that
I need a pamphlet or something… because it’s too long for a t-shirt.
I live in Atlanta and am not at all surprised about these allegations against Eddie Long – why – because I heard that he was doing this 6 years ago from my uncle who used to be Eddie Long’s pastor in the 80′s.
“Bishop” Long is a product of the “New Atlanta” Chrisitianity. He moved to Atlanta after college and tried to fit into the traditional Baptist church environment and was actually ordained by my great uncle. However, the old Atlanta christian circles was a very tight-knit and traditional group that boasted MLK as their example, Morehouse degrees and a Cadillac Fleetwood as the automobile of choice – IF you had a thousand parishoners. The most flaboyance you were going to get was a 4 bedroom house and a pretty wife
Bishop Long broke off from that traditionalism to form his own Baptist sect that catered to the throngs of Black Atlanta transplants that had moved to the suburbs looking for a sense of community and religious cohesiveness. With that came an entire sub-culture of Black Mega churches here that included Creflo Dollar.
The way they dressed (flashy, Steve Harvey-type suits), they way they talked (“Bishop said…”) and the cars they drove (typically luxury vehicles with rims on it) was almost cult like and turned off a lot of highly educated and/or traditional Christians because it seemed like there was a lot of secular values mixed in with Christianity – like intense materialism and full pictoral calendars with Bishop Long and his family being featured and sold in the church. BTW, there is an ATM machine in the foyer of New Birth.
I say all this to say, that in Atlanta, this scandal with Bishop Long represents more than a way-ward preacher touching on teenage boys. It represents an indictment on an entire sub-culture of Christianity that many folks here have been skeptical of since the beginning. Bishop Long’s parishoner’s deified him by hanging up his calendars on their cubicle walls, often referencing scripture by starting the conversations off with “Bishop said…” and lavishing him with expensive gifts (Bentleys, planes, mansions, etc.).
They never checked him on his materialism, vanity and flamboyant life-style. Now, not only is their leader going to be scruitnized, but after the media is finished with this story – their entire way of worshiping will be examined. This mkes them very uncomfortable which is why they are holding on to thier blind faith.
The irony of churches with ATM machines is consistently lost on parishioners.
I don’t know how I would feel about an ATM in the foyer of my church BUT I pay my tithes by my Mastercard (debit) card every two weeks. #shrugs
Who carries cash?
There’s a church in Columbia SC that owns its own bank. Still not sure how I feel about that.
Thanks for some inside insight. It’s bad in ATL…the megachurch culture is nothing more than smoke and mirrors, and those who develop a personal relationship with God realize it. Why? Because God reveals truth to all those who seek it. When you blindly follow a man, God let’s you do so. He only reveals to those who seek HIM, and not an imitation or substitute for him.
“BTW, there is an ATM machine in the foyer of New Birth.”
Lol this sentence reminds me of Charlie Murphy’s quote in Roll Bounce. Where he said: Get kicked out of church because you no longer have money for the collection plate. They want you out!
Well-said, and amen.
I haven’t had a chance to read everyone’s comments, but there have definitely been some interesting points made. We will never know exactly what happened between Eddie and those young men. I’ve been trying not to jump to conclusions, but it does not look good for Eddie. Those pictures changed the game. It’s possible those pics were taken out of context, however it’s not a good look he sent those to young men. That’s just not something someone in his position should do. It does not look good that he took those boys on trips on a 1 on 1 basis. It just doesn’t look good. Someone in his position should know better. A “CEO” of a major corporation should have advisors and they would tell him how to keep scandals away from the “corporation”.
I find it interesting that it’s such a big deal whenever it is found out that a minister is gay or is accused of performing gay acts. But it’s ok for ministers to be womanizers. In many churches it is well known that the ministers run around with women and no one says anything. What gives? Fornication, committing adultery, and homosexuality are all sins why have humans made being gay the big bad sin. I didn’t know there was a ranking of sins in the Bible.
Additionally, I am very bothered by the fact that Eddie is accused of having relations with young men who were barely legal and he arrived in church to a standing ovation. That was very disturbing. We’re not supposed to abandon folks in times of trouble but that ovation was disturbing as hell. Plus he never said he didn’t do it.
I do not regularly attend any church. I visit only when friends invite me, and so I have visited NB…three times to be exact, and thats when it didnt have all the buildings they do now, and it was on the fast ladder to being a mega church. NB sent a van out to the AUC to pick up the students who didnt have a ride and a new found friend asked me to come. My first visit, there was a guest pastor who was excellent. I loved his sermon but I was amazed at the setup of the church. They were selling dvds, cds and tapes of past services and I was like wow…really?!?. Then the next two times I visited, Eddie Long preached and I was immediately turned off. Something about him struck me as off and there was a different energy when he was there. I have never been back. When I see him on tv, I turn the channel.
I am not shocked at his actions. Then again I don’t suscribe to the mentality that a preacher isn’t human or better yet a man. He is not God and no matter how good his relationship is with God, I value mines alot more. I’m still trying to figure out why people really continue to have the sheep mentality and blind faith and trust in this man…I’m leaning toward the idea that they have to stand behind all the money they dished out.
I quit watching EL when he started wearing muscle shirts and vests in the pulpit. I also had a bad taste in my mouth when he was preaching with a ipad yesterday morning.
I’m leaning toward the idea that they have to stand behind all the money they dished out.
As good a reason as any… Lol.
I’ve got a question. I have a few gay friends of both genders and I’ve always wondered why homosexuality is now a hot button issue in politics and in what should be another realm the church? I didn’t like going to church as a kid but I did pay attention when I was there. Not once did I remember hearing the topic of homosexuality come up until I got to college in the late. (Was this a case of preachers in smaller areas mimicking their counterparts in larger metropolitan churches?)
Is this a dodge on the part of churches to fill seats and membership roles? Everytime I’ve asked this question I only get scripture and the words of an individual. So I just have to know.
One of my big little sisters asked this question of me one day and I couldn’t answer it. Ms, Moneypenny also asked me this too:
Why are there always larger numbers of women in black churches than men?
I’ll take you answer off-air.
I read a study about this a while back. One of the interesting points that was made in it was that men are often turned off by the feminine emotion filled style of worship that is found in Black Church.
@Dash
“that men are often turned off by the feminine emotion filled style of worship”
Ok. I can see that too. I don’t emote well so maybe this was one of my turnoffs about church.
@Wu Young
Well a large population of black women are single. Alot of them seeking to belong to something. Some seeking a man. Church sounds like a good place. Fellowship.
HopefullyGood examples of what you desire in a man from the male leaders of the church.Some of them probably even have relationships in their head w/ these men of God.
This is just a thought. Not meant to offend anybody.
@LaBakir
That’s an interesting take on it. I wondered about that after a bad outing at a prosperity church one day.
I think it lends to the ‘pimp in the pulpit’ idea that some people feel about some churches. Plus, it can be emasculating because some women will hold pastor’s word higher than the man they stood before God and took a marriage vow to and above all others. It’s been addressed and I saw the difference in a documentary on Brass Band churches that had high male participation because the spiritual guidance came in the form of the music the band played and less than what the preacher said (preacher gave spiritual guidance but said in the documentary sometimes a sermon was not needed and the music said it all). I also understand there is other culture of some churches that is simply very effeminate and emasculating where some men refuse to attend and take part.
Maybe primarily for the community aspect that a church offers?
All I want to know is why is he wearing Batman’s summer suit? Or was he going to WWE tryouts?
BWHAHAHAHAHA… omg. At least I know I wasn’t the only one looking for the artillery belt.
The pics remind me of Punk from “I Love New York”/Mr. Jennifer Hudson who is a WWE wrestler now. Bishop Eddie Long would be a great wrestling stage name, and he does have the charisma to be money on the mic. I think he missed his calling.
@Humble_One
Actually, it looks more like something out of Batgirl’s lingerie drawer.
But in the Bishop’s defense, the 80′s are back in style. Perhaps he was going for the Cameo look, minus the red codpiece. Word up.
Lol@ Batman summer suit.
Maybe he was sending the picture to Robin so he could come over to the Bat Cave.
*In Alfred’s voice* “Master Eddie, young master Dick has arrived.”
Bwahahahaha. iDie.
I thought Eddie was the Black Captain Kirk from Star Trek yesterday when I saw it on CNN. I would have died if he said “Beam me up Scottie” during that botched press conference yesterday morning.
(forgive my extra, but I forgot something.)
4. The pics could have easily been acquired when they stole his stuff. Show me a timestamped msg with corresponding msg data from the cellica phone co.
again… could be innocent, could be guilty… we’ll see.
lol@my *extra* when #1 is in moderation…
since I’m on mobile & can’t use the *reply* function correctly…
SmartFoxGirl mentioned a belief in the sinfulness of homosexuality. yet in the same breath denied the sinner the ability to control it. scripture teaches that we’re all born of a sinful nature, hence the need for being born again or saved. so if liars can stop lying through the power of God…
WuYoung asked abt the populations of men in the church. blackandmarriedwithkids.com did a blog abt that not too long ago with interesting insight.
This can’t be Eddie. Is it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg2cg25jQyI
Well to appear neutral and “fair” I suppose I can lie and say I’m unsure about him being “guilty”. However that would be a lie. I’m about 99.9% convinced that he’s guilty. And miss me with all the legal jargon, this is good plain ole judgement.
And I can be honest as to why, no matter how premature it may seem.
1) Those pictures. I cannot fathom any logical reason any one besides a bodybuilder, takes bathroom pics of themselves clad in spandex. Let alone a pastor. Who the hell was he sending them to?
2) Anyone who so vehemently decries homosexuality as Long did always raises a red flag to me. You might as well be flashing your year long membership to your local manhole.
3) His seemingly fixed focus on the young men in his church. I’ve been to many churches that have understandably so, made efforts to minister to young black male youth. However this was to create brotherhood amongst their peers,and other men in the fellowship not the personal relationship between them and the pastor. That whole ceremony with the unity candle, and the vows..is nothing short of bizarre. I don’t understand the need for such intimacy between he and these young men.
And I can’t help but wonder if equal efforts were directed towards their young female counterparts?
*wait for it*
I also find it curious as to how so many black Christians are now wanting to be “patient” and wait for concrete evidence. Such objectivity was nowhere to be found while mocking the Catholic church when their sex abuse scandal’s broke. Gee………..
Lastly,I’m not surprised at the support he’s getting. When you accuse a pastor, or priest, it just allows them to attribute said accusations to the work of the devil. Using “The World” as a tool for judgment and persecution, because he (the devil) hates them (the church) for doing God’s work. Thus inciting his wrath. They get to play martyr, and this just convinces the church members to support him even more.
I don’t think it matters if these young men “enjoyed” their sexual experiences with EL. Sex is a pleasurable act and the fact that sometimes victims can derive pleasure from these encounters makes them all the more ashamed.
Eddie Long is a “Man Of God” and a mentally capable adult who “allegedly” used his wealth,power,and influence to engage in inappropriate acts with young men whose parents trusted him.It’s violation of his faith, and the trust of his dedicated flock.
That in of itself is crime enough.
girl, you did that with this post.
i teach communications and i talk to my students about is the relevancy of text messages as a communications tool. texting itself connotes a level of intimacy that is perceived. texting one a “bathroom” pics simply says “here is my being in private, yet I care enough about you [or an deranged and want to overshare]” that i wish to send this special message to you. it is a message that not just anyone can get get so you are special to me.
and fyi, i ain’t even so much sent a picture message to my hubby -mainly cause he sees me naked everyday. so boom.
girl, you did that with this post
She sho’ did.
Love it.
Anyone who so vehemently decries homosexuality as Long did always raises a red flag to me. You might as well be flashing your year long membership to your local manhole.
Right. He’s overcompensating.
Just came across this piece by Christopher Hitchens on Slate.com, I don’t always agree with him politically or philosophically, but he’s hit the nail on the head.
Gods Bigmouths: Men like Eddie Long are fouling the legacy of the civil rights movement
http://www.slate.com/id/2268796/?from=rss
After reading all of the comments I don’t know how I feel.
We all see things through the lens of our experience and all of us have probably at some point been dazzled by the perception of someone with power only to be let down when the lights dim and the “real” person is exposed. So its easy to see this case through the eyes of the alleged victims. And because “Bishop” Eddie long is such a caricature and so staunchly homophobic its easy to dislike him. He is not one that garners sympathy so its easy to make this an open and shut case.
I also think that it’s a shame how this has turned into an indictment of religion and of the people in his flock.
I am not Christian but I don’t necessarily believe these people are “stupid” or “cult members’ because they are supporting him.
I think that regardless of what we on the outside think we have never heard him preach, have not experienced the side of him that has made so many follow him.
That being said, at this point there is no proof of wrong doing. Just allegations. I cant speak for Eddie Long but I would hope that if I was simply accused of wrong doing, before my career and personal life is completely destroyed; I am at least given the opportunity to be proven guilty.
So I understand why they are there and supporting him.
This aside from the fact that the 2 boys that first brought the suit against the bishop were recently arrested for breaking into the church so I can see why there is enough doubt to keep them in support.
Being more spiritual than religious I try to live my life by the golden rule which means I try to treat others the way that I want to be treated and while I have an opinion on this I am not in a position to condemn ANYONE for their actions.
I question both the motive and motivation of the victims. I question Eddie Long and his staunch homophobia. In my opinion homophobia is a result of fear of the unknown or fear of oneself. So yeah I can see him being a man of god believing that homosexuality is a sin and therefore hating this part of him enough to act out against it. Because I believe that, I can believe that these allegations could be true..
Which brings me to another question I struggle with….
Can someone coerce a man against his s.e.xuality?
There are a lot of questions that will probably never be answered in this and there are no winners. Public opinion will force a settlement I believe because the standard of proof is so low in civil court.
Which means that those who want to believe he is innocent beyond a shadow of a doubt can find enough justification to do so, and those that feel he is guilty will justify it as well.
And those in the middle will be left….
In the middle.
*Can someone coerce a man against his s.e.xuality?*
context. background.
try… can an authority figure with full access to a young teen GRADUALLY bend thier concepts of love, duty, gratitude towards a sexual relationship. please bear in mind that the church is against sex before marraige. a favored youth member probably has a very different path as regards sexual relations with any sex especially as regards letting the congregation or thier community know.
This is just another example of why I never rest my devoutness on the man (or woman) in the pulpit. I’m 100% sure that we’d all be disappointed in the hypocrisy that stems from the actions of church leaders when held to the expectation of a perfect existence. That is unless your Pastor is Jesus Christ himself.
Where there is a Pastor, Priest or Bishop, there will be sin. No mutual exclusion here.
My point is to say that we should not be surprised – and not that we should EVER accept such heinous behavior – but even the most monstrous people have the potential to become immensely successful within their professional arena. Their lack of emotional consciousness probably contributed to their success…
Worship The Man and not the man.
Word.
I personally have no hard feelings about any of this because it’s a sad fact of our society and our religions. Sometimes God’s representatives don’t represent Him at all, and it’s just a learned fact.
the pasted web address below is not vulgar or x-rated material. But an ACTUAL video excerpt sermon of Eddie Long. In this sermon, he may well have meant this context as a “metaphor”, but with all these allegations against him and his refusal of proclaiming his innocence. This sort of puts everything in question about him including some of sermons like this one.
http://whatsabeatwithoutbass.tumblr.com/post/1199355586/the-job-of-the-preacher-is-to-bring-fresh-sperm
A few thoughts…
1. For those who are questioning coercion, saying you were coerced by men, or that you knew what you were doing when you were 16, were you having sexual relations with someone 30-40 years your senior who was in a position of power over you? Did you have an inappropriate relationship with a man or a woman whom you trusted, like a coach or spiritual advisor? I think people are confused about abuse, and are too quick to question it b/c the boys were 16. Would it be better for you if the alleged victims were 15, and still called it coercion?
2. If these were girls, it hurts me to say that they would be demonized in the media, from the clothes they wear to their prior and current sexual behavior. It sickens me to think about it.
3. Who in the hell ordained him as a Bishop?
3. Who in the hell ordained him as a Bishop?
I want to know to!
In the words of my favorite uncle Ruckus, “That N&%$# Guilty!” Cleary he is allowed to run all up and through without friends or handlers who would have also vetoed him wearing that Jheri Cap on a Sunday when THEY KNEW media would be present.
Such sadness- Queen takes Bishop!
They say a picture is worth a thousand words…
http://www.hiphopblog.com/images/gossip/bijuan01_25_Sep_2010.jpg
Umm… yeah
Also, am I the only one who thought this morning – “I need to step my game up in a world where a pastor is in much better shape than I am”? That is the true tragedy in this entire situation.
Don’t feel bad. That Bentley, Jet, and custom suit money probably also allows for a personal chef and trainer.
I think it’s wrong to vilify any belief system due to the actions of a few individuals. Many (improperly named) “atheists” see this as a way to attack Christianity in a “HA! This is why you suck” tone since they have been attacked by individual Christians at an earlier point in life.
There’s no correlation between education of a black person and their level of faith in the Christian belief system. Even if there is a correlation, that doesn’t prove causation. The relative amount of “educated” people believing or not believing doesn’t make the faith itself more or less important or believable. So basically, it doesn’t matter… Who cares…
Jokes are to be had at the expense of EVERYONE. Don’t get all sensitive now b/c people are making Eddie Long(stroke) jokes.
Know what “atheist” means. And yes, sometimes people call themselves something to take ownership of the word without knowing (or caring about) what it means. Ex. Atheist, nigger, bitch, etc…
Know the difference between voicing an opinion and passing judgment. Judgment requires an action. you know like no longer attending New Birth, fighting, slamming a gavel, etc…
This isn’t about “what if” they were girls… It should be about the how could the black community should continue to look at and homosexuality. Just take Eddie out the conversation… He’s really not THAT important. Well, at least not in comparison to our children. How do we teach them to be tolerant and accepting without making ourselves FEEL like we’re undermining our belief system?
Thank you for saying all the things I wanted to say… but in a shorter comment. Lol.
and the Eddie Long(stroke) jokes are funny. I don’t care what anybody says, I’ll laugh.
Maannnnn don’t tell anyone, but I’ve been following the twitter account under @eddielongstroke. Whoever opened that account is
f*ckin’ hilariousdead wrong!People are so mean
and funny!My bad… Forgot to censor.
I think it’s wrong to vilify any belief system due to the actions of a few individuals. Many (improperly named) “atheists” see this as a way to attack Christianity in a “HA! This is why you suck” tone since they have been attacked by individual Christians at an earlier point in life.
There’s no correlation between education of a black person and their level of faith in the Christian belief system. Even if there is a correlation, that doesn’t prove causation. The relative amount of “educated” people believing or not believing doesn’t make the faith itself more or less important or believable. So basically, it doesn’t matter… Who cares…
Jokes are to be had at the expense of EVERYONE. Don’t get all sensitive now b/c people are making Eddie Long(stroke) jokes.
Know what “atheist” means. And yes, sometimes people call themselves something to take ownership of the word without knowing (or caring about) what it means. Ex. Atheist, n**ger, b*tch, etc…
Know the difference between voicing an opinion and passing judgment. Judgment requires an action. you know like no longer attending New Birth, fighting, slamming a gavel, etc…
This isn’t about “what if” they were girls… It should be about the how could the black community should continue to look at and homosexuality. Just take Eddie out the conversation… He’s really not THAT important. Well, at least not in comparison to our children. How do we teach them to be tolerant and accepting without making ourselves FEEL like we’re undermining our belief system?
When I first heard about these civil suits against Eddie Long last Tuesday I searched the web for every detail regarding the “facts of the case” from the plaintiffs allegations. Then it went to me constantly looking at the latest updates by google on the “Tweets” being made, and I don’t even have a “Tweeter account”. Then it went to me looking for every “youtube” video parody and all the sordid Eddie Long jokes. I admit that some of them had me laughing until my sides cramped up and still wanted MORE! Ok, I got carried away with the “sordidness” of this sad matter. Its time to look to a “higher” point of view. I think this scripture sums of how we are really to find God, and the truth within, and yes its still through Jesus;
John 4:21 (KJV)
Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, (church building or temple ) nor yet at Jerusalem, (any certain city or “conference) worship the Father.
In other words, Jesus was saying clearly, we don’t need a “church building” to worship or approach God. Perhaps this Eddie Long scandal is a wake up call to this scripture, to seek God, the truth on your own and right where you are; home, on a walk, where ever you are.
Most people don;t even know what really happen in the Garden of Eden. Most Seminary Schools teach preachers the truth of the Garden of Eden, but they are “forbidden to teach it, that Satan seduced Eve and brought his evil “serpent seed” into this world. Cain was the son of Satan, Able was Adam’s son. Two different seedlines, which is why Jesus said;
“You are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and stayed not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.” John 8:44 (KJV). Jesus was speaking to “satan’s seed” on earth!
If you read the genealogy of Adam in Genesis you will NOT see Cain’s name, but you will seed Able’s name!!!!!!!
You can go to this site for more information on the “serpent seedline”;
http://www.serpentseedline.com or
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:sl_6L8qo0wEJ:www.serpentseedline.com/+serpent+seed+line&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
or http://www.sherryshriner.com or do your own google search.
I would also suggest when you read bible scriptures go to a concordance site to look up the orginal translation of words in scriture, whether it be Greek in the New Testament or Hebrew in the Old Testament and this will give you clarity of what is really being said. Of course pray to God for understanding, revelation and discernment.
In short, its time for truth seekers, God seekers, and even the skeptics or “unbelievers” to search for the truth on their own, not solely rely on man, whether it be someone on the pulpit or lay person like myself.
I’m not sure serpents can father children with humans. . .
Serpent is a characterization and one of the many adjectives of satan, not an actual snake. Can snakes talk? Of course not, but that is what we are taught, and that do not make it true. Study for yourself, rather than just dismiss this with sarcasm.
Stop it, Kamakula!
Thanks Sula, this kept me from going to the “Louisiana Black Snake” can pregnant a woman card.
I meant can make a woman “pragnant” .
As a long-time GA resident, New Birth (and mega-churches in general) have been in my peripheral as long as I’ve been here. My hs sweetheart was a PK via New Birth, and I have been indirectly privy to implications of *shadiness* regarding the institution (though, to be clear, not sexual). Suffice it to say, regardless of whether of not there is truth to the accusations, I’m not terribly shocked or interested, though the twisted (or perhaps calculated) irony of the matter is not lost on me.
Honestly, the only thing I truly care about with this is the collective and individual Christian African-American view on homosexuality and its legalities and whether or not any sort of real, logical discourse will come of this.
Sadly, I doubt it.
I know right! But coupled with views on homosexuality, there’s issue of uber-masculinity pushed upon young black men which leads to notions of male hyper-sexuality imagery (its ok for men to be promiscuous but not women).
Yep. That’s the thing that bothers me about this whole thing…a religious figure can choke his wife in public, in broad daylight…and that gets swept under the rug quick and fast. But let him have dalliances with young boys…and he’s a fallen hero. The whole prioritization of “sins” with a big ole heaping of patriarchy, hold the civil rights is old…and tired.
But I digress.
a religious figure can choke his wife in public, in broad daylight…and that gets swept under the rug quick and fast. But let him have dalliances with young boys…and he’s a fallen hero.
While I take issue with the first case presented, I have a more laid back approach because the person involved is generally an adult and the whole component of “influence” is not as present… So while I’ll be outraged all the same (I hate abusers of all kinds and stripes), I do think the second case needs to be talked about more because of that very “sphere of influence” that is often used to prey on younger people…
Let’s take the Juanita Bynum case… I was appalled like most people I know… but then again, the perpetrator was married within a year of his divorce being final… If this new wife is abused, I’m going to be honest and say that I’ll shrug my shoulders a little bit. I’ll be sad she was abused but I’ll be upset that she walked willingly into a marriage with a known (and convicted) woman beater.
the Biblical view and the cultural/social view of homosexuality can never be fully reconciled to live in complete harmony with each other.
First, to speak up as a black atheist, I can’t say this makes me foam at the mouth. All it really makes me do is shake my head, and go ‘I can totally see how that could happen.’
However, it brings me to the more important second time. This is bad for black gay men of all stripes. The real concern I have is that gay black men seem to have a whole hidden world ‘in the closet’ and when this type of ish get revealed it only seems to put them in disrepute. It’s a damn shame.
hi vsb-ers! i’m a first time commentator
bishop eddie long… i’m trying to remain as objective as possible in this situation but that seems to be hard for me since i cannot stand the man. something just seems intrinsically wrong with a man who makes his living off of those who are in need of spiritual giudance all so he can travel on private jets and preach sunday sermon off of his fresh new ipad. maybe i’m just jealous i don’t have an ipad. but i digress, i peeped his cockiness back on the first season of real housewives of atl (when it wasn’t the booty wackness that it is now). deshawn met with “bishop” long after church one sunday seeking guidance for putting together a successful fundraiser. he offered up a lunch with himself saying something like “why don’t you auction off a lunch with me? i’m sure that will generate a lot of money.” **douchebag sensory activated**… negro. please. aside of atl, you are nobody. you really need to relax.
as for the actual issue of child molestation, now that four boys have come out and more and threatening to, it’s very hard to believe it never went down. eddie long just seems like a big mess of jheri curl juice, underarmor, bad toupes and pinky rings. i feel like i’m going to throw up. ugghhhh.
and from what i saw of his sermon from this past sunday, he still never denied the allegations… he just kept spewing some ish about him getting through these trials and tribulations. eddie, cut the bull-ish.
How I heart the YouTube!
Here’s the video from In Living Color I mentioned earlier
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrpdkRU-rhE
Jim Carey has me dead. Ive watched this clip with my roommate and its been 10 mins of nothing but lols!
In a perfect world, if I were a single parent of a teen-aged male, the ideal mentor for him would be an influential, renowned man of God. However, the fact that this case is a replica of many others that have been publicized, I feel that there should be a more heightened awareness among parents. ANY man that inundates a minor with sumptuous gifts would definitely raise my suspicion. Given the prominence of this type of behavior among people (women inclusive) of leadership and authority, I believe it is the charge of those that are parents to be more attentive and less trusting to those that are seemingly rich in character and integrity. As stated by another constituent on the board, those are the ones that are more inclined to engage in this type of behavior because it is not something that is typically projected in them. This type of conduct should never be pardoned or justified despite there being lack of a criminal element. It is still a nauseating assault on the senses nonetheless. Once we become aware of a negative pattern, it’s our responsibility to break it. By no means am I absolving Bishop Wrong for his responsibility in this, but I don’t believe in becoming a victim after the fallout. The age of 16 may not be accompanied by the capacity for rational thought and reasoning. However, it is definitely an age where you can undoubtedly make the distinction between right and wrong and the decision to inform an adult. Some people are so galvanized by materialism, they will ignore bizarre behavior and red flags constantly being raised. In essence, I believe that Bishop Long isn’t the only person that should be held accountable for the things that allegedly transpired.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7E0jdyM498&feature=player_embedded
^I saw this and felt for this young man. How the news station just ambushed him was crazy, but I respect him answering the question and saying his piece.
Yes. This connected the way Longs obscure soundbites backed by cheers couldnt.
And I guess for the young men it didnt start at 16. It probably started by being “adopted” by the most respected and powerful man in a community (his church), then have Daddy break down the boundaries until your messed in the head and legal. This man is clever. But the solo holidays were dumb. How does a man with this schedule find time, not for solo jaunts with his wife but with young boys alone. High priority i guess.
The video is very telling and the young man appears to be scarred by what transpired between him and Eddie Long. I don’t know what happened but I do know for a straight man to come out and admit to engaging in sexual acts with another man in our society it is a big deal. So no I don’t think these young men are lying the ridicule and embarrassment and shame that they have to be experiencing from all of this coming out is not worth the publicity of such a lie.
LMAO @ The Rape Store
Very good points but something about that “curl” and that look in his eye just says something.